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Author Topic: George is Innocent  (Read 29553 times)
Scott McCumber
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« Reply #45 on: March 07, 2004, 03:43:40 am »


I decided to remove my post from this board. It will still remain on SWTE.

Scott-

I couldn't have expressed it more eloquently. Wink

Sarah,

I know.

S
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Scott McCumber
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« Reply #46 on: March 07, 2004, 03:56:55 am »


>On what grounds specifically would you like to file a suit? Are you paying for it to be filed? How much do you have to pitch in?

I sense a little sarcasm here. Did you really think that by verbally expressing our feelings on a tiny corner of the web would accomplish the agenda? Have you been emotionally or physically abused, mistreated, misguided, taken advantage of, controlled, etc while you were in the Assembly? Do you think you are the only one like that? If I may ask, how much of your own money you gave to GG's Assembly while you were in it? Would you not want to make sure that this time your money is well spent? Plus, if only what I read on the BB was true, I think we have a legitimate case against the exploit that occured. I believe we need to be united and talk about what our goal is. And I am convinced there will be enough people to testify...

areyougettingit


Not at all sarcastic. A legit question that has been bandied about for a year. Still waiting for a response that will work.

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you, you're just coming into the conversation a little late and preaching to the choir.

Open to suggestions, though we normally grant more credibility to those who can post their name. Again, the reasons for that have been discussed for over a year now, also.

Do a little more homework, friend. You're almost there.

Scott McCumber
« Last Edit: March 07, 2004, 04:12:27 am by Scott McCumber » Logged
Mark C.
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« Reply #47 on: March 07, 2004, 04:23:16 am »

Sounds crazy right?------  Some of you may say that that is silly spiritualism. Whatever.
   When I read comments like Mark C.’s, “What I was concerned about was posting of any links to the "Soaring site", where not only are teachings of the late great Witness Lee proffered , but also those who are expert at rending souls in their malacious jaws!” I am amazed. Do not others judge this tree by its fruit? Or are these vicious slanderings a “new” fruit of the Spirit which I have not heard of? The people on this bulletin board seem to go from under one “ego-maniac (G.G.)” that they complain about on a daily basis to submitting to the ideas of another group of ego-maniacs who want to filter what the others on their precious ABB experience.
   The ABB is exactly what we do not want to see happen in Iraq.    
   I am afraid that if people here do not start thinking for themselves and depending wholeheartedly on God to be able to show them the way into the promised land then, they will find themselves once again surrounded by pyramids. How could this happen?
   It is crucial who the innocents on the ABB are listening to.
  God places us in situations that we can walk away from with Him and have learned more about Who He IS. Or we can walk away but stay wandering and seeking out another person to lead us.
   The leader the children of Israel chose to direct their thoughts and actions were people that were giving direction from a point of hurt and fear instead of faith.
   So, I would encourage the “innocents” of the ABB to take responsibility for and be accountable for their actions that involved them with G.G. ministries. Understanding that there is no condemnation in Christ. Do not heed the messages that spew of pride, hate and hurt from the mouths of the ‘so-called’ wise (Tom, Delila ,Mark C., and Vern to name a few).
But rather in fullness of faith and with the help of the Holy Spirit be led in strength not looking back to the pillars of sand that lie in the past.
   Enter into the land that was promised you.  





  Hello SaraHoffe,

    I take it that you are upset with me.  As with Tom, I had trouble following your thinking, but it seems that you believe that I am some kind of leader here.  I am just one of a number of posters here who share our opinions on the Assembly.  We would have a better conversation if you were more specific with the issues that you disagree with me about.
   I believe that your main concerns were the things that I said about the "Soaring" site.  I do not read on the "Soaring" site, and so my "negative" comments were only re. the link that Brent provided in his post.  When Sondra posted on this BB she held teachings that were very similar (if not the same) to Witness lee which are clearly heretical.  I attempted to engage her in conversation and she refused all attempts at entreaty.
    I sense the influence of her postulations in your rambling post, and you even seem to sense that people might believe such thinking is crazy (see your quote above).  Where Matt is in all this I don't know, but it has been my personal experience that he is not only not honest, but is malacious; in other words he is a danger to those seeking recovery from the Assembly, and the Bible identifies these kinds of people as wolves.  Yes, he is just a pup in his wolf like ways, but if he continues on his present course I predict a full grown set of teeth.
   It is not "bringing condemnation, fear, and guilt" to identify evil and avoid it.  Paul was very strong in his condemnation of those who preached the false kind of spiritualism that Sondra proffers.  If you wish, we can have a specific discussion where we can talk about it in some detail and I can make clear to you why I say what I say above.
  You say, "God should lead us alone", what do you mean by that?
What exactly causes you to believe that I, along with others, are leading people by, "fear, guilt,etc." ? and, what do you mean by following the Lord in "the fullness of faith and with the help of the Holy Spirit?"  How does God do this for you and how can we follow your admonition to do so?
  Yes, it does seem "crazy" to me, and it does appear that you are following some kind of false "spiritualism", but "whatever" is a very poor response to what some wiser sense may be alerting you to when you made that comment.
  I wish you only to know the truth of the Gospel and the blessing of a true walk of faith with God.  Good clear Biblical thinking is the only solid foundation to attain this goal.  False spiritualism that believes in some inner sense to guide them is indeed only an "ego" experience based on one's emotions.
  At the least it is sensual, and at the worst it can be demonic.  I know as I have been there and done that! Cry   It led a good friend of mine into a psychiatric ward and eventually to rejecting any belief in God.
                                       God Bless,  Mark C.
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editor
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« Reply #48 on: March 07, 2004, 04:30:48 am »

>Who's we? Who are you? What's your agenda? Where have you been the last year?

We, the people that were emotionally scarred.
My name is not important. What matters is that I am on your side.
My agenda is what I wrote in the post: to make sure more innocent people will not be involved in this Assembly=CULT thing.
That is once again something that does not matter. Fyi: I have been doing my homework. I was not ready to speak out loud.

>Far as I can tell Brent has done about 90% of the work to bring down GG's ministry. Far as I know you have done 0%. When are you going to start? When you can sign your name?

I give a lot of credit to Brent and I applaude his efforts. I can only wish I did it myself. But the question remains would any of your efforts matter if the Assembly gets back up again and innocent souls get twisted? I think it is time for us to pull it together and fight back. We just have to stay focused and accomplish the agenda. What is our Agenda?

>On what grounds specifically would you like to file a suit? Are you paying for it to be filed? How much do you have to pitch in?

I sense a little sarcasm here. Did you really think that by verbally expressing our feelings on a tiny corner of the web would accomplish the agenda? Have you been emotionally or physically abused, mistreated, misguided, taken advantage of, controlled, etc while you were in the Assembly? Do you think you are the only one like that? If I may ask, how much of your own money you gave to GG's Assembly while you were in it? Would you not want to make sure that this time your money is well spent? Plus, if only what I read on the BB was true, I think we have a legitimate case against the exploit that occured. I believe we need to be united and talk about what our goal is. And I am convinced there will be enough people to testify...

areyougettingit

I'm quite interested.

email me.

Brent
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sfortescue
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« Reply #49 on: March 07, 2004, 04:31:16 am »

As for theories on who areyougettingit is, one possibility is that this might be a reappearance of Laurie / St. Louis sister.
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Scott McCumber
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« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2004, 04:43:24 am »

As for theories on who areyougettingit is, one possibility is that this might be a reappearance of Laurie / St. Louis sister.

It crossed my mind! And it wouldn't have to be that particular person. It could be someone similar. Or a random troll.

Ya never know! Wink

S
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Kimberley Tobin
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« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2004, 06:48:30 am »

Tom, Delila ,Mark C., and Vern (along with a couple others)
Honestly I hardly think it worth addressing these people. When I hear these people I feel like Jonah as I’m sure many on the SWTE board do. I think why God?? It would have been better to have died in a whales stomach than to listen and hear this mess from these people..
   One of the best things I think I ever heard God say in the Bible is when he admitted Himself that the people of Nineveh were stupid but that he still cared for their souls.  Anybody remember this (Calvinists lend ear).  God said to Jonah, “And should I not spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than six score thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?” These people were dumbies.
   But, like with Jonah, God continues to use people who would rather be doing something else with their lives to reach the lost and the stupid because God still cares.
   
   I attended a church for a number of years that was always taking special offerings to maintain the ministry. No, the money was not begged for but it was always asked for. At first I was giving every time they said there was a need sometimes without asking God what He wanted me to do. But I thought of course God wants me to give. Also, I saw everybody else giving and I did not want to appear stingy with my money. I asked God why is it that I give when it is asked for and I am not reaping any? The answer was simple. I was giving because man asked of me and not God. Also, because my emotions led my actions and not His Spirit.
   So, for a period of time I had to sit in the pews and pass the offering bucket because God was telling me not to give. Sounds crazy right? I sat there near the same people I had for years and passed the bucket. Seeing some friends give money that had less money than me. I went through the feelings of guilt. Every time I asked God  can I give now? And for a month the answer was no. Then at the end of a month I knew God told me “yes. You can give again but, remember to listen if it is Me asking it of You.”  Some of you may say that that is silly spiritualism. Whatever. We are suppose to be led of God. We are suppose to hear His voice. We are suppose to walk under his direction “to the left, to the right.” Since then I have experienced the blessing of sowing and reaping. This lesson was the purpose of my experience. I could have left there upset with my pastor for asking for money but I knew God had me where he wanted me at that time. God knows the tool to use and the method to produce results. That is if we are moldable.
   When I read comments like Mark C.’s, “What I was concerned about was posting of any links to the "Soaring site", where not only are teachings of the late great Witness Lee proffered , but also those who are expert at rending souls in their malacious jaws!” I am amazed. Do not others judge this tree by its fruit? Or are these vicious slanderings a “new” fruit of the Spirit which I have not heard of? The people on this bulletin board seem to go from under one “ego-maniac (G.G.)” that they complain about on a daily basis to submitting to the ideas of another group of ego-maniacs who want to filter what the others on their precious ABB experience.
   The ABB is exactly what we do not want to see happen in Iraq. The hoards of people being transferred from one legalistic abusive regime to another. But the fact of the matter is in the end the people of Iraq will be led by who they want to be led by. While those that saw the abuse and offered a way of escape can only in the end say that they tried to help them.
   The people on this ABB that are sincere in their search for truth ought “remember” not to dwell on the bondage they experienced in their Egypt experience. But rather they should remember the deliverance and the God who is Mighty to save that split the seas and released them into new territory. And remember the promise God gave concerning their future.   
   I am afraid that if people here do not start thinking for themselves and depending wholeheartedly on God to be able to show them the way into the promised land then, they will find themselves once again surrounded by pyramids. How could this happen?
   It is crucial who the innocents on the ABB are listening to.
Remember in Numbers 13 when Moses sent spies to search out the land of Canaan that God had given to His people.  When the spies came back to the camp they said yes the land is good  BUT, the people are strong that live there and they put fear in the hearts of the children of Israel. Caleb was the one to still the commotion and say “Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome!” When the people heard this it says in Numbers 14 that they cried and they remembered Egypt and the wilderness. Then they started saying “were it not better for us to return into Egypt?” And in verse 4 they said “ Let us make a captain, and let us return into Egypt”
   God places us in situations that we can walk away from with Him and have learned more about Who He IS. Or we can walk away but stay wandering and seeking out another person to lead us.
   The leader the children of Israel chose to direct their thoughts and actions were people that were giving direction from a point of hurt and fear instead of faith. The children of Israel wished more to speak of the past abuses of their Egyptian slave masters than to focus on their future promise. In the end God said these people that cried and were full of doubt based on their experiences would not see the promised land.
   Who would see the promised land? Caleb. Why? Numbers 14:24- “Because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed Me fully, him will I bring into the land wherein he went; and his seed shall possess it.”
   So, I would encourage the “innocents” of the ABB to take responsibility for and be accountable for their actions that involved them with G.G. ministries. Understanding that there is no condemnation in Christ. Do not heed the messages that spew of pride, hate and hurt from the mouths of the ‘so-called’ wise (Tom, Delila ,Mark C., and Vern to name a few).
But rather in fullness of faith and with the help of the Holy Spirit be led in strength not looking back to the pillars of sand that lie in the past.
   Enter into the land that was promised you.  





Dear Sarahhoffee,

I do not know much about Delilah, but I consider it an honor to be included on your list of bad guys with Mark C. and Verne. If being associated with such men is my worst failing...I'll count myself blessed.

However, it would be nice to know exactly what I am accused of, other than vague accusations about "spewing out hate and hurt".

Would you be so kind as to try to be specific?  Perhaps you could make a brief list of my transgressions?  I must confess I find your long treatise somewhat vague.  In fact, I can't understand it at all!

Perhaps, I am like the Ninevite "dumbies".  Most theologians think that this refers to children, not stupid people.  But then, I do not claim special enlightment from God.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux



Sarah,

Since you deleted your comment on this BB and yet others have quoted it and it still remains, I feel the need to comment.

You are the kind of person and reason I fled the assembly more than a year ago.   You are equating the people of this BB to that of "stupid" people (God never calls people "stupid", Sarah.)  He said, as you quoted, that they cannot discern their right hand from their left.  That is not calling people "stupid".  Your ilk makes me want to vomit (reminiscent of the Laodecian church)!  I absolutely can tell my left hand from my right, finally, after leaving the assembly.  I have not exchanged one idol (ie GG and his LB's) for another (ie Brent or Mark or Verne or, you fill in the blank.)  I have finally given my complete loyalty to the Lord Jesus Christ, and NO MAN, is going to lead me down the primrose path ever again, including the likes of you and your aunt.  You at the SWTE site say you distance yourself from GG and stand against his teaching and yet you spew the same filth that I received in my fifteen years in the assembly.  GOOD RIDANCE!

Who are you to start bringing in your metaphors of the bible (ie egypt and being delivered from our bondage, etc) and equating that to what is going on here on this BB? You are RIDICULOUS!  The people here are simply here to discuss what they experienced in the assembly, to dialogue about it, to heal from it and yes, to move forward in their lives.  You MAKE ME SICK!  You use examples from the Old Testament and equate that to what is going on here on this BB to make people feel guily about where they're at and to make them feel like they are just like the Israelites God led out of Egypt.  You are A WOLF IN SHEEPS CLOTHING.  CUT FROM THE SAME CLOTH AS THE LEADERS IN THE ASSEMBLY.  We don't want your kind of "encouragement" here.  Go to your SWTE site and spew your filth there.  We're here, thinking for ourselves, and yes, identifying the abuse we suffered under a CULT and helping one another in the healing process.  We don't need your kind here spewing the kind of filth you spew!
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delila
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« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2004, 06:48:58 am »

Tom, Delila ,Mark C., and Vern (along with a couple others)
Honestly I hardly think it worth addressing these people. When I hear these people I feel like Jonah as I’m sure many on the SWTE board do. I think why God?? It would have been better to have died in a whales stomach than to listen and hear this mess from these people..
   One of the best things I think I ever heard God say in the Bible is when he admitted Himself that the people of Nineveh were stupid but that he still cared for their souls.  Anybody remember this (Calvinists lend ear).  God said to Jonah, “And should I not spare Nineveh, that great city, wherein are more than six score thousand persons that cannot discern between their right hand and their left hand; and also much cattle?” These people were dumbies.
   But, like with Jonah, God continues to use people who would rather be doing something else with their lives to reach the lost and the stupid because God still cares.
   
   I attended a church for a number of years that was always taking special offerings to maintain the ministry. No, the money was not begged for but it was always asked for. At first I was giving every time they said there was a need sometimes without asking God what He wanted me to do. But I thought of course God wants me to give. Also, I saw everybody else giving and I did not want to appear stingy with my money. I asked God why is it that I give when it is asked for and I am not reaping any? The answer was simple. I was giving because man asked of me and not God. Also, because my emotions led my actions and not His Spirit.
   So, for a period of time I had to sit in the pews and pass the offering bucket because God was telling me not to give. Sounds crazy right? I sat there near the same people I had for years and passed the bucket. Seeing some friends give money that had less money than me. I went through the feelings of guilt. Every time I asked God  can I give now? And for a month the answer was no. Then at the end of a month I knew God told me “yes. You can give again but, remember to listen if it is Me asking it of You.”  Some of you may say that that is silly spiritualism. Whatever. We are suppose to be led of God. We are suppose to hear His voice. We are suppose to walk under his direction “to the left, to the right.” Since then I have experienced the blessing of sowing and reaping. This lesson was the purpose of my experience. I could have left there upset with my pastor for asking for money but I knew God had me where he wanted me at that time. God knows the tool to use and the method to produce results. That is if we are moldable.
   When I read comments like Mark C.’s, “What I was concerned about was posting of any links to the "Soaring site", where not only are teachings of the late great Witness Lee proffered , but also those who are expert at rending souls in their malacious jaws!” I am amazed. Do not others judge this tree by its fruit? Or are these vicious slanderings a “new” fruit of the Spirit which I have not heard of? The people on this bulletin board seem to go from under one “ego-maniac (G.G.)” that they complain about on a daily basis to submitting to the ideas of another group of ego-maniacs who want to filter what the others on their precious ABB experience.
   The ABB is exactly what we do not want to see happen in Iraq. The hoards of people being transferred from one legalistic abusive regime to another. But the fact of the matter is in the end the people of Iraq will be led by who they want to be led by. While those that saw the abuse and offered a way of escape can only in the end say that they tried to help them.
   The people on this ABB that are sincere in their search for truth ought “remember” not to dwell on the bondage they experienced in their Egypt experience. But rather they should remember the deliverance and the God who is Mighty to save that split the seas and released them into new territory. And remember the promise God gave concerning their future.   
   I am afraid that if people here do not start thinking for themselves and depending wholeheartedly on God to be able to show them the way into the promised land then, they will find themselves once again surrounded by pyramids. How could this happen?
   It is crucial who the innocents on the ABB are listening to.
Remember in Numbers 13 when Moses sent spies to search out the land of Canaan that God had given to His people.  When the spies came back to the camp they said yes the land is good  BUT, the people are strong that live there and they put fear in the hearts of the children of Israel. Caleb was the one to still the commotion and say “Let us go up at once, and possess it; for we are well able to overcome!” When the people heard this it says in Numbers 14 that they cried and they remembered Egypt and the wilderness. Then they started saying “were it not better for us to return into Egypt?” And in verse 4 they said “ Let us make a captain, and let us return into Egypt”
   God places us in situations that we can walk away from with Him and have learned more about Who He IS. Or we can walk away but stay wandering and seeking out another person to lead us.
   The leader the children of Israel chose to direct their thoughts and actions were people that were giving direction from a point of hurt and fear instead of faith. The children of Israel wished more to speak of the past abuses of their Egyptian slave masters than to focus on their future promise. In the end God said these people that cried and were full of doubt based on their experiences would not see the promised land.
   Who would see the promised land? Caleb. Why? Numbers 14:24- “Because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed Me fully, him will I bring into the land wherein he went; and his seed shall possess it.”
   So, I would encourage the “innocents” of the ABB to take responsibility for and be accountable for their actions that involved them with G.G. ministries. Understanding that there is no condemnation in Christ. Do not heed the messages that spew of pride, hate and hurt from the mouths of the ‘so-called’ wise (Tom, Delila ,Mark C., and Vern to name a few).
But rather in fullness of faith and with the help of the Holy Spirit be led in strength not looking back to the pillars of sand that lie in the past.
   Enter into the land that was promised you.  





Dear Sarahhoffee,

I do not know much about Delilah, but I consider it an honor to be included on your list of bad guys with Mark C. and Verne. If being associated with such men is my worst failing...I'll count myself blessed.

However, it would be nice to know exactly what I am accused of, other than vague accusations about "spewing out hate and hurt".

Would you be so kind as to try to be specific?  Perhaps you could make a brief list of my transgressions?  I must confess I find your long treatise somewhat vague.  In fact, I can't understand it at all!

Perhaps, I am like the Ninevite "dumbies".  Most theologians think that this refers to children, not stupid people.  But then, I do not claim special enlightment from God.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux



I don't know much about Thomas Maddux, but I don't mind being included in front of the firing squad with him.

Cheers Tom!

delila
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delila
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« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2004, 06:56:32 am »

My dear friend Kimberly,

I've finally figured out how to edit my bloopers.  Not that I'm going to now go through every post and do that, but I'm fixing this one:

Kimberly, if this helps, I'm glad.  If not, that's okay too.  Here it is:  Anything that comes off the 'soaring' site can be dealt with in a manner that disturbs not our own blood pressure.  Here's how, and you'll have to use a bit of imagination here.  It involves some visualization and such, and I know that such terms bother many.  So I'll use a simple comparison: spews from the soaring site are very much the same as the sound that might come from a room full of popcorn farts.  The effect is also similar, but the meaning, well... that's similar too.  I apologize for the the vulgar comparison... no, I don't.

'nough said.

drj

 
 
« Last Edit: March 07, 2004, 05:22:25 pm by delila » Logged
Andrea Denner
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« Reply #54 on: March 07, 2004, 09:38:17 am »

My opinion is that areyougettingit is a fake poster.  Fake posters have a certain bent to them.  Just a little too far over the edge, and of course will not identify themselves.

Just a word from someone who has been right about all of the other fake posters.

Andrea Denner

I still don't like fake posters!!!
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areyougettingit
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« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2004, 01:38:32 pm »

   Everyone out there, are we ready to take the next step or you guys are going to concentrate on figuring out who this mysteriuos poster is? One thing is for sure, I am not fake. And perhaps one day you will be thankful that I came along. Take my advice do not waste your time figuring out who I am. Should you decide to keep guessing go ahead. I keep entertaining myself with it.

   For those who are wishing to brainstorm with me feel free to express your ideas on the BB or send me a quick note. For example we need to know how many of us are having inside knowledge of legal processes. How many of us are able to and willing to dig into cases that were filed based on similar cult issues. We need to research the best attorney in town to help us win the case. Let's not waste more time, we have to act asap especially before regrouping. Remember, the key is to stay focused on accomplishing the agenda. Once again my question is: WHAT IS OUR AGENDA? WHAT ARE WE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH HERE?

areyougettingit?
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delila
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« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2004, 05:23:36 pm »

I find it hard to reason with a clown in a mask.
drj
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Kimberley Tobin
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« Reply #57 on: March 08, 2004, 12:01:23 am »

Areyougettingit?

I don't know, are you getting it?  Why would we divulge to someone who will not acknowledge themselves, a plan, agenda, etc. (if we had one, I'm not saying anyone here DOES)?   Roll Eyes

You have got to be kidding?  While what you say may have some merit, ie, I wouldn't mind some of these leaders being prosecuted, etc., however, do you really think we would discuss this with someone who chooses to remain anonymous?  What turnip truck do you think we fell off of?  It is almost humerous.  Really, I could care less who you are.  But if you want to remain anonymous, I would suggest you stop asking publicly what people's plans are.  You are laughable!
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editor
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« Reply #58 on: March 08, 2004, 01:11:40 am »

Areyougettingit?

I don't know, are you getting it?  Why would we divulge to someone who will not acknowledge themselves, a plan, agenda, etc. (if we had one, I'm not saying anyone here DOES)?   Roll Eyes

You have got to be kidding?  While what you say may have some merit, ie, I wouldn't mind some of these leaders being prosecuted, etc., however, do you really think we would discuss this with someone who chooses to remain anonymous?  What turnip truck do you think we fell off of?  It is almost humerous.  Really, I could care less who you are.  But if you want to remain anonymous, I would suggest you stop asking publicly what people's plans are.  You are laughable!

You've never met me, and you don't know who I am, but I have two million dollars that I need to deposit in a US back account, and your name was given to me as a person with business integrity.

I need you to open an account with 1000.00 in it, then I will deposit 2,000,000.00 into it.  After ten days, I will withdraw 900,000.00 and you can keep the rest for your trouble.

Please give me the account number, routing number, and SWIFT code as soon as you open the account.  Don't worry about my name.....just think of the money.

Any takers?

Brent
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editor
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« Reply #59 on: March 08, 2004, 01:54:14 am »

http://www.soaringwiththeeagles.com/yabbse/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=159;start=0#msg533

You just don't know when to stop, do you?

At this point I still have to be a little vague, but soon I will be able to say more.

I spoke with one or more people, one of which is a professor at a law school.  

There are signed, detailed, explicit, x-rated statements signed by the women, in possesion of a person, whose name we all know.

I was assured by one or more people, one of whom is a professor at a law school, that not only are the charges true, and heinous,  but that if George decided to sue me for libel,  he would lose because at least one of the women would testify in person.

The signed statements could also come into play.

What I really want is a brief statement by one of the Fullerton leaders who spoke with the women, and I am working on that.

However,  in the mean time,  I have satisfied myself that the charges are true---I knew it all along---and that at least one of the women would speak if necessary.

In poker you can do one of 5 things with your cards:

Check
Call
Bet
Raise
Fold

You fold when you know you have lost, and don't want to lose yet more money.

You check if you need more cards to make your hand, and you hope to get them for free, or at least for cheap.  You can also check if you know you have the winning hand, and that your opponent thinks he has the winning hand, in order to induce a bet from them, in which case you check-raise.  (you have four 2's,  and they have Aces full of twos.)  This is called sandbagging, or slowplaying, and it is a way to milk money from your opponents without scarring them away.

You call if you want to see the next card, or you want to see their cards, but don't want to spend any more money by betting or raising.  Calling is appropriate when you don't have much confidence and want to pick off a bluff.

Betting is done to:
get more money in the pot
drive people out of the hand
bluff
gain information
Usually, betting involves more than one of the above.

Raising means betting more money after someone else has bet.
Raising is done to:
get more money in the pot when you know you have the best hand
pick off a bluffer
Get people to check to you in a later round, thus getting a more expensive card for free.
Bluffing.

I didn't fold.
I didn't bluff
What I did was check raise/sandbag.

I knew all along that the charges were true...but I didn't have the confidence that they could be substantiated due to the reluctance of the "women."  Now I know different.

I also knew that Matt was bluffing when he said,  "Brent could have made it all up."

I did no such thing, and had he read about the events on January 18th, 2003, he would have known that the excommunication of George was a seperate event that took place in Fullerton entirely without my input.  Not only did I not make it up,  I had little to do with it.

Similarly to when you accused me of stealing money from a collection for Judy,  you have suggested that I made up the Adultery stuff.

You came out betting on this post, but it is a bluff.  I know the names, and I know I can count on the truth being told if needed.  I have also been assured that there is no possible way George could bring a lawsuit against me on this matter because it would destroy him, utterly.

So, I sandbagged, you bluffed, I raised, you called......and I won.  I also knew that in doing so I would flush out some other things that were going on, which I did.

George is guilty.  Period.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I know this is going to anger you,  but Matt's post in which he suggests that I made this all up is right up there with inventing a collection for Judy and me skimming 15 grand off the top!  It never happened, and you were shown to have been entirely wrong on every count.

I called your bluff then, and won.

Same as this time.

It really happened, and the suggestion that it didn't is reasonable, in light of the silence.  However,  to say that I made it up is totally unreasonable, which is why I did what I did.

I was really enjoying our discussion on Deeper Life stuff, and I am willing to go back to that under the sole condition that you do not delete this post.

I am anwering your questions here, and to delete it would be quite dishonest.

Brent



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