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Author Topic: George is Rebuilding his house  (Read 75237 times)
Peacefulg
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« Reply #135 on: February 29, 2004, 10:48:15 am »

Mark, I kind of see what your are saying in regards to the "cult" people that you talked to.  My question though is this, even though their leader justified their own evil, did they ever speak evil or condem others who did the same thing?

There are multiple times that not only LBs but George talked bad about leaders in other places that commited sexual sins (i.e., David Hockings, etc.).  That being the case people could see that these sins were wrong.  The bible is so clear on these issues and I never heard it preached at one time that sex outside of marriage is ok in the Assembly let only read it in the word.  

I admit I do not know what I would do if I was one of these women, on one had the tremedous guilt that I let people continue in this ministry knowing what was going on, yet on the other hand I would pray that the thought of standing before God with all this on my heart, mind, and soul would cause me to fall on my face before a God who loves me and cares me, and is willing to forgive me no matter what ANYONE may say.

Is your all on the alter of scarfice laid?

Peace
G
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Oscar
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« Reply #136 on: February 29, 2004, 01:34:07 pm »

Folks,

Regarding the idea that GG would be "brought down" if the women who were involved with him would just come forward...I'm not so sure.

GG was disciplined by a Plymouth Brethren assembly many years ago.  I believe that what happened was that the woman admitted the adultry, and GG stubbornly denied it.

There was even a confrontation between GG and the offended husband.  

I heard part of the story from GG himself, (with no admission of guilt, of course, he claimed he had been wronged), and part of it from a couple of other people who were close enough to observe some of the events.

I think that this is why GG was never recognized as an elder in the PB assemblies.

Nevertheless, GG was able to escape from the most serious consequences by persisting in his denials...and after a few years some assemblies began receiving ministry from him again.

Now he is doing it again.  It worked in the past.  He is counting on the fact that some people will follow him in spite of everything.  

Sadly, I suspect that he is right.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux
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editor
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« Reply #137 on: February 29, 2004, 08:48:06 pm »

And Brent, though this does a number on your blood pressure.... God is still in control.  I believe that, though I see assembly wrongs all around me that are not yet righted.  God is in control.
delila

Yes, you are quite right.

Actually, this fact is what keeps my blood pressure under control.  That is why I say, like Caleb,  "let us go up, for we are well able to defeat them." Not his exact words, but similiar.

Brent
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Scott McCumber
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« Reply #138 on: February 29, 2004, 08:48:43 pm »

Folks,

Regarding the idea that GG would be "brought down" if the women who were involved with him would just come forward...I'm not so sure.

GG was disciplined by a Plymouth Brethren assembly many years ago.  I believe that what happened was that the woman admitted the adultry, and GG stubbornly denied it.

There was even a confrontation between GG and the offended husband.  

I heard part of the story from GG himself, (with no admission of guilt, of course, he claimed he had been wronged), and part of it from a couple of other people who were close enough to observe some of the events.

I think that this is why GG was never recognized as an elder in the PB assemblies.

Nevertheless, GG was able to escape from the most serious consequences by persisting in his denials...and after a few years some assemblies began receiving ministry from him again.

Now he is doing it again.  It worked in the past.  He is counting on the fact that some people will follow him in spite of everything.  

Sadly, I suspect that he is right.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

Of course no one can know for sure until it happens. I don't think that relieves anyone of their responsibility to try.

Besides, at 76 years old, a setback could be just as fatal to George's ministry as a killing blow.

S
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editor
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« Reply #139 on: February 29, 2004, 10:56:56 pm »

Folks,

Regarding the idea that GG would be "brought down" if the women who were involved with him would just come forward...I'm not so sure.

GG was disciplined by a Plymouth Brethren assembly many years ago.  I believe that what happened was that the woman admitted the adultry, and GG stubbornly denied it.

There was even a confrontation between GG and the offended husband.  

I heard part of the story from GG himself, (with no admission of guilt, of course, he claimed he had been wronged), and part of it from a couple of other people who were close enough to observe some of the events.

I think that this is why GG was never recognized as an elder in the PB assemblies.

Nevertheless, GG was able to escape from the most serious consequences by persisting in his denials...and after a few years some assemblies began receiving ministry from him again.

Now he is doing it again.  It worked in the past.  He is counting on the fact that some people will follow him in spite of everything.  

Sadly, I suspect that he is right.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

Hi Tom,

Yes, George was disciplined for the same behavior a few times in his PB and pre-PB days.  The reason he was able to get away with it is because the PB guys basically said, "Well, George is a bad guy and we don't want him around.  However, what anyone does is their own business.  We aren't going to trouble ourselves about it, but if anyone calls us about him, we'll give vague references that suggest that he may have done something wrong.  However, the best course for us is to not rock the boat too much."

In the Assembly, we learned to excuse his arrogance and abusive tactics by reminding ourselves that God chose Him for a special ministry, namely a Testimony to Jesus.  The cultists in the SF ASsembly are referring to themselves as being the Remnant.  I guess they are the remnant of the remnant, which means they are extra special.

George is escaping the temporal consequences of his actions for one reason only; no one is holding him accountable.

This is not an attack on his victims, neither is it speech designed to berate anyone, it is a simple statement of fact.  George defiled and destroyed several women, and countless of his followers.  He has offended God's little lambs hundreds of times, and will have a millstone the size of Mt. Rushmore hung around his neck.  

Nevertheless the fact remains that he is getting away with it because those that can speak up aren't doing so.

I am not going to "out" these women.  I never intended to do so, and will not be changing my mind in the future.

It is up to them, whether or not they will speak out or not.

Again, my whole point in this discussion is that those who complain against George's rebuilding are for the most part only complaining, and are doing little or nothing else.  George is not going to be held accountable by private conversations and sincere expressions of hope and prayer sent via email and phone calls.  It didn't work before and it won't work now.

However, my frustration is that I do know what will work, but I am not the one to do it.

This is merely a suggestion.

There are several ex-leaders who are on this BB..  From what I can gather, they have been very clear about George and his ministry, and have been willing to speak the truth one on one, to people who will listen.

However, they haven't made much of a public apology for what they were involved in.  Remember all those LB and Worker's meetings?  Remember all the horrible things that were said, and the even worse actions that were done as a result?

The nature of the ministry was such that LB's and Workers knew what guys like Testa, McCallister, and Tim were like, and what they said in private to manipulate situations.  These things need to be exposed and brought to light.  The website is the place to do it.  This would be a huge, gigantic help.  For example, I cite Kirk C's writings.  They allowed people in SLO to actually believe what I was saying, because before Kirk wrote, the SLO people just repeated the mantra,  "Brent is a liar.  It is the Enemy's voice.  Brent is a liar. It is the Enemy's voice."

Perhaps someone in San Francisco will read the story of a former LB from San Diego,  a person they once repsected, and upon realizing the machinations done by Testa, will begin to break free.

Perhaps, people, upon reading the story of one of George's sexual victims, will have the lights turn on, and will realize that the victims told the leaders, and the leaders ignored them in order to protect their own pathetic little fiefdoms.

Even better, perhaps their stories will reveal that some of the little George's have been emulating their master in more ways than manner of speech and abusive control.  Perhaps some of them have had some "counseling," with sisters that is innapropriate.  There is every reason to suspect that if it hasn't happened already, it will happen in the future.  These people are predictable, after all.

Like Mark said below, Child Molestation was covered up in the SF Valley.  Could it have occured elsewhere?  Of course!  The whole thing is sick, and full of sick people.

Here is the blueprint for an Atomic Bomb.

My name is ___________

I am one of the women who was involved in an improper sexual relationship with George Geftakys.

Without going into great detail, here are the facts___________________.

I didn't say anything until  ---/---/---, because I am a victim of what is called Clergy Abuse.  Although I wanted to sue him, I can't because of ____________.

I am telling my story so that this doesn't happen again, and someone else doesn't have to experience the pain that I am.  

Not only George, but these other followers of his are also  predators.  (Testa, McCallister, perhaps some others)  I told them what happened, and they heard from the people who excommunicated George what happened, but they won't hear it.  They act exactly like George, which is frightening, because George is like this________.

I want to do everything I can to get people away from this cult,  and see those that are involved break free.


Again, this is a blueprint.  Others have the plutonium, I don't.  But I do know how to make the bomb.  

Those that remain in the Assembly, and those who are drifting back into it, Like Jeff Lehmkuhl, are repeating the Mantra,  "The stuff on the website is mostly lies.  That is not God's way.  We never followed George.  Those that left were following a man, but we were following Christ." "The stuff on the website is mostly lies.  That is not God's way.  We never followed George.  Those that left were following a man, but we were following Christ."  "The stuff on the website is mostly lies.  That is not God's way.  We never followed George.  Those that left were following a man, but we were following Christ."  "The stuff on the website is mostly lies.  That is not God's way.  We never followed George.  Those that left were following a man, but we were following Christ."

Again, I am not coercing or trying to force someone to do something they aren't ready for.  I am merely stating the facts of why George is still at it, and why his sychophants are still at it.  Those that can do something aren't.

Their reasons for not doing so are their own.

Brent
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Mark Kisla
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« Reply #140 on: February 29, 2004, 10:58:53 pm »

Dan---

Your post is interesting. I recall circa 1974-1975 when
I first attended the Assembly that a group of people were outside holding signs which read "Beware Shepherd George!!" I asked what the commotion was and was told that they were "disgruntled ex-members".

I accepted that and continued to attend. I'm not sure what good holding up signs will do, maybe it will help. But it amazes me how history repeats itself.

--Joe
Could you imagine if the internet was available at this time for these "disgrunted ex-members" to use, many future members would have never given George the time of day because his credability would be called into question.

I wish George could have been exposed decades ago
« Last Edit: March 01, 2004, 06:21:14 am by Mark Kisla » Logged
Mark C.
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« Reply #141 on: February 29, 2004, 11:21:01 pm »

Good Sunday Morning! Smiley

    My point is not "what" these women should do, we all agree that it would be great if they could stand up and tell their story (for them and for others), but are they able to do so.
    As an example of what I mean:  Some people have an unreasonable fear of flying (a phobia).  We, who don't have this terror of flying, can despise these folks for reacting in such an unreasonable manner and tell them to "just face their fear and 'overcome' it! ( I use that word "overcome" with intent to draw my Assembly analogy Wink)  Such individuals have an overwhelming emotional reaction that prevents them from involvement in flying as sure as if we physically imprisoned them from getting on the plane!  Coach John Madden still takes the train on all his travels in the U.S.A., because of the high level of anxiety he experiences while flying; it prevents him from flying!
   One thing Christians often forget and that is we are human, though redeemed.  In Rom. 7 Paul discusses the inner conflict he experienced as a believer where he knows what is right to do, but found that he often did what was wrong anyway.  He said there was a "law in his members" (a principle within his humanity) that held him captive.
  GG, and cult leaders, were very profficient at taking advantage of the above human weakness and manipulating individuals into doing things that they never would have done on their own.  I suffered from great anxiety when I left the Assembly (nightmares, a feeling of impending doom, etc.), as for 20 years my mind was controlled via the false holiness message of GG and the belief that the Assembly was "God's govt. on Earth."
   After leaving I began to understand that what I was taught was wrong, but GG and the Assembly still controlled me via the unreasonable phobia I felt.  It still affects me to this day (12 years later) where I have difficulty in interacting socially with other Christians.  I feel much more comfort from just staying at home and avoiding my anticipation of anxiety that comes from going to church.
  I am reminded of the discussion we had on depression a while back where several sufferers of this condition helped us to understand a feeling that controlled them and why someone couldn't counsel a depressed person out of that feeling that mastered their attitudes and behaviors.  These depressed individuals were literally in a prison, not of their own making, but often those who don't suffer from this can't understand why, because we don't see the bars that hold them.
  Marcia's question for me, re. the woman caught in adultery and some post GG Assemblyites:  We do have to make some distinctions between "these women" whom I consider victims of GG's brainwashing vs. former leading brothers who still seek to defend GG's evil empire (in part or whole).  There are some of these former leaders who may seem very weak in their stand against GG and his teaching, but have made small steps in the right direction.  These we must gently encourage and seek to help.  There are others who are headed in the opposite direction who refuse to discuss these things.  We must be very straightforward and clear with both of these kinds of individuals (Brent's point ,and a very good one, and which has been a great help to me and to many others), but we want to help those taking the small steps in the right direction to overcome their overwhelming reluctance to face their unreasonable fears/weakness.
   Eventually, those that seek therapy for phobias will have to get on a plane and face their fear, but it usually takes outside help and time to bring an individual to make the right decision.  Jesus understood the social/human dynamics between the false religious leaders and the Woman caught in adultery.  He called her act sin, but did not condemn her; while he did bring condemnation upon those that hauled the women in to receive "justice."  When we recognize that Jesus understands our sinful and weak humanity, and went to the cross for just that purpose, we discover the way to inner moral strength (the kind of strength that acts courageously in the face of our fears) is not by trying to find the will to conquer our humanity, but the humble acceptance that we are just as human as the guy on the bus next to us--- because we are saved does not mean we escape from who we are, in all our predispositions and learned habits.
 Though I am not saying that the Christian life is a futile passivity in the face of my inevitable fallen state.  The Bible teaches that we are to fight against the sin in us, but we need to find a place of strength in which to make that stand.  To the former Assemblyite they have had the rug pulled out from under them and there is little to no understanding of the Gospel and the nature of the Christian life as lived under grace.  They know all of these phrases, i.e. grace, the love of God, etc., but see (and feel) these things as they understood them from GG.
   It would seem that the story of JN 8 illustrates that all humanity is weak and sinful, but that there are those who find salvation when confronted with their sin and those who find condemnation.  There will be those who leave the Assembly who will find mercy and grace to face their sin/weakness/deception, and those who reject the light of truth and stay in a state of denial.  For the former we need to strengthen them in the knowledge of "no condemnation in Christ" and to the latter clearly and publically announce that they are walking in darkness. (Jude 1:22-23)
                                   God Bless,  Mark C.  

 
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Scott McCumber
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« Reply #142 on: February 29, 2004, 11:22:47 pm »

Does this sound familiar?

"Church records have revealed stories of many other repeat abusers, including priests who traded drugs for sex with minors, fathered children, and physically assaulted their victims. In the case of almost every predator priest, church officials had reports of abusive behavior, but allowed the priests to remain in ministry, documents show. In many cases, accused priests were sent for brief periods of psychological evaluation, then returned to parishes -- where they abused again."

Here is the source:

http://www.boston.com/globe/spotlight/abuse/predators/

The situation is not exactly the same but the PATTERN OF ABUSE is universal.

S
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editor
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« Reply #143 on: March 01, 2004, 12:23:02 am »

My advice is that we stop this discussion right now.

We have no proof that there are any women.  

Whether they exist at all is debateable.  If they won't talk, we haven't a leg to stand on.  This is all the worst sort of hearsay.

Seriously, this just dawned on me today.  We have no proof at all that there ever were any women.  

I won't be saying another word about this.

Brent
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moonflower2
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« Reply #144 on: March 01, 2004, 12:33:59 am »

And Bathsheba's first child by King David was really conceived by immaculate conception. Seriously.  Wink
« Last Edit: March 01, 2004, 04:26:04 am by moonflower2 » Logged
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