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Author Topic: George is Innocent  (Read 29932 times)
Scott McCumber
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« Reply #15 on: March 03, 2004, 08:45:40 am »


  I am also in agreement with Lucas that when we only focus on GG's adultery we are trivilizing the real problems with the Assembly and really missing the point.  This was not just an issue of a church with a messed up Pastor!                                       God Bless,  Mark C.

Hi, Mark,

I think that when people believe that Brent is merely trying to prove that George was an adulterer are missing the point and trivializing what he is trying to do.

You are correct, proving GG's adultery just for the sake of proving it may only effect a small number of fence-sitters and skeptics and won't make the abuses of the Assembly itself any worse.

However, I think Brent is trying to strike a serious blow to the Assembly's drive to rebuild (no need to continue to refer to it as the 'former Assembly', etc.). Much of the impetus to rebuild is based on the perceived lack of credibility in regards to the accusations against George.

I don't know how effective this proof would be and I doubt that Brent believes it will be the killing blow, but I do know that Brent 1) has some experience in this arena, 2) understands the importance of body blows in a brawl and 3) is in this for the long haul.

Again, there is more at stake with this than just "proving" GG had affairs.

S
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jesusfreak
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« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2004, 05:41:55 am »

2) Or perhaps all the 'people' (besides those from this board who journey out to 'reason' with the soaring group) on the soaring site are really just one guy (named Luke or something posing as one of the twelve) posting in the name of several other people to try and build a cyber army against the truth.

Haha, I like this one - but do I really exist? Huh  Huh  Roll Eyes  

Quite honestly, there is much that is stated on that forum which I personally do not agree with.  However, if I were to allow this to govern whom I choose to spend time discussing issues with, I would hardly ever talk to anyone Wink

As far as what is said on there.....I would prefer the existence of such places to be allowed, than for them to be completely outlawed.  Wouldn't you?  Be thankful we share the freedom toward this end, even if the responsibility it demands may be lacking.

--
lucas
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mithrandir
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« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2004, 07:22:03 am »

I'll be blunt and to the point.  

First, although the facts of George's adultery add to the body of evidence proving his evil, there are plenty of other facts which also prove the evil of George and of the system he created.  Believe me, there are plenty of stories out there of people who were mistreated by George and by his worthless, emasculated poser cronies.  I know stories from people who could testify to being abused while living in the homes of some of these wretched men.  Yes, Sterling Bennett and Jack Hanson, I've got your number.  But I am not going to post those stories, because I wasn't in your homes when you were dishing it out.  I do, however, know my story.  

And that brings me to my second point.  I have said before, more than once, that the first proof of repentance on the part of an abuser is a willingness to go to the people he's wronged, and to admit that he screwed up.  I know my own story.  And I know that the memory of that story has filled me with intense anger at times over the last year.  I know how it has felt to be treated like trash by people who thought they were sooo important.  And I know that not one of them has said anything to me that sounded like repentance.  Instead, I've heard what can only be described as terminal silliness when I've run into some of these people.  Things like, "Brother! Haven't seen you in a while.  We thought you might have come back, that you were standing at the door again!"  Or, "Brother, are you encouraged?"  When I've told these people that my spiritual condition is none of their business, and that, no, I'm never coming back to the Assembly, that it's a damnable cult, they have asked, "What? You don't believe in the New Testament pattern?"  Get this straight: I didn't leave because of some "pattern of worship."  I left because the assemblies of George Geftakys are abusive places run by jerks.  I think about the unwillingness of the  leaders to repent and to make things right with people like me, and sometimes I just have to remember that vengeance belongs to God and not man.

But now for my third point.  If anyone needs any convincing as to the evil of the existing assemblies and the jerks who lead them, feel free to get in touch with me.  I'll be much more than happy to tell you all of my experiences with this group.  I will name names.  I will be very specific.  If that doesn't convince you, then I don't think anything can convince you.

Clarence Thompson
« Last Edit: March 05, 2004, 07:36:54 am by Clarence Thompson » Logged
delila
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« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2004, 09:52:04 am »

2) Or perhaps all the 'people' (besides those from this board who journey out to 'reason' with the soaring group) on the soaring site are really just one guy (named Luke or something posing as one of the twelve) posting in the name of several other people to try and build a cyber army against the truth.

Haha, I like this one - but do I really exist? Huh  Huh  Roll Eyes  

Quite honestly, there is much that is stated on that forum which I personally do not agree with.  However, if I were to allow this to govern whom I choose to spend time discussing issues with, I would hardly ever talk to anyone Wink

As far as what is said on there.....I would prefer the existence of such places to be allowed, than for them to be completely outlawed.  Wouldn't you?  Be thankful we share the freedom toward this end, even if the responsibility it demands may be lacking.

--
lucas

Lucas:
Thanks for knocking some of the fluff out of my conspiracy theory.  Yes, they exist, these places, and no wonder... in a world where one can pay to have just about any body part pierced.  And you, kind sir, exist, really.  That's refreshing.  Just curious though: how do you feel when you return from such a place? I was there for such a short time (seconds) but I left with a belly ache.

delila  
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delila
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« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2004, 10:06:31 am »

Yes Clarence, and why did you not name names?  I think that if you did, your testimony would carry more weight.  Let's name names.  What are people afraid of?

delila
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editor
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« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2004, 12:12:04 pm »

Yes Clarence, and why did you not name names?  I think that if you did, your testimony would carry more weight.  Let's name names.  What are people afraid of?

delila

I like you Delila!   Smiley

Exactly, what are we afraid of?  I never could understand anonymous posters, and such.  Also, Clarence isn't afraid....but your point is well taken.  Names, both our own and those of whom we speak, add weight.

Discretion is assumed.

Brent
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Mark C.
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« Reply #21 on: March 05, 2004, 04:32:11 pm »


I don't know how effective this proof would be and I doubt that Brent believes it will be the killing blow, but I do know that Brent 1) has some experience in this arena, 2) understands the importance of body blows in a brawl and 3) is in this for the long haul.

Again, there is more at stake with this than just "proving" GG had affairs.

S

  Thanks Scott for your clarification,

  I have been working some long hours and have been kind of shooting from the hip with my posts the last couple of weeks, so I am glad that you have given me an opportunity to clarify my post.    
   There is so much I would like to say, on this and Jeff, but for now I will just say that the post of mine that you are responding to above was not critical of what Brent has been doing.  I posted a week or so ago that I thought I understood what Brent was doing, and at that time proclaimed his wisdom in the matter.
   What I was concerned about was posting of any links to the "Soaring site", where not only are teachings of the late great Witness Lee proffered  Wink, but also those who are expert at rending souls in their malacious jaws!
    The second thing, from which you responded above, dealt with a post of Brent where he (probably tongue in cheek) talks about the adultery issue as the only really serious means to deal with the rebuidling efforts of the "addict" etc.
     Got to go----------------   God Bless,  Mark C.
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delila
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« Reply #22 on: March 05, 2004, 10:44:46 pm »

Yes Clarence, and why did you not name names?  I think that if you did, your testimony would carry more weight.  Let's name names.  What are people afraid of?

delila

People are afraid.  The fear is very real.  I know some x assembly people who consider me brave to go on the bb and though we are in agreement about so many things pertaining to the sorting of deception in George's dynasty, they are very much afraid of adding their voices to this board.  And I'm sad for that, but some nights, I've been afraid of the dark too.  

Mom told us if we were bad the boogie man would get us.  Though I'm 35, I have to remind myself in the middle of the night when I hear a sound that wakes me - the neighbour's cat wacking the basement window above my bed or something - that there is no boogie man, that George has no power in my life now.  That I am free, that the truth is the truth, regardless of how careful people have been to cover it up.  Though your tactics have sometimes snowed me Brent, I agree with you about naming names.  

Let all the boogie men be identified for the cowardly fools that they are.  Stand up and take off your mask - all x-leaders - call a spade a spade as George would say.  Remember all those times George would say: "The Lord is here, saints.  That's why we come" and we all said "Amen" - it's time now to start naming all the things we were wrong about, remain wrong about, so that we can get rid of them.  We don't just need to cover up, deny or rename the items in the house of George, we need to clean house.

delila


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Oscar
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« Reply #23 on: March 05, 2004, 11:03:50 pm »

Folks,

I wonder if the person who maintains the "Soaring" site, (Sonia?), understands just how much GG hated the Witless Lee group.

Since the Local Church and the Assembly are both Plymouth Brethren clones, GG knew he was competing  with them for the same "turf".

I joke about the assembly being the "One True Church" at times.  However, that is exactly what GG believed.  He, of course, being fundamentally dishonest would deny it if asked.  I know, I asked him.

However, I watched him for years...and if what a man DOES is any indicator, that's what he believed.  Also, all the teaching about keeping "the Lord's presence" is nothing more than a claim to be the only true divinely authorised gathering.

Did anyone ever hear him say the Lord was present anywhere else?   Not that I know of.

The local Church adopted a teaching from the PB's that amounts to the same thing.  It is called "Claiming the Church Ground".   The idea is that if you claim the church ground before anyone else does, they have to acknowledge your group as the only legitimate "expression of the body of Christ" in that locality.

Remember that term?


Anyway, GG would go apoplectic whenever the Local Church folks would do anything that he believed touched his "turf".

He tried to sic cult researchers onto them, not that he needed to since they were on to Witless Lee long before GG came to town.  As Dave S. posted, he just alerted them to his own problems..

Anyway, Sonia, or Sondra, or whoever is defending someone who hates her guts.  Go figure!

 Undecided  Wink  Smiley  Cheesy  Grin

God bless,

Thomas Maddux
« Last Edit: March 06, 2004, 11:31:05 am by Tom Maddux » Logged
jesusfreak
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« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2004, 12:06:26 am »

Lucas:
Thanks for knocking some of the fluff out of my conspiracy theory.  Yes, they exist, these places, and no wonder... in a world where one can pay to have just about any body part pierced.  And you, kind sir, exist, really.  That's refreshing.  Just curious though: how do you feel when you return from such a place? I was there for such a short time (seconds) but I left with a belly ache.

delila  

Now, what exactly is wrong with getting piercings?  I personally have been considering a tattoo, which is *technically* a piercing...a lot of small, incomplete piercings.... but yeah, same issue.... really  Wink

As for SWTE, it is the same as everything else; depends on your reasons for experiencing it.  I am there to have a thoughtful discussion on a topic that interests me.  Therefore, I feel quite good when leaving, as I love a good thought-provoking conversation.

Now, I personally disagree with a lot of the personal "comments" stated on that site.  However, I respect these comments as the poster's right to express as per their opinion, and simply exercise my right to not care about them, thusly I don't read them.  If your reason for reading through the site is based on a curiosity of who has been "commented" upon, of course you are going to get quite pissed at what is said, especially when it might be about you.  Be sure to understand why before you berate.  

Basically, any medium through which ideas are expressed has potential; you just need to find it.  
--
lucas
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d3z
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« Reply #25 on: March 06, 2004, 07:07:40 am »

Now, I personally disagree with a lot of the personal "comments" stated on that site.  However, I respect these comments as the poster's right to express as per their opinion, and simply exercise my right to not care about them, thusly I don't read them.  If your reason for reading through the site is based on a curiosity of who has been "commented" upon, of course you are going to get quite pissed at what is said, especially when it might be about you.  Be sure to understand why before you berate.

Concerning the issue of "free speech": Free speech not only governs a person's ability to speak their mind on a topic, but it also guarantees others the right to speak out against what the first person said.

Declaring someone as false doesn't go against their freedom of speech, it is just exercising mine (defamation, slander, libel are a different issue, basically one of going too far).
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delila
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« Reply #26 on: March 06, 2004, 08:28:24 am »

Lucas:
Thanks for knocking some of the fluff out of my conspiracy theory.  Yes, they exist, these places, and no wonder... in a world where one can pay to have just about any body part pierced.  And you, kind sir, exist, really.  That's refreshing.  Just curious though: how do you feel when you return from such a place? I was there for such a short time (seconds) but I left with a belly ache.

delila  

Now, what exactly is wrong with getting piercings?  I personally have been considering a tattoo, which is *technically* a piercing...a lot of small, incomplete piercings.... but yeah, same issue.... really  Wink

As for SWTE, it is the same as everything else; depends on your reasons for experiencing it.  I am there to have a thoughtful discussion on a topic that interests me.  Therefore, I feel quite good when leaving, as I love a good thought-provoking conversation.

Now, I personally disagree with a lot of the personal "comments" stated on that site.  However, I respect these comments as the poster's right to express as per their opinion, and simply exercise my right to not care about them, thusly I don't read them.  If your reason for reading through the site is based on a curiosity of who has been "commented" upon, of course you are going to get quite pissed at what is said, especially when it might be about you.  Be sure to understand why before you berate.  

Basically, any medium through which ideas are expressed has potential; you just need to find it.  
--
lucas

Lucas:
Good luck with your postings and your piercings. btw: I have nothing against piercing.  My daughter and I just got our ears pierced last month.  About swte: perhaps the cite needs a new name.  I'll say no more.
drj
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al Hartman
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« Reply #27 on: March 06, 2004, 08:56:40 am »



Now, what exactly is wrong with getting piercings?  I personally have been considering a tattoo, which is *technically* a piercing...a lot of small, incomplete piercings.... but yeah, same issue.... really  Wink

lucas


     OK, Lucas, as long as you realize that your tattoo will lump you into the same category with Christmas trees, television & wicca, and that none of us will ever be able to have anything to do with you ever again!!!

 Grin Grin Grin al  Wink

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editor
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« Reply #28 on: March 06, 2004, 10:07:24 am »



Now, what exactly is wrong with getting piercings?  I personally have been considering a tattoo, which is *technically* a piercing...a lot of small, incomplete piercings.... but yeah, same issue.... really  Wink

lucas


     OK, Lucas, as long as you realize that your tattoo will lump you into the same category with Christmas trees, television & wicca, and that none of us will ever be able to have anything to do with you ever again!!!

 Grin Grin Grin al  Wink

I know this guy who celebrates Christmas, has a tatoo, and a pierced eyebrow!

Man, do I feel better than him!  Wink

On another note, why not pierce internal body parts. In this case, we can have the satisfaction of knowing that we did it as a statement, and not just for shock value.

Brent
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Joe Sperling
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« Reply #29 on: March 06, 2004, 08:29:41 pm »

Brent----

You may have just opened a new market. There could be a  new section in body piercing stores with "spleen rings", or "kidney spikes" or even "tonsil rings" for those who still have them.

--Joe
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