What Does the Bible Say About Dating?

[Oscar]

Luke S. comments on dating are based on a false dilemma in his thinking.  It is not increased dating/increased divorce.

It is my conviction to not needlessly defraud a Sister by stirring up emtions and feelings that I am not able to satisfy.  

Luke S.

Your statement reeks of George Geftaky's contempt of women, which has effected attitudes throughout the assemblies.

Find a godly, mature and intelligent woman who won't be "stirred up" with feelings you cannot satisfy.   Some women do act like this, and some brothers as well.   So pass those over and date adults.

"Find a date, that would make a good mate."

God bless,
Thomas Maddux

[jesusfreak]

Your statement reeks of George Geftaky's contempt of women, which has effected attitudes throughout the assemblies.

Does it now.  Am I wrong to be careful in my actions in order to keep myself pure? Am I wrong to be conscious of the fact that something is happening and changing in a relationship when one dates and gets to know someone intimately?

Find a godly, mature and intelligent woman who won't be "stirred up" with feelings you cannot satisfy.  

Maybe you forget that I looking at this subject as an 18 year old teen?  Maybe my outlook will change as i get older, but for now, it stands as a conviction to fellowship with my Sisters in holy fellowship and purity, not driven by emotion.

[Phil Strangman]

Tom,

In your post, you first said, "The idea we picked up in the assembly was that God had a perfect will for every Christian...it says nothing about...WHO to marry." Then later you said, "Could the Lord Jesus figure out a good marriage partner for you? Of course."

Are you saying that Jesus does have someone He would want me to marry, but I don't have to marry that person if I don't want to? Or did I misunderstand you? I'd like you to clarify that.

About God's will: Ephesians 1:5, 11 and Mark 3:35 (probably among other verses as well) speak of God having a will. In Mark 3:35, Jesus says, "Whosoever shall do the will of God, the same is my brother, and my sister, and mother." Jesus said in John 6 that the WORK of God is to believe in Him who the Father sent. But what is the WILL of God? And how specific is it?

I thank God that we can have this dialogue and not scream our heads off at each other. I hope others see that. I may be in fellowship at St. Louis,  but I'm learning a lot right now!

Peace-

[Scott McCumber]

Luke (yeah, I know you like the cognomen of JesusFreak, but I have the CD by DC Talk and I really don't think it fits),

Boy am I glad that you are not going to "needlessly defraud" my daughter "by stirring up emotions and feelings that" you "are not able to satisfy!"

That's a big relief because she will probably be so mindless and helpless before your obvious charm and intelligence that she will fall head over heels in love with you!

She is, as you are well aware, as weak and insipid as all women. Unable to resist her more sinful nature, she will surely make a bad choice and assume that since you have expressed an interest in her, therefore she must forsake all others and wait for you to come and claim her. When that sad day comes when you decide that she is not of of good enough stock for a man of your caliber, she will surely cast herself down, renting her garments and smearing her face with ash. Poor, foolish girl.

Your comments are not only insulting and arrogant but reveal your inexperience.

I once worked as a reporter. There was a man who continually wrote letters to the editor that were so inane and laughable that I wrote an editorial and addressed him thusly, quoting a more famous and better orator than I: "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt."


Scott

[jesusfreak]

Luke (yeah, I know you like the cognomen of JesusFreak, but I have the CD by DC Talk and I really don't think it fits),

Boy am I glad that you are not going to "needlessly defraud" my daughter "by stirring up emotions and feelings that" you "are not able to satisfy!"

Your comments are not only insulting and arrogant but reveal your inexperience.

"It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak up and remove all doubt."

Brother, no need for hostility.  I believe I have made my convictions clear. If I have not, please address them specifically as to have a benifical and edifying converstaion (as I would be delighted to continue this thread).  

Scott, if this must resort to personal attacks, I will take my leave now and leave in peace.

[karensanford]

Before I was Mrs, I was a serial, habitual... DATER.  This gave me an opportunity to get to know a lot of people at a somewhat surface level.  I also did a lot of thinking about what I did and didn't want from my future spouse after meeting different young men.

God ended up leading me smack into the man that was to be my husband, JUST when I LEAST could have expected it.  However, I don't know if I would have recognized him as such if I didn't already have well-defined ideas of what I did and did not want from a husband, based upon my previous experiences.

One man's (or woman's) path is not necessarily another's.  Luke, Phil, and anyone else--God honors your respect for His daughters, and by all means you should listen to what you feel He is telling you.  However, don't shut yourself off to the idea that there is a Godly way to spend time with girls and get to know them without giving them the wrong idea, or breaking their hearts.  Like anything else, there are God-honoring and non-God-honoring ways to do it.

To expand on that, I have read somewhere on this Board about the commonly utilized Assembly way of getting two people "hooked up."    It seems that if a guy was interested in a girl, he had to speak to an LB.  If all gave approval to the pursuit, the woman was notified that Bro. so and so was interested in her.  Because only very serious pursuit was allowed, and no "alone" time was permitted prior to this, by the time the prospective couple were face to face, the girl was thinking MARRIAGE...because the guy had to have been serious to get that far.  So if they talked, and one really didn't like the other...well, at least one heart was broken that had been hopeful.  Now, from a more "worldly" viewpoint, suppose upon first interest that brother had asked her to go out and grab some casual dinner.  They may have found on that "first date" that there wasn't really any interest from one side or another.  No second date...probably not too many hard feelings.  Most people wouldn't assume that because of one dinner, the other person had imminent marriage on their mind.

Take it from one who has been there, and is now in "happily ever after!"

Lovingly,
Karen  

PS-Tom, my husband and I debated about theology the first night we met.  He tells me now that he purposefully threw all of his "hardballs" at me to see if I would get nervous and run!  After that night, he knew I was the one.  Blessings to you and your wife!

[lemonlime]

hey guys i have a brilliant idea! lets all thank the Lord we can have joy in fellowship with one another, no matter our disagreements. as far as dating is concerned, leave it to the Lord and let it be. If someone feels led to date, let them "knock themselves out" so to speak. if someone feels led to remain single until the Lord leads them otherwise, let them do the same. Live by the Lord, not by one another! Peace.

[Scott McCumber]

Luke,

*sigh* Geez, Bro, where's the fun in that? Just because my response is personal (and make no doubt, it was!), doesn't me it's not valid or you don't have a right to clarify or defend your position.

I can be upset at what you said, and you can be upset with me if you don't agree! That doesn't mean we have to suspend the thread.

Challenge me! Refute me!

It's late where I am. I'll see you on the morrow.

Scott

[jesusfreak]

Luke,

*sigh* Geez, Bro, where's the fun in that? Just because my response is personal (and make no doubt, it was!), doesn't me it's not valid or you don't have a right to clarify or defend your position.

You find fun in offending with personal attacks?  My Brother, I do not.  

[brian]

perhaps i could jump in here. i completely understand where luke is coming from, since that is also the perspective i was raised with. it is tied into a deep respect for the feminine mystique, and in its own way it is a very noble ideal to live by. however, it is not directly biblically supported, and its main arguement is based on the idea that no other position (ie dating is ok) is biblically supported either, which is obviously a weak position. all of the other verses used concerning purity in relationships can still apply to a dating situation. spending time alone together bonding and getting to know one another is not impure. its healthy and its fun. it leads to great friendships that can lead to romance, but may not. if you don't want false expectations in a relationship that may lead to someone getting their heart broken, then communicate honestly and clearly (one of the best and most basic pieces of advise for any relationship).

one of the problems in the debate here between scott and luke is that scott is experienced in dating and luke is not. so when you, luke, try to tell scott what dating is like and the dynamics of what it leads to, he has a hard time taking you seriously because thats not really the way it goes. on the other hand, scott's reaction is fairly typical of those who are experienced in and comfortable with dating - scornful and insulting dismissal of another's naive perspective.

scott, *you* are closing the door on this debate by forcing luke into a position where he either has to scorn himself or end the debate. his naivety is a poor excuse for you to publicly attack and mock him.

we all have a lot we can learn from each other here. the younger ones don't have as many years under their belt to gain extremely useful perspective from. lets have patience with each other. debate is so much more enjoyable and useful when the goal is mutual understanding rather than oneupmanship.

[Scott McCumber]

Brian, you are of course correct. Nice moderating!

I do owe Luke an apology. Normally I will not post a reply to anything that gets a rise out of me immediately. I find I'm much more constructive after I cool off and collect my thoughts.

I also enjoy a little spice in my debate. I forget that not everyone is like that and when I am debating with someone who is not like that, I certainly come off as offensive. My fault alone.

I apologize Luke for my sarcasm and also for dismissing your opinion as invalid. It is not.

You are obviously very intelligent. Very sincere and have a deeper understanding of doctrinal issues than most of your peers. I respect that.

Scott

[JS]

[Tom Maddux

I agree that people come to similar conclusions without ever entering the assembly.
Legalism is not new.]  

Tom,
Thank you for your reply.  Just a couple thoughts.

I guess I never considered someone’s personal convictions "legalism"
Legalism is the idea that I can establish my own righteousness before God.  (If I don't date I'm righteous, If I date I am not righteous, for example).  Maybe you're assuming that's what I meant, and that’s is what you may have been taught in the “assembly.”

But is it possible that God can give us wisdom regarding some of these issues?  I think it is.
I have a desire to have a pure heart before God, and I'm sure that you do to.  The Bible tells me to keep my heart with all diligence for out of it are the issues of life.  If I know that certain things will cause me to stumble or cause others to stumble, is it legalistic to refrain from those things?  The apostle Paul did not think so.  
1 Corinthians 8:13  Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.
Paul's motivation was love for his brethren.  Can we believe the best about our brother (Jesus Freak Luke S) and assume that that is his motivation as well?  

Romans 14 :3,5  Let not him that eateth (dateth) despise him that eateth (dateth) not; and let not him which eateth (dateth) not judge him that eateth (dateth): for God hath received him.  One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.

There are "unwritten rules" in these assemblies about dating, and I know that I have looked down on Christians that dated, and for that I repent.  My self-righteousness in communicating these convictions in the past does not invalidate the principles.  

We both need to come to the conclusion that healthy, well balanced, Christians who love the Lord Jesus Christ can have differing convictions about these topics.

God Bless You,
Joel

[garylwilson]

Hi Tom

You probably remember me ( Gary Wilson ).  You spent sometime meeting with me.  I have read a number of your posts.  I have enjoyed your thought provoking posts.  

I wanted to drop you a line.  First of all I want to thank you for the personal interest you took in my life a number of years ago.
Secondly, though I did once ask your forgiveness for not being truthful with you I think it bears repeating.  Brother forgive me for basically "shining you on".  I was the one who wasted an opportunity.
Thank you for going out to me.  Their have been several individuals throughout the years that have taken a personal interest in my life.
You and they have not been forgotten.

I am sure you remember my wife Linda Wilson.  We are hagging in there and seeing what the Lord will  either do with Fullerton or in Fullerton.

Say Hi to your wife for me and continue to be an encouragement and comfort to His people.  How are your childern?

Oh by the way.  Your 1st argument with your wife. Did you come to unity?  How long did it take?  Just kidding.  I enjoyed the post on dating.  Actually God did give me a promise concerning Linda.  However, it wasn't the instant mashed potatoe - I saw her - she's the one - here's the promise type thing.  It took sometime for me to be convinced that God was the one putting her on my heart.  
So dating - Linda and I dated - but it certainly was different.

Take care brother

Lord Bless

Gary Wllson

[Eulaha L. Long]

Wow, this is turning out to be a pretty hot topic!

Ok, I was being a little hard on jesusfreak.  I just don't like it when a person tries to impose their viewpoint on me.  That is very Assembly-like.  I date, and I do not feel lit is wrong, I do not feel I am "helping God out", or anything like that.  Remember, in the Assembly, people do date, it's just called "spending time".  And you could only do that with consent of the leading brothers.

If you date, that's cool.  If you don't believe in dating, that's cool too, just don't try and inforce your perspective on others, or try to make people feel guilty for what they are doing.  I don't believe dating is a sin...anyway, I hope I am making myself clear?

We don't need to bicker and fight.  Let's just agree to disagree, shall we?

[Phil Strangman]

I don't know if Tom or anyone else has seen my most recent post here yet on this subject, but I'm just reminding him or anyone else that I'd like to see someone respond to those questions. Thanks!

Peace,