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al Hartman
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« Reply #75 on: April 25, 2005, 08:56:56 am »



Thank you, Lenore, for your latest post, today.  These are extremely valuable thoughts that can be the subject of much personal reflection, meditation and prayer.

They are presented in a "neutral" format-- neither Christian nor non-Christian in their orientation. 
The Christian needs to remember that the wisdom that comes from God must always be subject to God. 
Therefore, philosophy or psychology ought not to be employed just because they sound good or seem to work.  The principles you have shared can work wonderful changes in a person's life, but without Christ as its basis, the equation will still ultimately fail, at best leading from one set of problems to another.  (I know that you understand this, Lenore, but I point it out for the sake of readers who may not.)

The only true self esteem is established with a view toward how God our Father sees and feels toward us.  "Self esteem" lacking that perspective is only illusion that will ultimately disappoint...

al
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lenore
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« Reply #76 on: April 26, 2005, 12:06:19 am »

 :)April 25th:

I agree with you Al, 100%.

Remember most of these groups cannot appear to be bias in their teaching, due to human rights laws here.
Most places will say 'THEIR HIGHER POWER'.

This also includes the A.A.'s and the related support groups such as Gambler A.
Overeater A., Depression A. etc.

I know there are people is in this group will say God, but because of the difference in believes whether it is a main line church, or a non Christian Group, we have to be able to respect the difference if we are going to be supportive to each other.
The leader who runs these groups is a Christian her self, and she has to watch what see says.
Because there are people who dont believe.
Due to mutual respect. We can say, I rely on God....., but then we have to accept the other person point of view. It is only through our example, not just our words that will bring others to Jesus.

I have one small problem though.
I be trying to say, by the grace of God, I am a good person. By the grace of God, I am learning.
My best friend and a spiritual mentor, who is boarding Sara.
Has been say dont  say that.
It has been puzzling me somewhat over this advice.

I think she is trying to get me to see my worth.
Because she says when I say, by the grace of God. I am saying to myself, I am nothing without God.
I always though that was what you are NOTHING WITHOUT GOD.

I think her advice was because I have very low self worth, I have to see the talents, gifts, and abilities and who I am in God.
Like the 40 days of purpose says GOD CREATED ME.....
So I should put down my self, because I am bringing in to question what GOD HAD CREATED.


Does any one have any thoughts of what I have just presented.

I would welcome opinions on this matter.  THANK YOU.

Lenore
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al Hartman
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« Reply #77 on: April 26, 2005, 07:18:51 am »



Lenore, you have the truth when you say that it is our example & not just our words that will win souls to Christ.  It is important, though, that we do not compromise our words to the point that they deny the Source of the example we set forth.

The world, the flesh and the devil all want us to say that we are good because God created us to be good.  It is true that mankind was created to be good, ie, to be the express image and likeness of God Himself, Who alone is good.  But it is also true that mankind fell from our original estate, under sin, and became wholly unworthy of God or His goodness.  It is because of SIN that self-esteem is no longer warranted merely on the basis of our having been created "good."  We are fallen, have become filthy and unacceptable in the sight of God.

But by grace are we saved who have believed the gospel, and our esteem can only be in Him Who has redeemed us with His own blood.  Our "SELF-esteem" can be only for the self that Jesus Christ has saved from its deserved fate of condemnation and eternal death-- the self that has been washed in the blood of the Lamb of God, cleansed and made  new and beloved before the face of the holy and righteous God.

Those who want us to have regard for what we are by nature do not understand what Paul was saying, that inour flesh dwells no goodness.  There is nothing good about our nature until it has been reborn through faith in the work of Christ.

So what you feel in your heart, Lenore, that without Christ you are nothing, that it is only by grace that you can be good, by grace that you are learning, is absolutely correct.

Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved. Acts4:12

al
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lenore
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« Reply #78 on: April 29, 2005, 01:53:47 am »

April 28:
Today contribution to this thread:
I just came home from my self esteem course 'TIME FOR ME"
IT IS SPONSORED BY THE COMMUNITY MENTAL HEALTH CLINIC .

I would like to share some of what is being taught and learned. Even though people are sharing their dependence on God...Remember this has to be God neutral course.....

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
COMES THE DAWN
AUTHOR: VERONICA SHOFFSTALL

After a while you learn the subtle difference
Between holding a hand
And chaining the soul
And you learn that love
Doesn't mean security
And you begin to learn
That kisses aren't contracts
And presents aren't promises
And you begin to accept your defeats
With your head up and your eyes open
With the grace of a woman
Not the grief of a child
And you learn to build all your roads
One today
Because tomorrow's ground
Is too uncertain
And futures have
A way of falling down in midflight
After a while you learn that even
Sunshine burns if you get too much
So you plant your own garden
And decorate your own soul
Instead of waiting
For someone
To bring you flowers
And you learn that you really can endure
That you really are strong
And you really do have worth
And you learn and learn
With every goodbye you learn.


FACTS ABOUT FEELINGS:

Before learning more about communicating your emotions in ways that will enrich your life instead of shatter it read and think about the following facts about feelings.

People are afraid to take the risk of expressing their feelings
Because others might disapprove of what they say

People put moral judgements on their feelings
You may not realize that feelings need to be acknowledged, accepted, and not condemned in order to be handled constructively.

Denying or ignoring slights, hurts, or "bad feelings" creates a pressure cooker of tension.
Because emotions are so strong, you can only keep the lid on them for a limited time.
Then, even against your will they will erupt.

Buried feelings express themselves indirectly.
For instance. You may nag, backbite, become jittery and nervous, or get depressed.
Physically, bottling up feelings can lead to many "dis-eases", such as aches or pains, insomnia, or even heart attacks.

The key to people facing their feeling is facing themselves.
You not only need to accept your won insecurities and weakness along with your strengths, but also you need to understand that not being perfect is part of being human.


LEARN TO SPEAK YOUR MIND

To feel in control of your life you need to be able to express your thoughts, feelings, and needs without infringing on the rights of others.

Expressing your opinions while allowing others to do the same is called being assertive. Trampling over others to get your own way is being aggressive, while letting people overrule all your wants and needs is being passive.

Being assertive is both respecting yourself and others. The following guidelines will help you speak out and to be more assertive.

Practice giving "I" messages:
For example, say, "I feel disappointed that the trip was cancelled."
Instead of: "People will be so disappointed that the trip was cancelled."

Tell others how you want to be treated without putting them down
A good way to do this is to express something you appreciate before you mention what you need.
"I appreciate your thoughtfulness in making plans for Sunday, but I would prefer if you checked with me first in case I'd made other plans"

Realize you won't necessarily get treated the way you want
Even after you have made your request, but you'll feel better for asking.

Accept that it will be harder for some people to speak out.
Perhaps you have trouble saying
"NO"
to your children, or being direct with your doctor.

Use the formula below to help you speak out when it's difficult.

When you……………..{rush me}
I feel……………{flustered}
I would prefer…………{to go at my own pace}
Then…………..{I will enjoy our outing much more}

If your request is still ignored , then state the consequence.
Try to keep the consequence positive.

If  you……..{will allow me to go at my own pace}
I will feel…….{less stressed and happier, and better company for you}

Be careful that the plan of action you say are going to take doesn't make the situation worse for you instead of better.
..............................................................

Some of the homework we are doing is:
 
How many times do you use the word "should" on yourself, others and how many times do others use the word "should" on you.
 
How do I nuture myself even for 1/2 hour each day?
 
Accept compliments graciously
 
In a situation, how did I respond to feelings, and how could I have responded.
Changing our attitude about our responses in situations.
 
Recognize how we are a fixer, and do not become a fixer . Dont try to fix people problems. Only listen and acknowledge their feelings.
 
Practice personalizing communication. Use the "I " example "I am Feeling" more than using generalizations.
 
Watch body and facial language of others, and learn to identify each of the body language. In otherwords become people watchers.
 
Only talk good about yourself, dont put yourself down,
 
There are questions each week that need to be answered:
1. Something I learned about myself this week:
2. Right now I am feeling:
3. Something I'd like to work on:
4. Other thoughts are:
5. Things I learned this session:
 
There are other things:
Saying sorry is a put down, and is used to often. It is to be use only if you have hurt someone.
 
 
Other things that is being taught are:
Keep in mind: you tell the world how you want to be treat is by the way you treat yourself.
 
FEELINGS COME WITHOUT OUR INVITATION AND FEELINGS WILL NOT GO AT OUR DEMAND.
We can change our thoughts ...we can change our feelings{sound familiar in light of 40 days}
 
 
Feel free to use this communication in anyway you deem necessary.
It goes with the 40 days....
ANd I hope it also helps you personally as well.....
 
P.S.>>>>>>>>
I am using my church family as subjects a lot, so beware!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont use names....but I have use it in my responding exercises to situations, or what people have said to me.....
 
I hope you will pray for the 7 participants, and for Olive Poff who is teaching this group "TIme for me Session 1 Group". Because there are a lot of broken spirits.  Over half are relying on God which is great to see.  Dependency on God help is mentioned alot.....
I cannot name names... but God knows who they are who needs prayers.

Lenore
 




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tenderhearted
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« Reply #79 on: June 18, 2005, 12:55:03 am »

June 14:

Information on Mood Disorders:

www.mooddisorder.on.ca


In one of the Mood Disorder Magazines:

Poem:


WINTERMOOD
Author: Molly Chapman

The old man's moved in again, unbidden,
toting bags of endless dirty days,
smothering colour and my emotions.
He duels with Father Time and wins
until I feel frozen in place,
waiting to be rescued for a century or more.
Now, sun and spring are but a distant mirage
I am powerless to pursue.

I sink into hopeless, vague miasma;
dreaming of warm, yellow days and green
growing scents,
when I grow drunk on the sun's heady portion,
I greedily suck it p and savour it
so I can recall and relive those glorious days
when the old man's return unbidden.


...................

This poem is about a person who suffers from a mood disorder called seasonal deficient disorder, in the winter.



..................
During my workshop conference in Thunder Bay in May 11 to 13th I received a number of handouts.
1. Advocating for Rehabilitation and Recovery.

2. Rethinking Rehabilitation: Freedom
By Patricia E. Deegan PHD 
pat@patdeegan.com

3. Executive Summary
A Report of the Surgeon General on Mental Health

4. Recovering our sense of value after being labelled mentally ill
Patricia E. Deegan  PH.D.

5.  Recovery and Resilience



One of the titles of the Workshop was
Recover, The Experiene, the Evidence and The Practice
ty Dr. Patricia E. Deegan
www.patdeegan.com


There are several website:

www.mhrecovery.com/best practice.htm[Ohio}
www.mhsip.org/recovery/index.html
www.power2u.org/pace_manual.pdf{Massachuesetts}

United States:
www.mentalhealthrecovery.org

Canadian Mental Health Association-Ontario Div.
www.ontario.cmha.ca

Can we measure recovery? A Compendium of Recovery and Recovery Related Instruments
by Ralph R. Kidder
www.hsri.org/eva/eval.html

Austrailia -Multicultural Mental Health
ww.mmha.org.au.

Information on Recovery Competencies for Mental Health Workers/Service Providers
www.mhc.govt.nz/publications/2001/Recovery Competencies.pdf


LIKE MINDS TEACHING KIT - addresses issue discrimination in mental health
www.likemind.govt.nz

Where is Recovery Happening Now?
www.namiscc.org/index.htm
www.metaservice.com
www.mh.state.oh.us
www.mentalhealthrecovery.com/vtrecovery.html
www.bu.ed/cpr
www.windhorseassociates.org
www.dmhas.state.ct.us/recovery.htm
www.talkingcure.com/JzzkkoSeikkula.htm
www.triestesalutementale.it
www.tidal-model.co.uk
www.mhc.govt.nz
www.qsos.ca

What helps and What hinder Report[2002}
Phase one of USA National Research Project conducted in 9 states to gain knowledge on what helps and what hinders mental health recovery.
www.nasmhpd.org/general_files/publications/ntac_pubs/reports/MHSIPReport.pdf


Hope some of these website are useful.

Lenore





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tenderhearted
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« Reply #80 on: September 12, 2005, 11:47:00 pm »

September 12th:

Remember last spring when I took the Self Esteem Course
called
'OLIVE POFF - TIME FOR ME'

Well I started part two last Thurday.

'OLIVE POFF - TIME TO GROW"

It is about getting in touch with your feelings, accepting the feelings, and learning how to change your thinking to put those feelings into place.
There are some great poems, and writings.
And  tips.

If you people are interested in me contributing some of them, if you think they will help you put some of your feelings into place as you deal with life issues, including the betrayal residue of what the assembly has left behind.

I will be most glad to be able to post some of more encouraging ones.

The woman who is running this four part series, name is Olive Poff, she is a retired nurse , who volunteers her time, and works out of the Pembroke General Hospital, Mental Health Clinic area.
She is a Christian, but most of her teachings has to be politically correct, to accommodate those who are not of the Christian faith.

Well this is just asking if you will be interested.

Lenore
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tenderhearted
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« Reply #81 on: December 18, 2005, 10:40:31 pm »

 :)HAPPY LORD'S DAY TO YOU ALL on this Fourth Week of Advent.

I was watching television and this ad came up.....

www.depressionhurts.com

This ad. was emphasizing that depression is not just a mood disorder, but there are physical symptoms that are associated with depression.

I checked this website out. 


I wanted to share this with you all, because....

CHRISTMAS CAN BE THE MOST STRESSFUL TIME OF YEAR FOR ALOT OF PEOPLE, whether for yourself, your family members, your neighbours, and even within your church family.

Loneliness because family members are not around for one reason or another.
Situational circumstances because of lack of financial resources.
Tragedies like the tsunami, and hurricanes disasters, or a death in the family especially in among the Christmas Holidays.

Prayer for these people are giving them into God hands, but God wants us to be practical, and put our prayers into action. 

An example here in Arnprior, the local Presbyertian Church on the 20th, is putting on a service for those who are lonely at this time of year, for the various reasons that affects them at Christmas.

Well this is getting long, so I better close off now.

Thank you for allowing me to share this bit of information.
Lenore Wink
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tenderhearted
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« Reply #82 on: April 30, 2006, 08:30:32 am »

April 29th:

Hi Everyone; On Thursday I went to a Renfrew Country Mental Health Conference, dealing on Wellness and the Family. It was for providers, families, and consumers.
It was a really energizing time of information.

Two piece of handouts  were on HOPE>HOPE IS the biggest key in recovery on the Journey.
As I was reading these handouts, I compared it will the Christian Journey. As Christians were are all connect to Christ as Brothers and Sisters.  So when I say RELATIVE, put into fellow Christian.

ATTITUDE 'HOLDING THE HOPE: Hope inspiring strategies for Families
.Believe in your relative's potential and strength
. Value your relative's as a unique human being
.Accept your relative for who he/she is
.Forgive your relative for past hurts.
.Tolerate the uncertainty about the future developments in your relative's life
.Accept your relative's setbacks as part of the recovery process
.Tolerate your relative's challenges
.Trust the authenticity of the relative's experiences
.Confront and deal with your own internalized stigma about mental health problems.
.Take care of yourself so that you can nuture your own hope for your relative.

ACTION -MODELING THE HOPE
>Listen non-judgmentally to your relative's experiences
>Express a genuine concern for your relative's well being
>Use humour
>Encourage your relative's to be self forgiving and self nuturing. Help change your relative's negative perceptions of events and self.
>Assist your relative to set and reach small steps and successes. Provide opportunities for new challenges and experiences.
>Assist your relative to develop better coping skills. Be a role model to your relative.
>Assist your relative to recall previous acheivements and postive experiences
>Help your relative to see setbacks as part of the recovery process
>Assist your relative to make sense of the suffering related to her/his mental health problem.
>Encourage your relative to find personal meaning and purpose in life
>Support your relative's spiritual beliefs.
>Assist your relative to conect with successful roles models.
>Educate your relative about recovery
>Assist your relative to access desired services and supports.

I hope this help someone.
Lenore
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tenderhearted
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« Reply #83 on: May 16, 2006, 08:03:31 am »

May 15th..

The day after Mother's Day.  A battle with depression with emotions and spirit battling it out.
For a while emotions of self pity, rejection and loneliness was winning.

HIgh expectations of others, to meet my needs was another factor.

My own girls didnt even acknowledge Mother's Day, not a card, not a flower, not a phone call, zilch.

My family gathered at my Brother's house, to support my brother and neice, on the first Mother's Day with out mate and mother.  A gift was given to our mother.
I gave the mother's and mother's to be, a bouquet of silk flowers.
It was a great BBQ.   It didnt lift my spirits, knowing my own kids were as forth coming with their appreciation, I should be used to it I guess.  Well crying is on of the ways to release that depressional hormone.

You know something. I was wished Happy Mother's Day by several people, I was given hugs, and a flower on Mother's Day.  YOu know where I got that supportive greetings.
IT WAS FROM MY CHURCH FAMILY. Where I have grown as a Christian. Where I am part of a family community.
Despite of my loneliness I need to remember I am not alone.
God is my husband, God is my father, God is my brother, I am his child.

Even though I suffer from Depression.  God is there with me to walk with me, through those journeys of down time, because I can have confidence He will see me through.

If any of you are lonely and depressed at this holiday time.  If you must indulge in self pity, make it a short visit. Try to count the blessings of where you get your support.

May you walk hand in hand through the journey of life God has set you on.

Lenore
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Joe Sperling
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« Reply #84 on: October 09, 2009, 12:41:20 am »

I know this is a very old thread, but I read an interesting article just the other day called
"A depressed Christian??"  The article mentioned how many Christians view depression as a "sin",
great weakness, or lack of faith.  I realized that many years ago I had that "definition" en-
grained into me also.  Christians just aren't supposed to be depressed. They are supposed to
have a constant smile on their face, and be continually "rejoicing" (though the Biblical term is
actually quite different than a lot of people define it).

Imagine if a guy had a broken leg and there was a "run for Christ" 10,000 meters, and we berated the guy for not running in the race? "Aw, come one you big baby! get out there and run!"  But how often was a seriously depressed person met with "rejoice brother!! Snap out of it!!" in the legalistic churches we all once frequented?  It was as though depression was something that that person desired and was holding onto, and all they had to do was snap their fingers and they could be smiling their way out of it!  Smiley

This article mentioned how we all accept Alzheimer's for what it is----a deterioration of the actual physical brain.  It can be treated with medicine to hold off the effects for a time or slow them down.  But none of us would ever tell the Alzheimer's patient to "snap out of it" and start "remembering things" would we?

Clinical Depression is very real. The very chemicals of the brain are out of whack, along with the very thinking process the person is using at the same time.  Can a Christian suffer from Clinical Depression?  I would ask can a Christian break their leg?   Yes--of course they can suffer from depression. And it can be a definite chemical imbalance that has brought on the effects.

But somehow, many of us feel that taking medication for depression would be a "cop-out"---that we're just not showing enough faith.  Does God mirculously cure Alzheimer patients?  He could-----but he doesn't often do so.  Can God miraculously cure depression?  Sure---he could---but again, he doesn't often do so.  He expects us to use the means he has given to help with our sicknesses.  He has given us doctors and medicine.  If we as Christians KNOW that we are suffering from depression, is it wrong to consult a physician, and to accept a treatment of medicine if necessary?  I think God would expect us to do so--just as we would consult a physician for a bad back, or flu, or any other problem that is slowing us down and making life more difficult.  If medicine and counseling will help get a grip on depression, we should be seeking that help.

I wanted to share this because the article really showed me how I still hold onto old "concepts" sometimes that I learned in a legalistic atmosphere---that told me what a Christian should or shouldn't be------and many of the concepts were just downright incorrect.  Can a Christian be filled with faith, and be clinically depressed? They most certainly can---just as any other person can suffer from a myriad of ailments that all men are subject to at times.  Being a Christian does not exempt us from the physical world and all of it's problems-and that includes depression for some.  The biography of David Brainerd is a good example of a man filled with great faith, but continually and constantly depressed.  He was most likely "clinically depressed" but they didn't make diagnoses like that back then. If we think we are suffering from depression (google depression and run through a list of the "signs" if you have the time) there is no shame in seeking all the help we can to combat the problem----God in his great love has provided the means for us to do so.
« Last Edit: October 09, 2009, 01:28:40 am by Joe S » Logged
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