Chicago / Lombard :THINK THEY ARE "ABOVE THE LAW!"

[sue xander]

ATTENTION : ANDREA  DENNER  

The negative leaving experiences of the Midwest are alive and happening!  They are happening even today!  I am here to tell of one in the Chicago land ( FOREST PARK ) and Lombard Lodges.   The leaving tactics of abuse are alive and well in Lombard and Forest Park.  They can say they want to be autonomous but they are not.  If they are, that means no more money from the work, no itinerants, no George appointed leading brothers, no assembly anything.  Autonomous means independent of.  Chicago and Lombard are not independent “of” anything.  They have always been taught to be dependent.  And that is the way it will always be with the present leaders (who cannot lead )!  So you all that are “ in the lodge “ who soak that up, slurp that up and keep believing that crap, you will just go on supporting wife beating, child beating, harassment and lies!

We left the Lombard lodge over 3 years ago.  We left because the lodge is a controlling, legalistic, non healthy and cult like place.  Our family left with still being “in contact” with the ones that are “in”.  But slowly (or not so slowly) we started getting harassed for leaving.  We received calls, letters, visits, and e-mails that tried to bring us to shame and guilt.  That is their greatest goal.  They feel by shaming and making ones feel so guilty     “ in the name of GOD” then people will come back.  But you don’t get to come back the same.  That is forever thrown in your FACE that you left!  So to stop the harassments and to be able to continue to move forward with our walks with the Lord without being dragged so far down that we could not get back up, we cut those folks off.  My husband wrote a letter to JOE DENNER  (leading brother) to let him know that we wanted absolutely no contact in any form and to please pass that message around.  It was the assembly – lodge members that brought us to that decision.  Even prior to this decision, I  was notified by women that called themselves my very close friends that they could no longer be my friends anymore b/c I left the lodge.  I was told that b/c we left the Lodge, that we were in sin!  We were ostracized for it.  I was told that we had to be in sin or have bitterness b/c we left, I mean why else would you ever leave?  This is the only place of light and life.  This is the only true place that God dwells.  This is just some of the things that we were told.

     Since our leaving we have been still getting letters, calls, visits, and e-mails.  Why is it that the lodge members think that they can still control others who have left ( as well as those within).  Why is it they do NOT know how to respect ones wishes.  Why is it ok to cause problems and harass others and yet it is then a sin if we harass them?  How would you people like it if I got a group of people to protest at your meetings describing what a cult it is there?  How would you people like it if I wrote an article for the Chicago Tribune on cult abuse locally?  How would you like it if I e-mailed you “ what a fool you are” like I got sent to me?  How would you like it if I sent my kid to harass yours at your local school like one leading brothers daughters did to mine ( LOVIK)?  How would you like it if you could not open your front blinds for 3 years b/c every time you turned around there was one of them at your door or showing up in your driveway when you are trying to shovel snow?  Would the Assembly really like that kind of exposure?  Would they like that kind of a campaign against them?  I THINK NOT!  Then they had better lay off harassing me and my family!  Here is another perfect example of a harassment that happened today ( NEW YEARS EVE 2002).  Hit the answering machine button after being at the store to get my messages.  The voice of Andrea Denner comes on.  She says “ I know you will know who this is b/c my number and name is on your caller ID.  I am not calling to exhort you.  But I do want to talk to you.  I want to talk to you tomorrow     ( 1-1-03).  If you do not call me back I will not call you anymore (as if it was ok this time too…NOT).  But I want to talk to you and I want to talk to you tomorrow.  So please call me back, b/c I want to talk to you.”  This is just another of the continuous harassment calls that I get.  Now I have not heard from Andrea in 3 years…why the sudden call?  Does she really think that I am going call her back b/c she wants me to?  Of course she does not state why she wants to talk to me.  That is another example of the control tactics that come from the lodge.  They want to play games.  They use fear, intimidation, control, and manipulation to get ones to do as they say.  Because she is a leading brothers wife she thinks that she is superior to others.  So I am 39 years old and she is assuring me that she is calling me not to exhort me ( like I am a bad girl on the mat or something).  What a great way to start off a call after 3 years! HA!  First of all the misuse and negativeness that the lodge has given the word exhort.  Truly they need to use a dictionary.  Secondly, who do you think you are Andrea that you can call my home after you were specifically told that in a letter in April of 2000 ( that I have a copy of) that was sent to you to no longer in any form contact me ( us).  What gives you the right to surpass my authority?  I am not under your control…never was!  I am not afraid of you…never was!  I am not intimidated by you…never was!  And yet, you continuously think along with others there, that you can do as you please b/c you think that you are better that me.  You think that b/c you hold some sort of title that the world has not clue about, that George gave you, not God, that you can use that to control, manipulate, intimidate and make others fear you?  ( Please remember that its not just this call, but its 3 + years of constant harassment that brings me to write this).  
     Once again, this is one of many examples that shows the negative leaving process that some may encumber from the lodge.  You are not thought of as an adult in the lodge.  You are thought of as a big nobody who needs to obey the leaderships commands.  If there is any disobedience or independent thinking you are in sin.  You are not allowed to think for yourself.  You need to ask the leadership if you can cook supper and what time?  You have to ask your husband if your child can have 3 bites or 2 of that hamburger ( soy meat of course)! (these are actual things that I have seen and heard...sick as it is!)  See even though God gave each of us a brain, unless it is used to for the work of God according to George and his local leadership clones it is not to be used.  You are not to think for yourself b/c if you do you might actually figure out that the place is an unhealthy, legalistic, controlling and cult like place.  You won’t want to stay. You should not stay!
     I will post more names if deemed necessary, but for now, this a message to those of you that think, like Andrea Denner, Tammy Timm, Connie Lovik and their spouses ( Joe, Paul, Mark) and of course the others in leadership, Roger and Geri Grant etc….WHAT PART OF NO , DON’T YOU UNDERSTAND?  When my husband as well as myself writes no contact that means NO.  Tammy, you don’t  need to call me after 8 years and ask me if I want animal costumes, of course just to let me know that you are moving to Lombard and you are a big time worker now etc…!  I don’t care!!!  You all must think that you are above the law.  But the law does not think its funny or that you are above them.  The next mode of harassment received will land you a policeman at your door.  Do you understand that?  Do I need to spell that out for you?  BACK OFF!  It is not funny and we are not laughing!  
     I know those of you “in the lodge”  are all reading this website.  As you read it if you are not convicted of what you read..then you are as bad as the ones that have inflicted the beatings…you are condoning them , supporting them and financing them!  If you don’t do something about it yourselves, like leave that lodge, then you are just as guilty as the ones that have covered it up for almost 25 years.  That is sick and you all therefore disgust me!  I have never had ill feelings for you , but you must toward me ( us ) if you continually harass me ( us).  You need to repent.  You really need to ask God to forgive you for staying in a place that supports such aweful behavior, its despicable and it disgusts me!  You need to learn how to respect people and their wishes, just like you want those in the lodge to bow to your commands.  
     

[Rachel]

WELL PUT SUE!!!!

[Tony Rosete]

As somebody who knows Garth and Sue personally, I'm showing up on here to rise to their defense.  

I left that ministry in April for totally different reasons than they did, and had a very different experience afterwards.  Everyone in leadership has been very kind to me as I told  them about my decision and since then.  I still have friendships with a few that are still there and for the most part have not received the harrassment that seems to be characteristic of many on this board.

Having said all that, I have seen the very disappointing attitude from many that "The Assembly" has the most light available, and there is no real good reason that one should ever leave.  I was told by several that I was making a compromise, and that i had no vision, and that I'll never be able to find a place that has nearly as much light, etc. etc.  As I was having difficulty with my decision initially, hearing these comments only helped comfort me that I had done the right thing.  

I remember being in an argument with somebody shortly after Garth and Sue left because this person was convinced that God did not and could not have called them to another place of fellowship - period.  There are only 2 cases where somebody could really leave that ministry:

1)  Heresy being taught
2)  Issues of gross immorality (strange this was occurring at the time..)

At the time, my response was simply, "God called them into fellowship at one time, who are we to say God can't call them out".  That argument was not good enough, because God doesn't do that once we have been so enlightened as to be called into the Assembly.  That was the very beginning of me starting to consider actually leaving.  It was 2 years in the making, seeing a number of other things that disturbed me, capped off by hearing the "main man" in the ministry regularly and with authority inform us that God created man on the 7th day - thus completely destroying my understanding of new testament sabbath rest, and defying every known and respected biblicar scholar throughout all of history.  This of course left me unable to understand why somebody was allowed to hop from place to place and preach this nonsense without being asked to sit down.  Much to my dismay, not only was he not being given the cane, I discovered that several, leadership and non leadership, were also starting to agree??  In perfect culmination, my last meeting in fellowship was all about the blessed labor of love that God did in creating man - on the SEVENTH day, while basically mocking those who might be inclined to challenge this glorious new revelation.

Anyway, as soon as I made contact with Garth and Sue again, lo and behold I discover the impossible - they are walking with the Lord, growing spiritually, as kind as ever, exercising their biblical roles in the home, Garth teaching classes in his church, Sue as much the servant she ever was and more, etc etc etc blah blah (group hug time?).

Can I suggest everybody leave them alone and respect their wishes?  If you really have something that must be said to them, contact me and I will relay the info to them.  You have my phone number, and I will gladly talk to you.  After all they have been through, it is really unwise to be sending people to their door, leaving messages on their machine giving them the times you are available, etc.  I still talk to many, and will continue to maintain the friendships I have.  I have no ill will towards anybody, although I am pretty outraged about a number of things that are finally coming out.  It appears that many are trying to just move on and walk with the Lord, and heal, including the Xanders.  Please let them do so.

Tony

[karensanford]

Sounds very similar to tactics used by the Mormons.

[Sebastian Andrew]

Greetings Tony:
It is great to hear that you were able to leave the way that you did. It may not always be possible for everyone but it does open our eyes to the possibility; and frankly, it's kind of refreshing for a change to hear it.

[Ken Fuller]

Sue -- please call Toni !!!!  

She tried very faithfully to reach you many times, never to exhort but as a friend.  

She is the one sister you COULD confide in, and she was hurt very badly when you just cut her off cold.  She want to hear from you again, please call!!!

[sue xander]

Ken, thanks for the post.  She can register and contact  me via the web site.  WE had e-mailed each other several times and then all of a sudden I never heard from her again.   Thanks Sue

[Toni]

Sue,  I want to talk, but not on this web site.  Please call me.  

[sue xander]

Toni,  would love to...but I probably can't til the weekend....maybe you could give me a call on Saturday.  Does that work for you?  Sue

P.S.  Good to hear from you!

[Toni]

Sue, yes that works for me.  And yes, ditto here that it's good to re-connect.  But I don't want to use this web site for personal things cuz that's not what it's for.  I gave Tony Rosete my phone number, you can get it from him or send me your other email and I'll send it to you myself.  Take care,  Love  Toni  

[sue xander]

Toni, no this website is not for pesonal things...however if you registered, and I am not sure that you have we could send each other private messages.  As for tomorrow, give me a call my number is the same.  During the day would be best.  Thanks Sue

[Ken Fuller]

Sue, sadly I do not have your phone number.  My is 314-838-0760.  please call me when you get the time.  Most of my day is pretty flexible tomorrow. Lord bless!  Toni

[freebird]

I FOUGHT THE LAW AND THE LAW WON.

[Toni Fuller]

Sue, I finally got registered.  My post from last night is under Ken's name below, meant for you from me.  I'm still somewhat computer challenged and proud of it.  Don't spend much of my time in front of the keyboard.  Call me today...pleeeeeassse.