MOVE ON!!!: My Thoughts

[Luke Robinson]

Dear Saints of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ,

I have been on here before.  I have written many posts, and I have been called everything from a child to a heretic.  From an fool to a woman hater.  From a deceiver to a warped, confused “assemblyite”.  I have been labeled a liar and an abuser.  I have been called an enemy of God.  I have been called close-minded, sarcastic, and hurtful.  And it is time for me to chime in.  Hopefully, with a more gentler conclusion.

I believe I was on this web site approximately four or five months.  I started writing because I wanted to say hi to Brian Tucker, but as I kept reading, as I kept looking through other threads, I found this web site had a lot more to it, than my original goal.  

I found that there were a lot of angry people.  Angry at this assembly system, started by George Geftakys and his son, Timothy Geftakys.  It started from a dispute in a family.  It started when the abusive behavior of David Geftakys against his wife, Judy Geftakys, was revealed publicly upon this board.

Brent Tr0ckman, a former member of the gathering in San Luis Obispo, saw the abuse of David, and started geftakysassembly.com and this bulletin board to discuss and reason out how this could have happened.  The goal of this web site at the beginning was to expose darkness and sin going on in the Geftakys family.  Am I right?

Well, months passed, George was excommunicated from the assembly in Fullerton, because first of all, he did not make amends with his family, and secondly, because immorality was found to be going on in his private life for a number of years.  And as these things came to light, and as the culprits were singled out and removed from office, a new phenomena arose.  George was now gone, unrepentant, and done with the assembly.  But now, all eyes were searching for more to put the blame on.  And the next in line, of course, were Timothy Geftakys and the full time workers, believing that they had stolen funds, and suspected that these men knew about the Geftakys family incident and did not do very much about it.  

It was believed on this board that these men purposely stole from the saints to just “line George’s pockets.”  It was believed that they ALL knew about David and Judy Geftakys and the problems in the family and did not protect Judy from her husband.  Mind you, I said “it was believed” which can change with each new witness.

Timothy Geftakys was accused of adultery, theft, abuse, and dividing families.  Danny Edwards(God bless him) was accused of knowing of the David and Judy crisis and doing little to stop it.  Mike Zach was accused of abuse, dividing a family, and a few other things.  Maybe some other members of this board can enlighten me?  These accusations were mostly based on speculation, but two brothers did come out and apologize about certain things that they did or did not do.  Timothy Geftakys never said a word in his defense, but one must think as to what affect it would be in accordance with the extravagance or the  accusations.

After the bulletin board became tiresome of this escapade, they moved on to the Elders and Leading Brothers of each local assembly.  It was said that they totally pushed Geftakys doctrine, that they purposefully stole from the people of God, that they had phone conversations with George every week, that they all knew of the crisis within the Geftakys family, or that they SHOULD’VE known.  It was said that none of them questioned George’s teachings, except for those that left the assembly years ago.  It was said that they never stood up to George and let him verbally attack anyone he wanted to.  It was said that they let George be arrogant when they should have stepped in and reprimanded him.

This has ventured on for the last few months because no conclusion has been reached.  Well, the conclusion of most is that those in leadership were deceitful men who used the sheep as their personal piggy bank.  And yet, many wonder why these men don’t suddenly come on to this web site and openly express apologetic replies and lament about how much they abused the flock.  Is it because they “ignore the truth?”
Surely, they have more years of Biblical study than the vast majority of the people on this board.  

This is my opinion on the whole ordeal.  
I would like to write a bit of a testimony at the request of one man who e-mailed me.

I was born in St. Louis, Missouri and grew up in the St. Louis assembly.  This could be grounds that I “have no idea what I’m talking about” but I think it is quite important to the argument.  The gathering had its few problems, as ALL gatherings do, whether they be Southern Baptist or Evangelical Free.  But I also saw some fabulous things in the St. Louis Assembly.  First of all, I saw that the St. Louis assembly was based upon Christ-like love and the Word of God.  Last year, if everyone was there at the same time, it had to be about one hundred people gathering in the name of the Lord.  They were all great saints and I was close friends with all of them, and still am.  When men were led by the Lord to prepare a message for the saints, they went to their Bibles and looked up something that would encourage the saints to continue on with the Lord.  It was not them just “resorting to their seminar notes” but reading the word.  I can base this on fact, because I did it before every time I preached.  And if I might messed up or overstepped, sometimes a brother would come up and lovingly and SCRIPTURALLY show me where I might have been a little off or said something not according to the word.  Mind you, they had their Bibles right there to show me where the truth was.  And I can’t tell you how many times I’ve prayed with people, and they have encouraged me on my journey with the Lord.

I saw Godly judgment among the leadership as well as a caring heart in each of them.  And that is why I defend them from those that depend on the “abusive” behavior of Fullerton and San Luis Obispo alone.  I will not succumb to this bantering because clearly, I have seen something far different than the majority of you on this bulletin board(you being mostly from Fullerton and San Luis Obispo).  I don’t care if you call me a heretic, a fool, a purposely blind individual, because I know where I stand, and that is before the Creator of the Universe.  And these men honored God.  

1 Samuel 2:30  Wherefore the LORD God of Israel saith, I said indeed that thy house, and the house of thy father, should walk before me for ever: but now the LORD saith, Be it far from me; for them that honour me I will honour, and they that despise me shall be lightly esteemed.

This verse is my answer to all of your simple assumptions that all assemblies were the same.  With concrete knowledge that these men honored God, there is many verses that speak to those that despise their leaders.

To me, the assembly was the most loving place that I have ever been this side of heaven.  I would rather spend one thousand years in the assembly then to discuss with such people that this web site seems to attract.  “Hurting”, “abused”, “truthful”, “innocent” sheep that “committed no wrong.”

There has been some speculation whether my motives were just to DESTROY THE BULLETIN BOARD!!!!  No.  But following the reasoning that God put an end to the assembly because it did not please him, then maybe now God is bringing the bulletin board to an end because it no longer honors him.  Selah.

Look, I’ve talked to you all on separate private terms, but I am beginning to see a few simple things found in most of the people that write me.  They all say, “That’s all good, Luke, and you’re very sincere, but you’re wrong, Luke.  You’re deceived and duped.”  These people I will not call by name for the sake that this is public, but I will say this.  This is simply stupid to discuss like this.  As long as someone totally disregards everything I say, and just say that I’m wrong, it does not discount me, but it discounts them.  

This board is not honoring to the Lord.  It has taken what should be discussed privately among Christians into the limelight.  This is an abomination unto the Lord.  It is public and thus an unwise decision.  It is a carnival display for the whole world to watch and enter if they choose.  Quite wrong.

In these arguments, rarely is the Word of God used.  Mostly there are things such as “anger is needed for healing” or “letting it all out is good” which is more psychological than anything.  What does this following verse say?

Ephesians 4:26  Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath:

Well, it says that to not be angry and sin not.  Would you called suspicion a sin?  Suspecting the worse of people?  

What about the second part of the verse?  Should we take that literal?  LET NOT THE SUN GO DOWN ON YOUR WRATH!!!  How many suns have come and gone since you all began to be angry, and you STILL are months and years later?  There’s no justification or excuse for this behavior.

Here’s another verse regarding the leaders.

Daniel 6:4  Then the presidents and princes sought to find occasion against Daniel concerning the kingdom; but they could find none occasion nor fault; forasmuch as he was faithful, neither was there any error or fault found in him.

You desire to find fault with these men.  You have searched far and wide to dig up dirt to implement blame upon these men, but simply stated, time will prove that the fault is not with most of these leaders, but with those that are trying to find fault with them.  And I may be wrong but I don’t think that God smiles upon that very kindly.

To be continued...

[Luke Robinson]

Dear people, you are crippling yourselves.  You are drawn to this web site for your sustenance, trying to squeeze some sort of “healing” out of it.  Let go of this.  It is doing you no good.  REMEMBER, you have free will.  You have been set by our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

John 8:36  If the Son therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

You had this freedom all through your years in the assembly.  The argument was that the assembly used “mind-control” and “pressure” to bind you to itself.  Hmmm…  The Lord is saddened, because clearly you have not seen your freedom in Christ all these years.  You chose to come into the assembly, knowing full well that you could have left ANYTIME you wanted.  But you stayed, and now you regret doing so.  So what is the conclusion that you come to?  “It was the assembly’s fault!”  “It was that one brother that asked my to give a tithe!”  “It was that one sister that encouraged me to read my Bible!”  This makes no sense.  You have brought yourself into fake bondage like many do with sin.  

Romans 6:1-2  What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound?  God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein?

Improvise.  Shall we then continue in fake bondage, that grace may abound?  God forbid!  How shall we, who have BEEN SET FREE BY JESUS CHRIST, live any longer in bondage?  This is simply sad victimizing behavior to find a scapegoat and take blame off of one’s self.  Have you noticed what the apologies are like regarding involvement with the assembly?  “I am sorry that I let George live in sin.”  “I’m sorry that I was giving your money to George.”  “I’m sorry that I let George’s teachings into this gathering.”  It is not that person apologizing for just their involvement, but clearly, it is a way to direct attention elsewhere than themselves.  Take this example, for instance.

Example:
“Billy” and I are throwing rocks at the house.  I miss all the windows, but Billy hits one.  There are too apologetic stances that I could take.  First one being, “I am sorry for letting Billy break the window” instead of “I am sorry for throwing rocks at the house.”  

The second one being the correct one.  If there was some wrong that you did, then you apologize for your wrong, not for letting someone else do a wrong.  Clearly, this is a silly idea in the eyes of God, and it is what is numbing you into seeing that leaders that did no wrong should repent for “letting George be a bad boy.”

Folks, this forum is nothing new.  It is with every church.  Every church and gathering has its critics and those that scream “cult!”  Every gathering has its group of dissatisfied, bitter individuals.  Every group leaves a trail of “abused” sheep.  Every Christian group is called a cult by atheists and unbelievers.  Why are these called cults?  Because these atheists and unbelievers think that a God that has a will for each person to follow, and worship, not to mention invisible, it would seem a cult.  But we believe that God is real and that he speaks to us.  If you plan on remaining a Christian, you must remember that you are part of a cult, according to the passing world.  And this is nothing new.  So in regards to “cults”, my advice is this: pick one.

Now regarding “abuse”, it is basically relative.  What one may call “exhortation,” another must call “abuse.”  What one may call “rebuking”, another may call “abuse.”  What one may call “accountability”, another may call “abuse.”  What one may call “love”, another may call “abuse.”  What one may call “correction,” another may call “abuse.”  You see my point?  Judge accordingly.  And see if the assembly was as “abusive” as you imagine it to be.

It’s amazing.  The people here use verses involving words like “rebuking”, and “speaking the truth in love”, but when the leaders did these same things to these people, they were called “abusers.”  Wow.  The obvious, ambiguous confusion needs some clarity.  Surely, someone can comment.  Or maybe they’re off busy spreading “truth” and “honesty.”  

Concerning George, the man is a sinner.  He messed up and if I ever see him face to face one day, I will say this: “Hello George.  I have been praying for you.  I am constrained by the love of Christ to exhort you that you repent and follow the Lord.  I love you, and God loves you, and he wants to fully restore you.”  

That is what I’ll say, nothing more.  I won’t say, “SO WHAT DID YOU DO WITH ALL THAT MONEY?!!!”  or “YOU PATHETIC SWINE, YOU’VE HURT ME IMMENSLY!  I WANT REVENGE!!!”  No.  This is definitely not honoring to the Lord, and what has been said here concerning George is not honoring to Him that judges all.

I reregistered to say this, and this alone.  And to all of you who said that you were done with this bulletin board, and yet come back again and again, I ask you to be honest in the future, and stop this façade.  Unless, you stick to your word.  Then I say, more power to you.  

I am a brother in Christ.  I pray that this web site goes the way of the extinct Do-do.  I will pray for all of you here, that one day you will recognize your freedom in Christ, and walk away.  God Bless

A Brother in Christ,

Luke Robinson  

[sfortescue]

Acts 20:30-31
Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.  Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears.

Here we see that Paul was very emotional daily over the space of three years, because his purpose was important.

My own opinion about the money is that I am worried that George was a phony from the start and was funneling money into supporting evil organizations.  I sure hope the money that I donated didn't go toward supporting an organization that was behind blowing up the World Trade Center or other such activities.

[Mark C.]

Dear Luke,
  I'm with Heide on this one; please stop telling us how we must feel and falsely characterizing our positions here.   There is mostly a desire to encourage one another to grow in the grace and knowledge of Our Lord Jesus Christ here.  Of course this is in the context of the false holiness teaching we labored under in the Assembly, because  Gospel truth has application to one's real life.  Since almost all of us here came out of the Assembly naturally the comparison between GG's false holiness message and the grace of God in truth will be talked about here.  Is this the bitterness you describe?
  If you love the Assembly and all it was please pursue your vision and ask God to raise it up again.  If your request goes unanswered you may have your first clue that you are wrong.
  You may also ask yourself whether your affections may be bound up with a group of "wonderful loving people" and your acceptance in it vs. a clear independant knowledge of Christ and His salvation (and your acceptance in it)
   Group centeredness, vs Christ centeredness is idolatry; even a great group.  God scattered the large church at Jerusalem and all of Christianity died-- right?  No, they went everywhere preaching the Gospel, and the Gospel spread around the world!
  God threw rocks through the windows of the church at Jersusalem, and I believe through the Assembly windows as well.  If he throws rocks at this BB, then I will be glad to preach the Gospel of the grace of God wherever I can!  I will also try to help those crushed in the message of false holiness with the message that our life with Him is a gift of grace, just as our initial new birth was.
  You requested us to live our lives in freedom, yet I am bound by love of my brethren to come here and minister the grace of God (not psychology, or support of eternal victimhood).  How you could have missed the large postings with abundant scripture references and Christ centered discussion here may reveal more about how you would like to see this BB, vs. what it is in fact.
   I wish you well and if you would ever like to return and discuss Christ and His Gospel I'm sure you would be welcome.                 God Bless,  Mark
 

[Joe Sperling]

I don't know about you but I come to the Bulletin board for fellowship. There were some great threads like "Old Earth/ New Earth" and "Egyptian Mythology" that really had some thought-provoking posts in them. I TRULY enjoyed them.

The Bulletin Board originally came about from the Website which was created to expose the Assembly. It did it's job and George was brought to light and excommunicated.
Some say the Bulletin Board is here to further expose the Assembly, others that it is here for healing. But what it had come to be basically was a place where people came and fellowshipped. There were friends here to help those who might have left. And many visited with their experiences and testimonies, and many WERE helped. But it basically became a place where several different "threads" were created and people talked about literally "anything"(humor, sports, politics, kids, etc.)

I really enjoyed that. Hey--how about those San Antonio Spurs?? I'm not from Texas, but the people there must be pretty excited!!! "The Hulk" is coming out---might be good if you like special effects!! I'll tell you a good movie to see is
"Bruce Almighty"---of course, it's not Scriptural, but it's fun, and it's clean with a good message. people were literally clapping at the end of it when I saw it.

Hey---what's your favorite type of dog? I used to have a sheltie(a minature collie). he was one of the best pets I have ever had in my life. He was extremely intelligent and very defensive of my kids. He growled and barked like he thought he was a great dane!! And because of his pedigree and his ancestors actually being sheep-herders, he loved to run in wide circles around people and nip at their heels to keep them in a flock!! seriously--he had it in his blood. I really miss that dog--he was one of the best friends I ever had.

Hey--what's your favorite book in the Bible? I love the Gospel of John because I was saved while reading it. I especially love chapter 10 because it speaks of the Good Shepherd who "calls his sheep BY NAME and leads them to
pasture". He called me by name when I read that chapter once a long time ago--but I'm so very glad he did!! Figures I would buy a shepherding dog as a pet huh? His name was Raleigh(He who is of the fields). I also love Psalm 103--I love it because it reminds us just how much God loves each one of us and how far he's separated our sins from us.

You know a fun thing to do? Speaking of John---Look at chapter 1 and underline every title there is for Jesus Christ in that chapter. You'll be amazed at each of his titles---there are a multitude in that chapter. Each title has a special meaning. I bet you could spend days investigating what each name means. I also love the book of Isaiah---pretty amazing---the book of Isaiah has 66 chapters--the first 39 are almost all basically about Judgement. The last 27 are almost all basically about salvation and Grace. How many books are there in the Bible? 66. How many in the Old Testament? 39. How many in the New? 27. Pretty amazing actually---The Bible is no accident is it?

If you could visit anywhere in the World where would you go and why? Me--I think I'd go to Polynesia--it's so sunny all the time there and the water is absolutely clear and beautiful. The Islanders are some of the friendliest people in the world. I guess every place has it's drawbacks, but I'd sure like to go there one day.

Wow---you know there really are a lot of things you can talk about. I think I'll start a new thread that asks some of these questions. In fact, let's alter this very thread. Anyone want to talk about dogs, or the Bible, or The Hulk or anything you want to? It might be a lot of fun!!!

If not, I'll start a new one. Heck, I'll even talk to myself---
oops, better not, might get into an argument

God bless everyone!!!!     --Joe

[Arthur]

Luke, I wouldn't have known just exactly where you are coming from unless I had actually read your post.  Now, I see.  I don't know how you can be so sadly mistaken.

What you are saying is:

-There wasn't really much of a problem with the assembly.
-Well, George had a personal problem of immorality and he didn't make ammends with his family.
-But the real problem began when people started looking around for who to blame--first Tim, then the f.t. workers, then the elders and leading brothers.

Don't you see how wrong this is?

You did not mention anything at all about the George's false teachings, nor about the thirty years of cult practises, nor about the spiritual abuse.  Rather you say that there wasn't a problem, other than George, until people on this board starting making it a problem.  That couldn't be further from the truth!

The problem existed in the assembly.  Yes, the very same one that you grew up in and in which your dad was a leader.  The people on the board are seeking to heal from their experiences in the assembly.  The problem is not the people but the assembly and those who upheld it and the abusive, cultic practises that went on in it.

Brent did not start this board because of the abuse of David.  I talked with him a great deal before, during and after that time and he has always told me that the issue of David's abuse was just the tip of the iceberg.  The real problem was the satanic nature of the practises and teachings of the assembly itself.

You refuse to see that truth.  You wish to believe that the assembly was a wonderful place, despite clear and irrefutable proof to the contrary.  "The best place you have ever known or will ever know," is how you put it.  That is why you write what you do. It is a sickness, Luke.  You need help as much, if not more than the rest of us.  Until you face the facts, you will never move on, but always be caught in the lie.

Arthur

[Arthur]

Now regarding "abuse", it is basically relative.  What one may call "exhortation" another must call "abuse."  What one may call "rebuking";, another may call "abuse"  What one may call "accountability", another may call "abuse".  What one may call "love", another may call "abuse."  What one may call "correction" another may call "abuse."  You see my point?  Judge accordingly.  And see if the assembly was as "abusive" as you imagine it to be.

And what one may call cutting your ears off, another may call "abuse".  And what one may call stringing you up by your ankles and electricuting you, another may call "abuse".  

Well, I know I would.  I wouldn't call that "love" though.

[Matt]

 If you love the Assembly and all it was please pursue your vision and ask God to raise it up again.  If your request goes unanswered you may have your first clue that you are wrong.

This is ridiculous. I don't recall Luke ever saying that he wanted the assembly raised up again. If God doesn't raise up the assembly again, does that mean that Luke didn't love the assembly? All he said was that he loved his time in it. I believe, personally, that God broke up the assemblies to send the saints out into other churches and spread what we had learned - sort of getting us out of our comfort zone.

You may also ask yourself whether your affections may be bound up with a group of "wonderful loving people" and your acceptance in it vs. a clear independant knowledge of Christ and His salvation (and your acceptance in it)
   Group centeredness, vs Christ centeredness is idolatry; even a great group.  God scattered the large church at Jerusalem and all of Christianity died-- right?  No, they went everywhere preaching the Gospel, and the Gospel spread around the world!

And your hatred of the assembly system is your idol. Exactly I Love your last point. He scattered us and now we are spreading the vast scriptural knowledge that many of us (not me!) have acquired in the assembly.

God threw rocks through the windows of the church at Jersusalem, and I believe through the Assembly windows as well.  If he throws rocks at this BB, then I will be glad to preach the Gospel of the grace of God wherever I can!  I will also try to help those crushed in the message of false holiness with the message that our life with Him is a gift of grace, just as our initial new birth was.
  You requested us to live our lives in freedom, yet I am bound by love of my brethren to come here and minister the grace of God (not psychology, or support of eternal victimhood).  How you could have missed the large postings with abundant scripture references and Christ centered discussion here may reveal more about how you would like to see this BB, vs. what it is in fact.
   I wish you well and if you would ever like to return and discuss Christ and His Gospel I'm sure you would be welcome.                 God Bless,  Mark
 

You have missed all the scriptural references that Luke pointed out. In fact, you didn't mention one. I wonder why..

[Matt]

To me, the assembly was the most loving place that I have ever been this side of heaven.  I would rather spend one thousand years in the assembly then to discuss with such people that this web site seems to attract.  “Hurting”, “abused”, “truthful”, “innocent” sheep that “committed no wrong.”

There has been some speculation whether my motives were just to DESTROY THE BULLETIN BOARD!!!!  No.  But following the reasoning that God put an end to the assembly because it did not please him, then maybe now God is bringing the bulletin board to an end because it no longer honors him.  Selah.

These two statements are contradictory.  How could the assembly be to you "the most loving place that I have ever been this side of heaven." And yet "God put an end to the assembly because it did not please him" ?

If the assembly was so wonderful, why did it disband?!?  Why isn't it in existance any longer.  Why did people leave?

How many people did your father take part in the excommunication of to silence them when they spoke out about the evils of the assembly, Luke?

Arthur

Luke didn't say that God put an end to the assembly because it didn't please Him. He said he was following the reasoning of the bb (presumably) . So no contradiction (you're not that good at finding them... )

[Mark C.]

Hi Everyone!
  I come to the following view after a considerable amount of thought and prayer.
  I have gone to great lengths in the attempt to be patient with those who oppose themselves on the BB.  It must be apparent to all that Matt is not sincere in the issues he is raising and he has tried to play me, and others, for a fool.
  His last post does not deserve an answer, as no intelligent person could honestly draw the conclusions that he has.  I am not leaving, but advise Luke and Matt to take the advice of the title of this thread and move on to a place where their "vast knowledge" is appreciated.
   I have assumed sincerity on their part, but it is obvious they have taken advantage of me and of this BB.  The phrase, "a sucker is born every minute" supports the idea that most people want to believe that others are being honest with them, but that also there are some who have no problem with using this for their own advantage.
  Trust and respect must be earned in relationships and while we will make many mistakes, and must be quick to forgive, we can't allow the insincere to make suckers out of us.
   Individuals who come here and 'take a dive' by suggesting they're here to honestly pursue Christ and understanding of their Assembly experience, but instead only use it as an opportunity to spread the deceitful lies that GG and his minions propagated, do not serve the interests of our Lord.
  There is no need to provide quote after quote to prove these points as it appears ad nauseum in the posts of Matt and Luke for all to see.
   I will be ignoring all of Matt and luke's public posts from now on and if they wish to honestly clear up the problem I have with them I invite them to e-mail me with an apology.
    I wish them all the best and pray that God grants them repentance.                     God Bless,  Mark

[al Hartman]

THE UNCRITICAL TEMPER

"Judge not, that ye be not judged."
MATTHEW 7:1

    Jesus says regarding judging--Don't.  The average Christian is the most penetratingly critical individual.  Criticism is a part of the ordinary faculty of man;  but in the spiritual domain nothing is accomplished by criticism.  The effect of criticism is a dividing up of the powers of the one criticized;  the Holy Ghost is the only One in the true position to criticize, He alone is able to show what is wrong without hurting and wounding.  It is impossible to enter into communion with God when you are in a critical temper;  it makes you hard and vindictive and cruel, and leaves you with the flattering unction that you are a superior person.  Jesus says, as a disciple cultivate the uncritical temper.  It is not done once and for all.  Beware of anything that puts you in the superior person's place.
    There is no getting away from the penetration of Jesus.  If I see the mote in your eye, it means I have a beam in my own.  Every wrong thing that I see in you, God locates in me.  Every time I judge, I condemn myself (see Romans 2:17-20).  Stop having a measuring rod for other people.  There is always one fact more in every man's case about which we know nothing.  The first thing God does is to give us a spiritual spring-cleaning;  there is no possibility of pride left in a man after that.  I have never met the man I could despair of after discerning what lies in me apart from the grace of God.

Oswald Chambers
My Utmost for His Highest
June 17

[Arthur]

Now regarding "abuse", it is basically relative.  What one may call "exhortation" another must call "abuse."  What one may call "rebuking";, another may call "abuse"  What one may call "accountability", another may call "abuse".  What one may call "love", another may call "abuse."  What one may call "correction" another may call "abuse."  You see my point?  Judge accordingly.  And see if the assembly was as "abusive" as you imagine it to be.

And what one may call cutting your ears off, another may call "abuse".  And what one may call stringing you up by your ankles and electructing you, another may call "abuse".  

Well, I know I would.  I wouldn't call that "love" though.

"Abuse...is basically relative."  Now I've heard it all...no wait, I've heard it before--in the assembly.

abuse -
1.  To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege.
2.  To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.
3.  To force sexual activity on; rape or molest.
4.  To assail with contemptuous, coarse, or insulting words; revile.
(www.dictionary.com)

spiritual abuse - "Spiritual abuse can occur when a leader uses his or her spiritual position to control or dominate another person. It often involves overriding the feelings and opinions of another, without regard to what will result in the other person's state of living, emotions or spiritual well-being. In this application, power is used to bolster the position or needs of a leader, over and above one who comes to them in need."  -David Johnson and Jeff VanVonderen

e.g.
From the ga website:


'In the work, the Lord's servant has to make the decisions in the work. As long as it does not dishonor the Lord, that decision will be joyfully abided by. If you don't agree, you conclude that your own evaluation of the issue is not that profound or you would be in that place of leadership. It comes down to submission. You must believe it is God's work and it will be done God's way, so you don't have to be that concerned. If you have difficulty getting the voice of the Lord, then you of all people must be quiet.[1]
When a decision is made, loyalty means that you abide with [the decision] even though it doesn't please you. Do not bad mouth your brethren or listen to criticism about your brother. You don't criticize the Lord's servant in the work. Humility is the attitude of loyalty. If you say, "I agree with that," but you don't like it, you're saying you're not humble.' -- George Geftakys, tape transcript of a worker's meeting.

And there's more where that came from.

[Heide]

Matt posted on June 16, 2003:

"I believe, personally, that God broke up the assemblies to send the saints out into other churches and spread what we had learned - sort of getting us out of our comfort zone. "

God forbid that we spread anything of what we learned in the assemblies. God is not pleased with falseness. He is not happy with the way we treated our brethren. We said we love our brethren but if they did anything wrong, we were the first ones to the LB's to tattle. This is not love. It is a system. George's system. No church needs the garbage infiltrated inside that we have been taught. It has been four years since I left and I am still resolving patterns that I was taught.  Go be fed , wholesome foods! If you have to say anything, tell everyone you were involved with a cult. At least give them some kind of warning for the garbage that is about to come out of your mouth.....

Heide C. Johnson

[Arthur]

I believe, personally, that God broke up the assemblies to send the saints out into other churches and spread what we had learned - sort of getting us out of our comfort zone.

Ok Ok, I think we all get the picture now of what's happening on this board.  Over an over again it has been confirmed.

This is a place where most of us came to recover from our assembly experience.  But some people don't want to let go of it and willfully refuse to see the truth of what was wrong with the assembly.  And these people are vocal in their blindness.

Arthur

[brian]

I believe, personally, that God broke up the assemblies to send the saints out into other churches and spread what we had learned - sort of getting us out of our comfort zone.
...
He scattered us and now we are spreading the vast scriptural knowledge that many of us (not me!) have acquired in the assembly.  

thank you, matt, for this chilling reminder to all of us of what happens when we choose not to believe the truth that is confronting us. this is the strongest proof i can offer you of the essential deceptiveness of the assembly system - yourself. come read this again in ten years and you'll know what i mean. i'm telling you now that i won't hold this against you personally, provided you pull out of it, so don't be embarassed or ashamed to contact me when that occurs. i do understand where you are at, far better than you can imagine. i understand well enough to know that at this point noone can force your eyes open but yourself.

i have suspended matt's account for now because of his entrenched determination to force his fallacious agenda on us. that he could attribute the disintegration of the assembly organization to some sort of divinely inspired missionary movement shows not only the depth of his willingess to deceive himself, but the depth of his admiration for a system that has proven incontrovertibly to be at best self-deceptive, and at worst highly abusive. the assembly disintegrated due to the exposure of the corruption that had been festering at its core for decades. that someone like matt could be convinced that anything like what i quoted above is even arguable is incontrovertable evidence to me of the manipulative and deceptive forces still at work in the hearts and minds of some who have been involved with the assembly. sadly, matt has been publicly played as a puppet for someone else's fallacious agenda, but not against his will. thats another major reason for this board not to go anywhere, in my opinion.

there's so much more i'd like to say, but i am out of time, again, as usual.  

joe: i'm more of a cat guy