Assembly at my door !!!

[dan]

Well let me relate to you a true story..

I received a knock on my door and there standing before me were two young men . They said they were christians
and wanted to invite me to a bible study.
I was interested ,I questioned them how does one get to heaven and other question to seek out the truth od their beliefs.
Then I found out they were the assembly.

I said hey do you guys know Vince, oh he is a adulterer!!
(Know folk Vince has been out of this group maybe 8 years
which mean these guys were kids when he left)

So I said guys he married a woman who was divorced on
scriptural grounds !
They said there is not scriptural grounds for divorce

Then they said Matt. 5 So I read it to them whoever puts away his wife (accept for adultery ) then whoever marry her
commits adultery.. I said guy see accept for adultery ..

They said no if you marry someone who is divorce that adultery..  This shows two things here  The assembly has been talking (gossip) (lies) about Vince for over 8 years!!
And more likely many of you ex-members too !!

Second these men don't read the scriptures they
let the Assembly read in to scriptures !!!
There Leaders tell them what scriptures says or in this case
what they want it to say .....

Thanks for your time...
 (and please excuse any spelling mistakes)

[retread]

So if a divorce/remarriage occurs before someone is a believer (an assembly big wig from Omaha for example), are they still committing adultery after they become a believer according to assembly doctrine?

Well let me relate to you a true story..

I received a knock on my door and there standing before me were two young men . They said they were christians
and wanted to invite me to a bible study.
I was interested ,I questioned them how does one get to heaven and other question to seek out the truth od their beliefs.
Then I found out they were the assembly.

I said hey do you guys know Vince, oh he is a adulterer!!
(Know folk Vince has been out of this group maybe 8 years
which mean these guys were kids when he left)

So I said guys he married a woman who was divorced on
scriptural grounds !
They said there is not scriptural grounds for divorce

Then they said Matt. 5 So I read it to them whoever puts away his wife (accept for adultery ) then whoever marry her
commits adultery.. I said guy see accept for adultery ..

They said no if you marry someone who is divorce that adultery..  This shows two things here  The assembly has been talking (gossip) (lies) about Vince for over 8 years!!
And more likely many of you ex-members too !!

Second these men don't read the scriptures they
let the Assembly read in to scriptures !!!
There Leaders tell them what scriptures says or in this case
what they want it to say .....

Thanks for your time...
 (and please excuse any spelling mistakes)

[editor]

Assembly doctrine:

Divorce OK as a last resort.

Re-marriage NEVER OK, unless spouse is dead.

Husband of more than one wife--can't be a leading brother.  Exception?  The big-wig in Omaha.  In Fullerton, there is a really decent guy, who is also smart and balanced, and he can't be a leading brother, because he remarried before his assembly days.

Brent

[MichelleDJ]

Out of the blue one day I received an e-mail from an old - um, friend - telling me that because I had been divorced (even though it was on the cusp of coming to faith) I could never remarry.  He also informed me that he would never consider a relationship with me (which again came out of the blue), based on Mark 10.  

I knew he'd joined this organization earlier in the year, and every so often I'd receive some sort of communication, telling me something "new" about scripture  (i.e. Assembly doctrine).  Women should wear a headcovering, Michelle, pray about 1Cor11.  Or, remarriage is unscriptural for you, check out Mk10.  Or, there is some sort of special way to become extra-cool-SuperChristians, "special" sons of God, check out blah blah blah (thankfully, this was the last e-mail I received regarding weird teachings, and I can't remember the particular verse.)

Each e-mail was an affront to me, and to the grace God had shown me.  I had been a Christian for a short time, but even I knew his new "knowledge" was heavily based on Assembly teachings, but I never knew why or how in the world this came about.

His marriage comment smacked me like a 2x4, and wounded.  I felt like "used goods" even though it all happened prior to receiving the Lord.  I approached my church elders and they poured over everything - fact-based - for nearly six months, giving it prayerful consideration.  I am not attending a liberal, take-an-Exacto-knife-to-the-bible-if-you-don't-like-the-verse church, and I sit under very godly leadership (not perfect, just godly).  I felt led to listen to them very carefully, and then test the decision.

After a painful six months (although I was not dating (heretic!) anyone at the time of the question) they determined that I would be free to be married in the church.  I knew they'd put their hearts and souls out to God to determine this, and I was grateful.  I had struggled with how I would react to whatever decision was made, and I'd determined that if God wanted me to remain single, I would, but I would not do so on the opinion of one misguided man.

I would love to read some of Geftakys' materials to see what his doctrine taught/teaches.  It's hard to sort it all on this site.  Some folks are bitter, some are angry.  Some are defensive, on both sides of the fence.   I would also love to be allowed to attend an Assembly meeting - and I'll feel much better about this organization (whatever is left of it) when an invitation could be forthcoming.

I'm sorry to jump in the middle here, but this subject breaks my heart.  I am concerned for those who are judged based on their past, instead of their repentance and the new creation in Christ!  Sometimes doctrine disguised as scripture not only hurts those inside the organization, but has consequences outside as well.

[dan]

B. Tr0ckman

Sadly you reject what Jesus said and Paul said !!

The Bible says you can remarry a divorce if the person your are to marry divorced a spouse who commited adultery .
Also if the spouse leaves the marriage because they
don't want to be married to a believer Paul say that person
is no longer bound.

The only 2 reason none other !!!

B. Tr0ckman read the Bible not Assembly Laws !!

[Arthur]

Can someone then please explain to me Mark 10:1-12.  I see no exception clause there.  And I see Jesus giving the original intention that God had from the beginning (which was one man and one woman and that's it).

And while your at it, explain to me how Abraham had an affair with Hagar and David with Bathsheba yet Abe was know as the "friend of God" and Dave "a man after God's own heart."    

[retread]

B. Tr0ckman

Sadly you reject what Jesus said and Paul said !!

The Bible says you can remarry a divorce if the person your are to marry divorced a spouse who commited adultery .
Also if the spouse leaves the marriage because they
don't want to be married to a believer Paul say that person
is no longer bound.

The only 2 reason none other !!!

B. Tr0ckman read the Bible not Assembly Laws !!

I don’t believe that Brent was rejecting anything.  I believe he was describing assembly doctrine without mentioning his own views.

[wolverine]

Now do you have the double doors or just the one???  Did they knock or ring the doorbell???

JohnMaloneFan

[retread]

B. Tr0ckman

Sadly you reject what Jesus said and Paul said !!

The Bible says you can remarry a divorce if the person your are to marry divorced a spouse who commited adultery .
Also if the spouse leaves the marriage because they
don't want to be married to a believer Paul say that person
is no longer bound.

The only 2 reason none other !!!

B. Tr0ckman read the Bible not Assembly Laws !!

I assume that you are referring to Matthew 5:32.  This references fornication, not adultery (which is one form of fornication).

Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

But elsewhere we do not see this exception:

Mark 10:11
And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

Luke 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

There is no exception in these two verses.  How could this be?  If you take a look at the original Greek word for "fornication" used in Matthew it is "porneia" .  This is not the same word used for adultery which is "moicheia".  Porneia can include adultery (moicheia), and we have to carefully consider context, and whether the meaning is in agreement with the rest of the scriptures.  One possible interpretation of porneia in this verse would be for an unlawful marriage as described in Leviticus 18:6-18.  The items listed in Leviticus definitely qualify as porneia.  If this is true, the marriage could not have been considered a lawful marriage in the first place, and a man would be free to "put away his wife" in this case, since she would not be his lawful wife in the first place.

The only way that I can see GG approving of the second marriage of  the "big wig" in my earlier post, is if it was an unlawful marriage as based on Leviticus 18.  But I don’t believe that is the case.  So once again, I am not able to understand the Geftakys doctrine. Then there is of course that "husband of one wife" issue, unless George sees this as being one at a time...

[Ken Fuller]

Just curious -- who in Omaha's leadership was divorced and remarried ?

[Joe Sperling]

I have to say(and this probably isn't scriptural) that the teaching concerning divorce in the Assembly and elsewhere I always found to be confusing. It seems that divorce is the one sin God will not forgive in this life. "Let what God has joined together not be torn asunder"--but what if God wasn't the one responsible for the marriage at all? What if two people made a bad mistake and both realized it a year later? "Why did we do this?" Would God really say "Sorry---you both have to stay together all of your lives and suffer for your mistake, and you can never serve in a church as a leader because of this error done in your young years". I know what the Bible appears to say, but would God really say and do that? Would he really want two people to be miserable the rest of their lives, and never be able to remarry because it would be considered "adultery". Even if they both agreed that the marriage had been a mistake? Is divorce worse than denying the Lord? Peter denied the Lord but became an elder. Why should divorce be a reason for a man not to be able to become an elder?David had a man murdered and remained the King. I guess it's something I could never understand. I remember someone telling me Bob Ford could not be an elder because he had been divorced. But he had been divorced BEFORE he became a Christian. "If any man be in Christ he is a new creation, ALL things have become new". I could never understand it. This is all just my biased point of view, and not Biblical, I realize it, but I wanted to share this.


---Joe

[dan]

Sadly people like Joe Sperling

Have decided that the Bible means nothing and
Joe Sperling words mean truth...

First divorce is as any sin forgiven if you seek forgiveness .....

But Paul said because we have Grace is that a cause to sin...

Joe Sperling need to see that if your in a bad marriage
than ask God to help you....

Divorce is not the answer, God Is !!

But to many people like Joe say, God doesn't want me to
be unhappy ??  
God wants you to honor him and trust him ....
Marriage is good sometimes and bad sometimes it's life ................
Joe if you divorced just because you didn't like the woman anymore ,then you have Sinned.
God will forgive ---
But doesn't mean he changed his mind and said it's ok to remarry !!!!!!!!!

You Joe put self before God and put words into his mouth
he has never said !!!!!!!!!  That's  Sin also !

[dan]

Sadly retread rejects Jesus words because he only said
it in Matt....

Matthew 5:32.

Retread has now taken the place of Jesus (and the Holy Spirit) and said in Matt. Jesus is wrong but in Mark Jesus was right..

The writer do not and are not written the same
why would they be?
If you had word for word in each writers writting you
wouldn't need these other books ?

Also the HOLY SPIRIT Told them to write each word !!

Is the Holy Spirit wrong too!!!!!!!!

Also Paul addressed divorce too...(Holy Spirit there too)

[retread]

Sadly retread rejects Jesus words because he only said
it in Matt....

Matthew 5:32.

Retread has now taken the place of Jesus (and the Holy Spirit) and said in Matt. Jesus is wrong but in Mark Jesus was right..

The writer do not and are not written the same
why would they be?
If you had word for word in each writers writting you
wouldn't need these other books ?

Also the HOLY SPIRIT Told them to write each word !!

Is the Holy Spirit wrong too!!!!!!!!

Also Paul addressed divorce too...(Holy Spirit there too)

Dan,

You appear not to understand what I said.  Please read it more carefully.

I NEVER rejected God's Word!  I NEVER said that Jesus was wrong!  I NEVER took the place of Jesus!  My belief in the Word of God is 100%.  My entire point was that Matthew, Mark and Luke ARE in agreement.

You stated that adultery was a legitimate reason for a divorce.  I stated that the Bible says that fornication (porneia) is a reason for a "putting away ones wife", not adultery (moicheia).  I would hope that you would agree that the verses that I quoted in Mark and Luke were true.  Now if they are true, then there is no exception for what I would consider a legitimate marriage.  This should give us a little bit of insight as to what Jesus meant by "fornication" (porneia).  Fornication can be used to describe something other than adultery. I would also hope that you would agree that Matthew 5:32 was true.  But for it to be true and not contradict Mark 10:11 and Luke 16:18, then Matthew 5:32 must be talking about a marriage that was not lawful in the first place (i.e. not a real marriage).  And strangely enough, the word "porneia" can describe those acts from Leviticus 18 that would describe a marriage that is not legitimate in the first place.   Please read what I have to say more carefully, and read what your Bible says more carefully before making any false accusations.

And NO, the Holy Spirit is not wrong.  Yes, Paul did address divorce, but Jesus was specifically talking of remarriage in Matthew, Mark and Luke. Paul was addressing if a non-believing spouse left, and not remarriage.

I tried to make this a simple explanation. But Dan, if you are still having difficulty understanding this, please let me know.  It is not good for you to make such false accusations.

Proverbs 21:28
A false witness shall perish: but the man that heareth speaketh constantly.

Please hear what God has to say.  He has given us his Word.  Please cherish it.

I assume that you are referring to Matthew 5:32.  This references fornication, not adultery (which is one form of fornication).

Matthew 5:32
But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery.

But elsewhere we do not see this exception:

Mark 10:11
And he saith unto them, Whosoever shall put away his wife, and marry another, committeth adultery against her.

Luke 16:18
Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.

There is no exception in these two verses.  How could this be?  If you take a look at the original Greek word for "fornication" used in Matthew it is "porneia" .  This is not the same word used for adultery which is "moicheia".  Porneia can include adultery (moicheia), and we have to carefully consider context, and whether the meaning is in agreement with the rest of the scriptures.  One possible interpretation of porneia in this verse would be for an unlawful marriage as described in Leviticus 18:6-18.  The items listed in Leviticus definitely qualify as porneia.  If this is true, the marriage could not have been considered a lawful marriage in the first place, and a man would be free to "put away his wife" in this case, since she would not be his lawful wife in the first place.

The only way that I can see GG approving of the second marriage of  the "big wig" in my earlier post, is if it was an unlawful marriage as based on Leviticus 18.  But I don’t believe that is the case.  So once again, I am not able to understand the Geftakys doctrine. Then there is of course that "husband of one wife" issue, unless George sees this as being one at a time...

[Nate Dogg]

Thank you Joe,

   There always be critics, but it takes courage to step outside of the assembly box like that.
 
                       Nate