The God Grab Bag

[vernecarty]

could this kind of sneering, insulting, argumentative tone possibly be matt, who has been openly banned here for such behavior in the past? your ip shows you were also posting under the frank account, which would appear to be an account a few people were sharing. given matt's close association with sondra in the past, its a leap i am willing to risk. i am sick of these stupid games. your ip is banned and the frank account is banned. whoever else was using the frank account can sign up under whatever fake name they feel the need to, as long as they keep their posting civil. you guys only embarass yourselves playing these kinds of childish games in front of everyone.

i'm not gonna waste my time scrutinizing every account to see if more than one person is using it. but if you decide to share your account information with others in order to play these kinds of games, that will become clear pretty quickly and you should expect to lose it.

This guy is sharp!
On a general note, deception of any kind on the part of folk professing to know Christ is to me somewhat troubling.( I have this thing about transparency... )
I loathe it in District Superintendants, in my kids, in my own heart...
What Brian has described does not seem to be the actions of someone primarily concerned with protecting their own privacy,(for whatever reason) but in manipulating and deceiving others.  This is not good, not good at all.
If you are going to jump into the mix and expect your views to be taken seriously and responded to, why not identify yourself? The notion of posting under an alias if you have something you think important enough to voice I find strange indeed.
I like to know whom I am dealing with.
Still, VerneCarty (from the very beginning...   )

[Recovering Saint]

I find it interesting that when natural disasters strike, there are those who proclaim, "This was God's judgement!" It seems to happen every time something terrible happens: 9/11, the tsunami, and now Hurricane Katrina.

Why is this? A friend of mine once described it as people reaching into a bag and pulling out God for every explanation. She called it "The God Grab Bag" and I found it a fitting moniker.

I wonder if God appreciates us blaming Him for every bad thing that happens on earth, esp. natural disasters. As humans we search for meaning to meaningless tragedy. But sometimes I think we do ourselves a disfavor if we attribute every natural disaster to "God's judgement." The most recent thing I heard was that Hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans just two days before "Decadence Day" a supposedly gay pride celebration. I have no idea if this is true or not, it's pure hearsay. But I use it as an example of how quickly some try to dismiss genuine tragedy.

Isn't there a verse somewhere that says God allows the rain to fall on the evil and the good?

Would this suggest that God allows it, but He doesn't CAUSE it?

Here in California we have people who build their mansions on unstable hillsides, propped up on improbably crazy stilts, on cliffs hanging out over the ocean, or below sea level. It defies common sense!

When people reach into the God Grab Bag they come out with the same verses each time: wars, rumors of wars, earthquakes, pestilence etc. Sometimes I wonder: are things REALLY getting worse or do we just think they are because we have endless TV coverage?

I've been hearing about the end times since I was a nursing baby, in fact, I've lived through several End of the World predictions (anyone remember the 1988 scare? How about the Y2K bug that was supposed to bring death and destruction and usher in the Great Tribulation?)

Does anyone really KNOW if things are getting worse? Personally, I think living in 2005 is a heck of a lot better than living in any other time. Anyone care for a return to serfdom or slavery?

Elizabeth

We had quite the discussion about God's plan with Hurricane Katrina. Now Hurricane Rita could be stronger and will hit possibly in Galveston and Houston. These are Bible believing areas who have opened their hearts, homes and wallets to help the victims of Katrina. Why (if indeed God is judging them) would He do it to these nice people?

Discussion anyone?

Hugh

[vernecarty]

We had quite the discussion about God's plan with Hurricane Katrina. Now Hurricane Rita could be stronger and will hit possibly in Galveston and Houston. These are Bible believing areas who have opened their hearts, homes and wallets to help the victims of Katrina. Why (if indeed God is judging them) would He do it to these nice people?

Discussion anyone?

Hugh

May I suggest that we might better understand these things if we begin to think about the course of events in this country from a National, as opposed to a regional perspective? The destiny and fate of Nations is God's business. In His agenda, there is no such thing as "natural disaster" for He is in absolute control of space-time. The question one has to ask is what is God's purpose in all this? I for one am not sure I have an answer to that question, but that He has a purpose is not in question...
Verne

[Recovering Saint]

Verne

I have been doing quite a lot of thinking about these things and believe personally God does judge cities take Ninevah's and Jonah's reluctant intervention which stopped it for example. However I don't think that is the whole picture either. National or regional I see your point and I haven't read enough from Biblical sources to make a clear statement about that but I believe it is more common sense many times.

Example: Someone said they have little or no warning in California of an earthquake. I agree on a specific event that is true but look at any Insurance Risk sheet and you see there are areas of greater and lesser risk of flooding, earthquakes, hurricanes and tornados. The pattern is there. If you locate there the insurance for certain perils is higher than other regions. So common sense tells me unless the Lord wants you to live there or you can't get a job anywhere else "Why would you go there knowing the risks are greater." So the people of California you are warned there will be big disasterous earthquakes and wildfires don't be surprised. Florida and the Gulf Coast States there will be Hurricanes some very devasting. Midwest States you will have powerful Tornados they are imminent. New England you will have heavy snow and ice storms. These patterns are observable and people either don't know or ignore the warnings. Is God to blame for our burying our collective heads in the sand when someone says it is coming now is it God's fault we moved there in the path of these storms or whatever? I don't think so we are given a brain and legs to move away from it.

A drunk hits your car and you are killed you can't plan for that. But sometimes we blame God for things we have been warned about but choose to ignore the warning. It is convenient to blame others even God for our bad choices sometimes.

Hugh

[moonflower2]

May I suggest that we might better understand these things if we begin to think about the course of events in this country from a National, as opposed to a regional perspective? The destiny and fate of Nations is God's business. In His agenda, there is no such thing as "natural disaster" for He is in absolute control of space-time. The question one has to ask is what is God's purpose in all this? I for one am not sure I have an answer to that question, but that He has a purpose is not in question...
Verne

I was thinking the same thing. These two hurricanes will have quite an impact on the entire country.

[vernecarty]

Verne

I have been doing quite a lot of thinking about these things and believe personally God does judge cities take Ninevah's and Jonah's reluctant intervention which stopped it for example. However I don't think that is the whole picture either. National or regional I see your point and I haven't read enough from Biblical sources to make a clear statement about that but I believe it is more common sense many times.

Example: Someone said they have little or no warning in California of an earthquake. I agree on a specific event that is true but look at any Insurance Risk sheet and you see there are areas of greater and lesser risk of flooding, earthquakes, hurricanes and tornados. The pattern is there. If you locate there the insurance for certain perils is higher than other regions. So common sense tells me unless the Lord wants you to live there or you can't get a job anywhere else "Why would you go there knowing the risks are greater." So the people of California you are warned there will be big disasterous earthquakes and wildfires don't be surprised. Florida and the Gulf Coast States there will be Hurricanes some very devasting. Midwest States you will have powerful Tornados they are imminent. New England you will have heavy snow and ice storms. These patterns are observable and people either don't know or ignore the warnings. Is God to blame for our burying our collective heads in the sand when someone says it is coming now is it God's fault we moved there in the path of these storms or whatever? I don't think so we are given a brain and legs to move away from it.

A drunk hits your car and you are killed you can't plan for that. But sometimes we blame God for things we have been warned about but choose to ignore the warning. It is convenient to blame others even God for our bad choices sometimes.

Hugh

Absolutely Hugh. Your points exactly illustrate why I think it is difficult to make confident pronouncements about exactly why particular events occur.
I also strongly agree with you about the need for Christians to use the brain God gave them when it comes to assessing the risk of decisions they make. I do not believe the Bible teaches fatalism.
Having said that, the Chrisitian also knows by faith, when he has made the best decsion he felt possible for him, based on his then understanding of what God's will was, (and that is saying quite a mouthful) and is still overtaken by misfortune, that he may fully expect that God intends to make the circumstance work for good.
This does not equate with license to flaunt God's instructions and expect "it will all work out in the end".
My heart is breaking over recently hearing about a brother whose wife has just filed for divorce because of a persistent sin problem in his life. There are situations in which the causal relationships are very clear.
Good food for thought with regard to our own National destiny...
Verne

p.s so far as the National vs Regional question goes, Gods seems to take a completely different tack with Nations when there arises official sanction for ungodliness. He seems willing to delay a nation's judgment in response to godly leadership, and to hasten it when the opposite is the case...I have a theory about the state of the family in America today but the men on the BB (and some of the women!) will probably hand me my head if I go there...

[vernecarty]

Meeko,

I don't agree with everything Tom says. I also don't like how Tom says some things. But you know what? There are times when Tom does say some pretty darn insightful things. And as he demonstrated earlier this afternoon, when he is wrong, he says "mea culpa." His "sorry" may be in Latin, but it was good enough for Verne, why isn't it good enough for you?

Latin is good!

Veni, Domine Iesu!

Verne

[Recovering Saint]

Absolutely Hugh. Your points exactly illustrate why I think it is difficult to make confident pronouncements about exactly why particular events occur.
I also strongly agree with you about the need for Christians to use the brain God gave them when it comes to assessing the risk of decisions they make. I do not believe the Bible teaches fatalism.
Having said that, the Chrisitian also knows by faith, when he has made the best decsion he felt possible for him, based on his then understanding of what God's will was, (and that is saying quite a mouthful) and is still overtaken by misfortune, that he may fully expect that God intends to make the circumstance work for good.
This does not equate with license to flaunt God's instructions and expect "it will all work out in the end".

Verne

Verne

Yes I agree an example is when the Ephesians and others who found out Paul was going to die in Rome tried to change Paul's mind about going. Paul said basically I know what the Lord's will is for me and I am prepared to die in Rome to fullfil God's plan for MY life. He knew it was God's will and he knew it was a specific call and not something for everyone. If we deny the Spirit's leading we are no better than the world BUT if we don't include common sense in the equation we are dilluded or worse irresponsible. We must weigh the consequences of our actions and if we have God's clear leading for OUR life for that specific situation then WE must act on that. As said before that includes checking it with what is already found in the Word for that specific type of situation for context where possible.

Hugh

[brian]

Good morning all!

Well, I survived being called a Californian AND a Geftakys, imagine that!

Al & Verne have been very kind in their pm's to me and I appreciate that. Tom, we don't always agree, but actually, I like it that way. You're cool with me, Professor. I realize that I got a little sarcastic last night with the composite Sondra entity. Mea culpa.

Thanks goodness for Brian who intervened with the persona non grata. (Yay for moderators who moderate!)

Anyway, back to the subject at hand: does anyone think Hurricane Rita could be related to global warming? A report I heard last night said that the frequency of storms hasn't picked up in the last 100 years, but the severity of individual storms has spiked. Some say this is because the ocean's surface temperature is rising. Another meterologist said this was simply a common natural occurence (some years you get stronger storms, other years are less severe) and this season has nothing to do with global warming.

i took the liberty of tossing this post into a new topic "Global Warming and Hurricane Development", just to keep things tidy.

[vernecarty]

Verne

 We must weigh the consequences of our actions and if we have God's clear leading for OUR life for that specific situation then WE must act on that. As said before that includes checking it with what is already found in the Word for that specific type of situation for context where possible.

Hugh

Amen!
I think many would agree that one of the most onerous things about the assemblies was the way people were inculcated with the idea that they could not possibly know the will of God for their own lives without mediation by the leadership.
It was stark testimony to our spiritual infancy that so many of us allowed this vile mantra to prevail over our decision making process - where to live, where to work, and gasp!....who to marry!
In this way they magaged to convince many that plain stupidity was godliness.
I  have concluded that the thing that most disntiguished how folk fared after their assembly stint had to do with whether or not they learned to tell any would-be self-procliamed spiritual guru to take his unsolicited advice and shove it!
It is still one of the very best indicators of whether you dealing with disturbed and cultish people in my humlble opnion i.e., the level of control mania...
Verne

[al Hartman]

I have a theory about the state of the family in America today but the men on the BB (and some of the women!) will probably hand me my head if I go there...

Verne, why would anyone "hand you your head" when you've already shown that you have no clue what to do with it?!!  I'm kidding, of course!   But you can't just toss out such an inviting straight-line & expect me to ignore it.

Actually, your theories usually prove to be quite invigorating, and the state of the American family unit is fertile ground-- say on, Friend!!!

al

[al Hartman]

Al, on your posts it says, "Ancora Imparo".  Does that mean, "My anchor is impaired?"

You're showing symptoms of your age, Perfessor!  As you can see, below, you asked me the same question last year.  I answered it then, so you can look it up on that thread or you can google it.  If I were to answer it again, I would only be enabling your dependency (or so I have  been told on this bb).

Al,

At the bottom of your posts is some kind of motto.  It says, "ANCORA IMPARO"   

My anchor is stuck?   

Thomas Maddux

al

[Oscar]

You're showing symptoms of your age, Perfessor!  As you can see, below, you asked me the same question last year.  I answered it then, so you can look it up on that thread or you can google it.  If I were to answer it again, I would only be enabling your dependency (or so I have  been told on this bb).

al

Al,

I remember asking the question previously.  However, I didn't remember the answer, still don't.

Thomas Maddux

[vernecarty]

Verne, why would anyone "hand you your head" when you've already shown that you have no clue what to do with it?!!  I'm kidding, of course!   But you can't just toss out such an inviting straight-line & expect me to ignore it.

Actually, your theories usually prove to be quite invigorating, and the state of the American family unit is fertile ground-- say on, Friend!!!

al

I think I can venture this much and still keep my noggin    :

So far as I am concerned, anything that goes wrong in my family is my responsibility.

Note I did not say my fault.

Some folk who strongly disagree with my thesis do so I believe because of a failure to distinguish the two.
Verne

[al Hartman]

So far as I am concerned, anything that goes wrong in my family is my responsibility.

Note I did not say my fault.

Some folk who strongly disagree with my thesis do so I believe because of a failure to distinguish the two.
Verne

I may win a doorprize for bringing up the one-millionth mention of the assembly on this board, but wasn't it commonly inferred there that the two were practically synonymous in many/most/all cases?  Many people, with or without assy backgrounds, are so terrified of being nailed for being at fault that the thought of responsibility petrifies & immobilizes them.

There is therefore now no condemnation (fault) to those who are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit (conduct themselves responsibly before God).

al