The initial discussion was between you and I only and I worked to give scripture and lay out definitions of Hebrew and Greek, etc. which doesn't allow one to go very fast. I don't find slow and deliberate pace "tiring." I find name calling such as "stupid" irritating and yes "tiring" when the only answers your are giving are of a "3 pt ministry" style - "sit, stand, walk."
By ridiculing a person who has a different view to yours, I will only see it as a tactic to "hedge" since your solutions to fleshly sin have been sketchy at best. I have been hearing a lot about what you think doesn't work but little about what does work. If you want to control through ridicule and name calling - shoulda caught me about 20 years ago when I was intimidated by heavy-handed people who just told me they knew, but didn't actually prove they knew.
When I want to ridicule someone, they don't have to read between the lines. That's not my style.
I have reviewed my posts to try and find where I called you stupid and cannot find it.
Advising to be transparent. This advice has a sound of needing to look through a microscope to find the hidden sins of the heart. We are NOT talking about the hidden sins of the heart when we speak of fleshly sin. Sensual sin is seen and known from miles around.
Most people with deep "fleshly sin" have spent a great deal of time desperately talking with God on it, not to mention - pleaded, begged, given offerings, pledged, prayed, listened, waited, fasted, and still have had to return to their old watering holes. The stronger demons have caused people to even attempt suicide, enter mental health facilities, have nervous breakdowns, lose their sanity, act out in violence toward the people they love the most in their lives....
When we get sick enough of the sin AND when we get understanding of how to fight it, we will find God at our side. Our Will with His Will and strength in unison gets the job done....but still it is a hellacious fight.
"Have you told God yet?" - Emotions & Conscience. People who are struggling with their sensual sin are, no doubt, living on the surface of their emotions as well. Frankly, they are too noisy to really have a conversation with God - at least a two way. Sure they cry out and moan under the load of sin. Multiple fears, doubts, guilt, unbelief, anxiety, etc. turns them back into their cycle of lust for that thing that is their particular brand of sin. And the cycle continues. As mentioned before, the Conscience is in full force and is wholly uncontrolled in one who is sinning in the flesh.
A strong case can be made that the more we confront this type of sin, the worse it gets for this very reason. Pricks from the Conscience strengthen the tyrant and weaken the spirit. This is why deliverance requires the Will - coupled with the strong Will of God within and supported by the Word of God, living and written.
There is a war within and the man of the flesh is part of the combat. It is not fought without the Will of the spirit man engaging, however.
2 Cor 10:3-4 For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war after the flesh: (For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal, but mighty through God to the pulling down of strong holds;) (KJV)
The call to discipleship is also a call to circumcision or the "cutting of the flesh." That dealing with "the flesh" is part of discipleship. A disciple is a "learner" in contrast to one called to apostleship. A disciple is a young one who "imitates" the one he is following.
As tempting as it is to begin with one's experience. That is not the place to start.
The things you cite above are quite serious and evidence of a person (assuming that they are saved) who is not walking in the Spirit. That is the Biblical prescription. I wish I could offer another solution but I cannot for the Bible does not. What I have attempted to do is explain, in a practical way, what I believe the Biblical prescription is.
My Bible tells me that as a Christian, sin SHALL NOT have dominion over me. Is my Bible mistaken?
Again, I have not said that "self-denial" alone is the remedy to dealing with sin's power. I have said, as above, it is the human Will coupled with the Will of God (H.S.) and the living and written Word of God as the sword (cutting agent). Circumcision is the cutting of the flesh. The unclean part must be completely cut off and it is a bloody deal.
The sinful nature with "self" as it's root is another story. That sin must be dealt with through the pivot of the Cross (which also involves the Will, but this defeat is through death of the testator. The whole man of sin must die in that case. It's not simply a bloody little circumcision.
That has nontheless been your emphasis. I have repeatedly stated to you that you cannot kill what is already dead yet you seem obsessed with that particular mantra. Show me one verse of Scripture that instructs the believer to kill the old man or anybody elser for that matter.
Furthermore even if you cannot find such a verse, explain to me exactly how would you crucify the old lfie?
You previous statement about just say" NO" has not been very helpful for the simple reason that Paul on Romas 7 tells us it is ineffective. If you are honest, it has not helped you either Sondra.
We are told to mortify the
deeds of the flesh, and how do we do that?
We do it thorugh the Spirit Sondra. We do it through the Spirit!
Sorry if I sounded unkind. I just don't like being called "stupid" just because you disagree.
I am learnig to be thick-skinned. These things happen when talking about improtnat things. No offense taken.
I have a question Verne. Have you ever been aware of having had serious sin issues? I will understand if you say, "No." Some people haven't and really are lost when others begin to speak of their total desperation with "issues" of addiction and extreme lust/sensuality, uncontrolled appetites, and out of control passions. Everybody knows what it is to be tempted over a period of time, but not everyone knows what it is to have fed the monster over time in defeat until he has become a Goliath and then try to control him and get him to subside from the appetite that has been created. If not, you really can be casual about your answers.
Are you serious? Are you forgetting that I am a married man??!!
The answer to that question is self-evident. Why else would I be talking about this. What I am saying is alltogeher auto-biographical. I did warn you that how God worked in my life may not be the same for others did I not?
I can only share the ways in which He has shown me to effectively deal with my own issues. I believe the things I am saying have clear warrant in the Scripture.
"Confess"
"Have you told God"
"Be transparent"
"Believe God"
"He paid at Calvary" ................... band-aids.
People need real answers for their demons who have been fed and are fat and happy, feet up on the coffee table and are going nowhere.
Now, how do YOU say that "sin of the flesh" is dealt with if it is not through the Will with the help of the Will of the Holy Spirit coupled/teamed up against the "man of sin" himself. Real life experience is good, but it must be backed up with scripture for me to take it seriously. So far, it has sounded to me that everyone can just be "gentlemen" about the whole thing. That's not what happened to me.
Sondra
If somene has gone to God in open confession of Sin, and the situation you are decribing obtains, there is a very serous problem that may be beynd the scope of a discussion on a forum such as this.
Some things are best dealt with privately.
1 John 1:9 is clear as can be. Sin confessed, is sin forgiven and cleansed.
Verne
p.s.
It just ocurred to me that there has to be a serious caution given here. The symptoms you describe above are unsettling. We must keep in mind that some problems are organic in nature and not spiritual.
For folk who have dabbled in the occult, a whole new paradigm is in order. I am not prepared to talk about that at this time or on a froum like this.
