ASSEMBLY HISTORY and why it is important.

[psalm51]

Joe,
LOL ;DLOL
You are a comic genius.  Perhaps we could compile all the stories Georgie told into a book of fables or Believe-It-Or-Not Tales. Perhaps The Twilight Zone could be revitalized and you could be their screen writer.
Suggested episodes might be:
Georgie Goes to Greece Alone
Georgie's Followers Leave their Change on the Counter.
Georgie and Betty Terrorize Estes Park, Colorado
Georgie's Preaching Anesthetizes Listeners
Georgie's Seminars Leave Listeners in a Trance
Georgie's Bank Accounts Swell in Riverside

whatever

[kwelsh]

Thanks Joe,
That's the hardest I've laughed in a long time.
Kevin.

[Mark Kisla]

"I couldn't believe it" said Georgie's Mom, "I had just given little Georgie his daily foot massage, when I noticed some of my money was missing.

Joe,
This is great stuff!
You are a talented man
Mark

[glossyibis]

 :)Dear Joseph,  I appreciate your honesty,understanding and wisdom in your letter.  I too understand the people pleasing attitude, also the fear of not doing enough or being faithful enough.  I still love the people in the Chicago assembly and you need to never forget that they will always pray for you and be there for you, as you make decisions for Christ.  I do not know what is going on there in Chicago, but I pray wisdom has been sought.  I've been to weddings involving the young people who I used to push on the playground swings between meetings and I am greatly encouraged when I see many of the old faces.  We learned much about serving God there, your parents are I'm sure proud of your abilities and talents and your decision to serve Christ as you seek His face.  This would be what any Godly parent would desire to see that their child is serving God in a real way, clean in heart and ambitions and willing to be led of God.  My heart goes out to the young people who have to deal with the facts about a man we once thought was a Godly man, a man we trusted to give us Gods leading, but you know I always thought it was a bit funny that we couldn't seek Gods will on our own.  I also want you to know that I believe you can always ask for direction and counsel of your parents.  You have special parents and they truly love you, Joseph.  The young people from the assemblies will I pray learn a big lesson to live by for the rest of their lives, never to put more trust in a man than in the God of their Salvation and to really test the scriptures as issues or concerns come before them.  My heart goes out to all in each dear gathering of Gods people and my heart has felt a great loss, not a loss of george, but the loss of family, the family of God.  george g. is not who we should be gathering around and making our lives to fit around, what made the gatherings of Gods people so special was not george it was the dear people in those places of meeting.  It is the loss of those families that is so hard to live with, and yet I pray that through the opening of different homes here in St. Louis that the families will continue to heal and communicate and serve one another and care for the family even tho not meeting in the same place.  I also pray that those choosing to meet at the same gathering place would also choose to be part of the healing process.  Each of us no matter where we are will always be a part of the family of God.  I will admit I still struggle with the ugliness of george and betty's life of deception and usage of the flock, but we must all stay close to our dear Savior who keeps us and knows our weaknesses and has the very best for us.  Brethren Pray for All of Us, we were all so close now we need to pray for the best in each of the flocks lives.  Thank you Joseph, I really appreciated your letter of honesty, and I pray you will always serve the Living Savior, oh, and by the way keep up your chess skills and always love your family and confide in them as you are led.  Love in Christ, Jean Harris from St. Louis

[Arthur]

"I couldn't believe it" said Georgie's Mom, "I had just given little Georgie his daily foot massage, when I noticed some of my money was missing. I went to the window to ask him if he'd taken it when I saw him wandering in the lanes of traffic. He was walking like he thought he was invincible or something--he always likes to dress up and pretend he's the Apostle Paul you know" she added.

ROFL!    Thanks Joe, I needed that.

I never heard that story before: "Little Georgie and the Giant Hand". It reminds me of that Twilight Zone episode where the husband and wife awake in a little town with no people in it. They run around the town looking for people and they keep hearing "giggling", but can't figure out where it's coming from. It turns out all the trees are fake, and there is no one else in town. The episode ends with a giant hand coming down and picking them up and a voice saying "honey, put those humans down!! You're Daddy went all the way to earth to get them for you. Now come to lunch".

Hey, that sounds like a cool episode. Reminds me of a far side cartoon (the one where the aliens accidently put the human specimen in the bear specimen bottle. Hehehe:)
It also sounds like a cross between the Star Trek episodes The Squire of Gothos and The Mark of Gideon.

[sfortescue]

This reminds me of an old Mister Boffo comic strip in which the first panel shows a 200' giant terrorizing a city with the caption "TROUBLE" and the second panel shows the giant as just a puppet on the hand of a much bigger giant with the caption "SERIOUS TROUBLE".

[Arthur]

That's also reminds me of a ST:TNG episode called Ship in a Bottle.  When Moriarty left the holodeck simulation of a holodeck, he thought he was in the real world, but really was only still in the holodeck.  The question at the end was, "What if all of this world around us is just some simulation sitting on someone's desk?"

Kinda makes you think.

[Mark C.]

Dear- oh dear me, Joe!!!!!!
 
   POSSIBLY THE FUNNIEST THING THAT I HAVE EVER READ

             LITTLE GEORGIE AND THE GIANT HAND

      I almost fell over laughing (literally) and each time I read the above story by Joe it got funnier and funnier!!!

  I'm still laughing as I type this out and can hardly see through the tears.  I agree with Pat, "Joe you are a great talent"!!
                          Mirth is like a good medicine!  Mark C.

[M2]

For context sake I post my 'exit' email letter first:

Dear saints,

I was hoping for an opportunity to meet with various ones  individually, but since it will not work out for me to do so I am  sending this email to share with you my reasons for not  participating in the assembly meetings .

I still love the saints who remain dearly. I do not have any offences  to settle with anyone. And this is not about GG's sin, but about our  condition as ones who have sat under the ministry of a master  deceiver for the past 20+ years.

I am thinking along these lines with regards to assembly matters.

George's life is a quintessential lie.  He postured as if he had  advanced degrees and knowledge, when in fact he merely  completed a four year bachelor's degree in just over 6 years.
He pretended to be a great servant of Jesus Christ, when in fact he  was disciplined in several churches for adultery, prior to being led  to start his "ministry."
No lie is of the truth.  We know who the father of lies is; Jesus  identified him as Satan.

This state effected his ministry in the broad sense, ie his preaching,  his counsel, his direction, his demeanor, his example. That which  he preached had enough of the truth to convince us that what we  were getting from George was actually 'meat'. Like so much of what  he taught, the grain of truth it sometimes contained made it doubly  lethal.

The most striking example of George's demonic energy is the fact  that we actually thought we were following a godly man, even  Christ.  The fact is, we are/were deceived and God delivered us  from George, even though many are/were not willing for it.  God did  it out of mercy.

On January 1st, 2003 we were convinced of George's leadership as  being from the Lord, and then the moment after reading the letter  of excommunication we were convinced otherwise. The question  arises as to how much spiritual discernment do we possess after  being subject to George Geftakys' ministry for the past 20+ years. I  would even go so far as to say that we have grieved the Holy Spirit  by subjecting ourselves to the deception of George's teaching, such  that our spritual judgement is clouded. I am speaking in general  terms here, because there will always be individual exceptions to  the rule.

George Geftakys has had his hand in this assembly to such a  degree that the testimony has been tainted by his influence. When I  was saved and came out to the meetings I knew the Lord's  presence was here, but I cannot say that of this assembly anymore.  George's influence has slowly but surely lead us to the condition we  are in today.

If we humbly accept the Lord's correction in our lives then He can  work. Otherwise, He will have to take drastic action to bring us to  our senses, OR allow us to continue in our deception.

Though many of us were 'sincerely' deceived, we still run the risk of  this:
"Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy  in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your  name perform many miracles?' "And then I will declare to them, 'I  never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness.'  Mat 7:22-23

I suggest that we consider the option of taking six weeks off, or  even the more drastic action of disbanding and seeking outside  Christian counsel.

Lord bless,
Marcia

The brothers had a General brother's meeting and concluded thus:

The brothers met on Sunday afternoon, July 6th, 2003 to discuss the contents of, and our response to, the recent letter that Marcia M sent to most of the saints who gather in fellowship at our local meetings. Our conclusions as before God during that meeting are as follows:

"Let God be found true though every man be found a liar". Rm 3:3-4

The lie and deception that was George's life does not mean that God has also lied to us in light of our manner of gathering and our practice locally as a church in Ottawa.

We do not agree with Marcia that it necessarily follows that because George practiced deception that we are currently deceived in our gathering together unto the Lord or impaired in our ability to presently be led by the Holy Spirit.

We believe that the pattern for dealing with failure in a new testament church is laid out in Revelation chapters 2 and 3 regarding the seven churches of Asia. In those passages we are told that the remedy is to repent of any specific sins - not to take six weeks off or disband or seek outside counseling.

We believe that we have already taken specific steps to make the changes that we think the Lord would have us make and will continue to do so as we see the Lord leading us. We are also encouraging the Lord's people and particularly the brethren in our midst to follow the example of the Bereans in Acts to "search the scriptures daily to see if these things are so". We believe that God still can, and still is, teaching us through His word, the Bible. We believe that we are already getting regular outside perspective through the reading of godly Christian literature and books from a variety of sources as well as from individual and corporate exposure to the recorded teachings of various Christian ministries and also our normal contact with believers from other Christian fellowships. We believe that this provides us with sufficient opportunity to compare what we have believed to what others who were never associated with George's ministry are teaching.

We do not think that we have grieved away the Holy Spirit from our midst. We think that He always responds to repentance and faith and is continuing to do so. We believe that we are continuing to see the fruit of His working in our midst and that we can continue to grow in our relationship with the Lord and increase to the glory of God as we continue with Him in humility and faith in Jesus Christ.

We believe that everybody has the liberty to choose where they will gather together with other Christians without outside influence. Marcia has chosen to stop meeting with us. Although we disagree with her reasons for leaving and are saddened by her choice, it is not our desire to try to influence her to do otherwise. We trust that those who choose to continue to gather together in our midst will be afforded the same courtesy.

My question: Any comments?

"A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough". How does one remove the leaven from the dough after it has 'permeated' the whole lump?

Marcia

[al Hartman]

Marcia,
     i'm with Verne 100% on this one.  According to the burden of your heart, by all means pray for them.  But for you to pursue further dialogue with any of them presently would be fruitless at best, possibly even damaging.
     Perhaps, in time, someone of them may come to you, humbly & openly.  But don't hold your breath.  The best testimony you can have toward them now is to continue with the Lord...
In Him,
al

[editor]

Hi Marcia

I don't think you should remain silent.  Tell the truth loudly, as often as you can, to anyone of them who will listen.

As we all know, by taking the "high road," as some would tell you, you give them the floor, and they are the only ones who talk and shape the perspective on things.

For example:  In the groups that still recieve GG, they are saying that there was only one incident of immorality, 15 years ago, and that George "made it right" with the sister.  Nonsense!  There were several sisters, one of the incidents is less than a year old!  However, because the likes of Mark Miller, Rod Zach and their compadres decided to "follow the burden of their heart,"  the truth is buried, but the liars continue to speak, overtime!

If you want to help the cause of darkness, just be quiet and "follow the burden of your heart."  If you want to obey Jesus Christ, have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, rather expose them.

When Verne said, "leave them alone," he didn't mean to not have any further dialogue with them, lest you damage them...no, he meant don't have fellowship with them.

The pattern is Jesus and the Pharisees.  He had much to say, and had many interactions with them, including violence, but He did not fellowship with them.  He lodged outside the city.

The best testimony is not to "continue with the Lord," in and of itself.  The best testimony is to speak the truth in love.   Don't be silent, the Lord is using you.

Al Hartman----please don't reinforce the Code of Silence around here.

Brent

[Oscar]

Marcia,

You wrote,
"My question: Any comments?

"A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough". How does one remove the leaven from the dough after it has 'permeated' the whole lump?

Marcia "

I don't think you can say that just because someone has been influenced by GG or other false teachers that one can say that the "whole lump" is leavened, ie, that the whole church is irremediably given over to evil.   Neither can one say that a group cannot recover.  After all, a church is a group if individuals.  If one individual can recover from the effects of GG, then a group can too.

The $64,000 question is, "will they"?

My guess from reading that letter is no.  GG led them into Plymouth Brethrenism, which began in reaction to the coldness and deadness of 19th Century Anglicanism, along with a bunch of Pietistic ideas inherited from 17th Century Lutheranism.

George Givelittleandtakealotfromus was the messenger of these ideas to them, but the ideas weren't really his at all, and many of the men who worked them out were very godly men.

The history of these groups has shown that these teachings, far from producing "Testimonies to Jesus" have produced testimonies to the pride, foolishness, and hard heartedness of the flesh of carnal men.  In their minds,they are right, (about church issues), and the entire Body of Christ is in the darkness.  

They have proved to be, "better at breaking hearts than breaking bread".  (A. N. Groves, one of their founders)

This takes the form of excommunication and ugly sectarianism, as they splinter into ever smaller sects, in order to avoid the evil of sectarianism!  

So, good luck boys.  I wish you well but I fear that you have already shot yourselves in the foot.

Marcia, say whatever you please to these folks.  

God bless,

Thomas Maddux

[M2]

Marcia,

You wrote,
"My question: Any comments?

"A little leaven leavens the whole lump of dough". How does one remove the leaven from the dough after it has 'permeated' the whole lump?

Marcia "

I don't think you can say that just because someone has been influenced by GG or other false teachers that one can say that the "whole lump" is leavened, ie, that the whole church is irremediably given over to evil.   Neither can one say that a group cannot recover.  After all, a church is a group if individuals.  If one individual can recover from the effects of GG, then a group can too.

The $64,000 question is, "will they"?

Since I consider the assembly system raised by by GG's ministry as a false religious system, then the real need is to "come out from among them an be separate" and leave the system behind. Similar to a JW religious group.

The other question is with GGs ministry(preaching/books) - does the leaven analogy apply to it?

Marcia

[BeckyW]

Marcia,
The last Sunday morning assembly message I preached was in December, when we knew nothing of these matters.  It was from Haggai 2.  Contact with holy things does not make one holy, but contact with something defiled makes one unholy.  After Geo.'s sin and all other the hidden things came to light, I looked back at this passage and saw it applied.  Corrupted.  Leavened. The Holy Spirit does NOT use defiled, corrupted people who won't acknowledge or repent of their sin to raise up "testimonies" to Himself.
The response of the brethren to your letter seems irrational and even arrogant.
A brother here tried to encourage leadership to seek outside counsel and help.  Their response?  "God is sufficient for us, brother."  Of course He is. That's why He's provided some outside Christian help.
A pastor I talked to said somewhere along the line, we left grace and crossed over into legalistic bondage.   I found his perspective very helpful.
Phill

[Oscar]

Marcia,

You wrote,
"Since I consider the assembly system raised by by GG's ministry as a false religious system, then the real need is to "come out from among them an be separate" and leave the system behind. Similar to a JW religious group.

The other question is with GGs ministry(preaching/books) - does the leaven analogy apply to it?"

I think you have some problems with that "false religious system" idea.  What does that mean?

When you say, "Similar to a JW religious group" I think you are failing to make a distinction between born again Christians and non-believers.  Surely you don't mean that the assemblyites aren't really Christians.

If you mean "a Christian group that teaches error", well, there went the Baptists, Presbyterians,  Calvary Chapel, E. Free Churches and so on.  Who can we say has absolutely perfect doctrine?

So, unless you clarify what you mean, I must say I don't fully understand what you are saying.

As to "Come out from among them and be separate", that passage is speaking of Christian Jews leaving their past association with Judaism and declaring themselves as Christians.

It has been misused by hundreds of groups calling on people to leave whatever they have left, as if it applied to their situation.  But...it doesn't.

GG and the Plymouth Brethren in general teach a system of Biblical interpretation that goes back to the Alexandrian Catechal school of the second century.  It is called the Allegorical method.  The Catholic Church picked it up and uses it.

The problem is, who is to say what is the legitimate interpretation of a verse? It is no longer found in the meaning of the sentences or in the context.

 In Catholicism, its the Pope.

Among the PB's it is the dominant brother(s).  

This is the basis for many of their practices.  Doorkeepers, making people "sit back" for some minor offense, and so on.

As to GG's "books", which are actually heavily revised transcripts of his eternal, rambling seminar messages.

I think they are simply confused garbage in belong with the other stuff in the trash.

God bless,

Thomas Maddux