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Author Topic: The Bible Code  (Read 35217 times)
vernecarty
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« Reply #30 on: March 08, 2005, 06:42:20 am »


What you say seems very creepy to me.  A big part of what the occult involves is deception.  The fact that Drosnin predicted an assasination suggests that his source of information was the perpetrators themselves.0Media efforts to stand behind a hocus-pocus explanation suggests media involvement in a cover-up.

An interesting theory, but in no way based on the facts as we know them.

Quote
What I consider to be the primary difference between a stage magician and an occult practitioner is that the stage magician does tricks, but the occult practitioner does dirty tricks.  The essence of the occult is moral filthiness.  The hocus-pocus idea is a distraction and cover-up of what the occult really involves.  In fact, when someone immediately starts talking about hocus-pocus upon mention of the occult, it makes me suspicious of that person: as if they are intentionally trying to further a false image of the occult.

The era of subterfuge as regards the occult has been over for some time Stephen, in case you had not noticed.
Things occultic are now widely available for ready public consumption. There have been recent calls for the recognition of Wicca as a legitimate religion.
The fact of the matter is that in a country that has seen such gospel light as has America, those giving place to "deception" such as this do so with their eyes wide open.


Quote
It may sound like I'm saying that there is no such thing as the supernatural, but what I'm really saying is that that question is irrelevant to defining what the occult is about.  Deception is deception.  It doesn't matter whether it happens in the physical realm or the spiritual realm.  In essence it's still the same thing: it still amounts to being the ways of the master deceiver, the devil himself.
Your point being...Huh
Deception (in spiritual matters) takes place only after a rejection of the truth and is ultimately God's confirmatory judgement so I would be carfeul in how I use the term...to fail to distinguish between being fooled by sleight of hand parlor tricks and that which induces someone to embrace what God abhors is not logical...
Verne
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 06:52:15 am by VerneCarty » Logged
Oscar
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« Reply #31 on: March 08, 2005, 07:45:20 am »

Flash!!!!!!


Leo Tolstoy's War and Peace is divinely inspired!!!!!    Shocked

When War and Peace was analyzed using the methodology of the Bible Code....1998 was found to be associated with Chicago....and "Bulls" was found no less than 32 times!!   Shocked

Leo Tolstoy predicted that the Chicago Bulls would win the NBA championship in 1998!   Shocked

Oh ye of little faith....Repent.....Read the Book of Leo upon your knees.

 Wink

Thomas Maddux
Virulent Dog First Class
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vernecarty
Guest
« Reply #32 on: March 08, 2005, 07:49:06 am »

Flash!!!!!!


Leo Tolstoy's War and Peace is divinely inspired!!!!!    Shocked

When War and Peace was analyzed using the methodology of the Bible Code....1998 was found to be associated with Chicago....and "Bulls" was found no less than 32 times!!   Shocked

Leo Tolstoy predicted that the Chicago Bulls would win the NBA championship in 1998!   Shocked

Oh ye of little faith....Repent.....Read the Book of Leo upon your knees.

 Wink

Thomas Maddux
Virulent Dog First Class

We ought to run the algorithm on some of George's tomes...wonder what that would turn up...?
Verne
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vernecarty
Guest
« Reply #33 on: March 08, 2005, 09:38:43 am »

I just wanted to remind everyone that this thread is not one on theology.
I was waiting to see if anyone would post something about the actual mathematician who discovered the code using computer algorithms but no one mentioned Elihayhu Rips (or Witzum for that matter) so I will.
Those of you taking this so serously lighten up will ya?
Here are Rips own comment about the entire affair:




--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Public Statement By Eliyahu Rips


I have seen Michael Drosnin's book "The Bible Code".

1) There is indeed serious scientific research being conducted with regard to the Bible Codes.

2) While I did meet and talk to Mr. Drosnin, I did not do joint work with him.

3) I do not support Mr. Drosnin's work on the Codes, nor the conclusions he derives.

4) There is an impression that I was involved in finding the code relating to Prime Minister Rabin's assassination. This is not true.

5) However, I did witness, in 1994, Mr. Drosnin find the tableaux about Prime Minister Rabin, which now appears on the cover of his book.

6) For me, it was a catalyst to ask whether we can, from a scientific point of view, attempt to use the Codes to predict future events. After much thought, my categorical answer is no. All attempts to extract messages from Torah codes, or to make predictions based on them, are futile and are of no value. This is not only my own opinion, but the opinion of every scientist who has been involved in serious Codes research.

7) The only conclusion that can be drawn from the scientific research regarding the Torah codes is that they exist and that they are not a mere coincidence

 ) Mr. Drosnin's book fails to point out that the leading figure in Codes research is Doron Witztum. Therefore, I think it is appropriate that Mr. Witztum should make a statement about the research and answer any questions.

Professor Eliyahu Rips

If you want to have an informed opinon, at least read the book before getting your underwear in twists... Smiley
Verne
p.s Rips is no fool. He understands what it takes to maintain credibilty in the scientific community and has chosen his words very carefully. It is all in way quite amusing doncha think?  Smiley
As if any of this really mattered to our faith..he he  Smiley
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 11:02:55 am by VerneCarty » Logged
vernecarty
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« Reply #34 on: March 08, 2005, 07:31:40 pm »

Flash!!!!!!


Leo Tolstoy's War and Peace is divinely inspired!!!!!    Shocked

When War and Peace was analyzed using the methodology of the Bible Code....
Thomas Maddux
Virulent Dog First Class

Here is the real skinny:


"Wiztum is a physicist but not connected to any university, and compared to Rips, is unknown in the world of science. But it was Wiztum who completed the the mathematical model, and Rips considers him "a genius like Rutherford".
What Rips and his colleagues had done was to search for the names of thirty two great sages, wise men from Biblical to modern times, to determine whether their names and the date of their birth and death were encoded in the first book of the Bible. They looked for the same name and the same dates in the Hebrew transalation of War and Peace and in two original Hebrew texts. In the Bible the name and dates were encoded together. In War and Peace and the two other books they were not...the odds of finding the encoded information by random chance were ultimately found to be on in ten million.


The Bible Code p 22

I am not sure why they are even looking at a text whose original language was Russian. That obviously goes against any theory one would propose as to the reason and orgin of the codes.


The original paper on the subject is entitled:

Equidistant Letter Sequences in the Book of Genesis.

You probably can't get a copy of it now...
Verne

p.s. Any suggestions as to what we might find if we ran the algorithm of a few of George's tomes??!!  Grin
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 07:35:54 pm by VerneCarty » Logged
vernecarty
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« Reply #35 on: March 08, 2005, 07:58:06 pm »

NEWSFLASH!!

An exhaustive analysis of one of George's well-known works. "The Heavenly Ladder" has produced the following encoded message...


                    L
      F             I
GEORGEGEFTAKYS
       A           R
        U
         D
Verne
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 11:24:20 pm by VerneCarty » Logged
vernecarty
Guest
« Reply #36 on: March 08, 2005, 08:05:48 pm »

Oops! The computer just spat out another one...!



  T
  H               L
  I   F            I
GEORGEGEFTAKYS
  F  A            R
      U
       D

Verne
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 11:27:45 pm by VerneCarty » Logged
Tony
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« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2005, 08:20:39 pm »

I read Drosnin's book in the late 90's after seeing him on Oprah.   I figured that if it was good enough to be on Oprah... {graphic tongue}

   Verne, You have an odd way of making a point.

"If you want to have an informed opinon, at least read the book before getting your underwear in twists...
Smiley"

   Why worry about the condition of my underwear? {graphic smiley}  Actually, they did ride a little high when I thought that maybe you thought that Drosnin's book was a good one!   Accurate in theory and application???{graphic huh}


"p.s Rips is no fool. He understands what it takes to maintain credibilty in the scientific community and has chosen his words very carefully."

  I don't know, he still could be a fool.   Just not enough information...{graphic undecided}

My question is what great new revelation is the use of ELS?


"It is all in way quite amusing doncha think?
Smiley"


As if any of this really mattered to our faith..he he
Smiley
  If that is your point, I quite agree.   As you stated, it is of no use in theology and doctrine and certainly not in prophesy or escatology.   But amusing, it is.   Unfortunately, those like Lindsey and Jeffries have gotten a hold of the concept and have come up withh some bizarre claims...this bring shame to the Name.   Even people like Michael Douglas and Jason Alexander give seminars on ELS...{graphic huh}   Can't remember where I read that, If I find the source, I'll post it.

   I'm confused as to whether this is about numerology or ELS?   I believe that these are different topics.   I did find some of the sevens in the geneology of Matthew 1 to be interesting.   I of course, checked out the easiest one...total names and discovered something unrelated but very interesting.   In verse 6:
Matthew 1:6  And Jesse begat David the king; and David the king begat Solomon of her that had been the wife of Urias;
   The phrase "her that had been the wife of" is an English word inserted for clarification.   We know that this was Bethsheba but the translators did not translate it to her name.  The only translation that I have access to, which translates it to Bethsheba is the NASB.   I believe that the NIV did also.   If you translate it to her name, it blows the whole "divisible by seven" pattern.   Anyone can see that this of course is conclusive evidence for the deciept and deception of the NASB and NIV translators!  {graphic wink}
  Also interesting is the inclusion of Pherez's twin, Zara.
   It does intrigue me as to why they didn't translate that text to her

   As for the Rabin prophesy...The Israeli Prime Minister who was planning to give land back to Palestine is assassinated by a radical (maybe not the best choice of words??)...Man , who could have seen that coming?
{graphic angry}  hope this is readable as the way it is reading back to me is all screwed up!


I find this amusing...
"Some critics of Drosnin say the journalist is just "data mining." Mathematician Brendan McKay of Australian National University and his colleagues searched
Hebrew texts besides the Bible. They found fifty-nine words related to Chanukah in the Hebrew translation of War and Peace. But McKay doesn't think someone
engineered this remarkable feat for his or anyone's benefit. Since then, McKay has responded to the following challenge Drosnin made in Newsweek:
Block quote start
"When my critics find a message about the assassination of a prime minister encrypted in Moby Dick, I'll believe them" (Begley 1997).
Block quote end
McKay found assassination "predictions" in Moby Dick for Indira Gandhi, Rene Moawad, Leon Trotsky, Rev. M. L. King, and Robert F. Kennedy (see
http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/dilugim/moby.html).


--Tony

P.S.  I notice that with the new software, I can actually tell when someone is using a smiley or other expression graphic.    I included my own *expressions* within {} as that is exactly how the smiley's etc. are spoken to me.  Again, I hope this is readable.
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vernecarty
Guest
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2005, 08:38:28 pm »

O.K Tony you have hit the nail on the head.
I think it is what Al may have been trying to say and what Tom has hinted at.
The point of course is that divination, BY ANY MEANS*, is Biblically forbidden.
The existence or non-existence of the codes was nothing but a red herring.
Thanks for your post.
Verne

p.s * unless of course you are authorized to don a Urim and Thummim... Smiley
« Last Edit: March 09, 2005, 12:02:25 am by VerneCarty » Logged
moonflower2
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« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2005, 11:34:18 pm »

GEORGEGEFT  A K (Y   S)
R    E          A  L     U   L
E    N          K  L     C   O
E    E          E         K   B
D    G         S         Y     
Y    D
      E
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vernecarty
Guest
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2005, 11:41:23 pm »

GEORGEGEFT  A K (Y   S)
R    E          A  L     U   L
E    N          K  L     C   O
E    E          E         K   B
D    G         S         Y     
Y    D
      E

Oooh...! you mean there's more?!
This is one awesome algorithim no?
Verne
« Last Edit: March 08, 2005, 11:44:20 pm by VerneCarty » Logged
al Hartman
Guest


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« Reply #41 on: March 09, 2005, 05:21:29 am »

O.K Tony you have hit the nail on the head.
I think it is what Al may have been trying to say and what Tom has hinted at.
The point of course is that divination, BY ANY MEANS*, is Biblically forbidden.
The existence or non-existence of the codes was nothing but a red herring.
Thanks for your post.
Verne

Verne,

     Thanks for the credit.  Of course, cash is always welcome, too! Grin

Quote
p.s * unless of course you are authorized to don a Urim and Thummim... Smiley

     We all are acquainted with someone who considers himself thus qualified...


                                                 See,

                                               mY

                                                  Kinky

                                      ladder-stAirs

                                                  Take

                                         turnofFs

                                                 hEading

                                            wronGly


                                                   Earthward,

                                      forsakinG

                                                   Right

                                          directiOn

                                                 hEavenward,

                                           endinG
                                                   .
                                                   Really

                                              warM

                                                   

                                                   

« Last Edit: March 10, 2005, 08:38:35 am by al Hartman » Logged
vernecarty
Guest
« Reply #42 on: March 09, 2005, 07:35:42 am »


     We all are acquainted with someone who considers himself thus qualified...


                                                 See,

                                               mY

                                                  Kinky

                                      ladder-stAirs

                                                  Take

                                         turnoffFs

                                                 hEading

                                            wronGly


                                                   Earthward,

                                      forsakingG

                                                   Right

                                          directiOn

                                                 hEavenward,

                                           endinG
                                                   .
                                                   Really

                                              warM

                                                   

                                                   



Hey, that's pretty good..! Hyuk! Hyuk!
Verne
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al Hartman
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« Reply #43 on: March 09, 2005, 08:00:44 am »




Hey, that's pretty good..! Hyuk! Hyuk!
Verne

Thanks!  ...and I still haven't read the book.  Nyah!  Smiley Wink Cheesy Grin
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Robert E. Beasley
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« Reply #44 on: March 09, 2005, 10:46:40 pm »

Verne and others,

I read this book back around '97 or '98 and found it fascinating. However, I kept thinking to myself while reading it that this could be a complete hoax, and I wouldn't know it. I tend to read things like this very critically as I can tell some of you do to. Kinda reminded me of one of those great urban legends that sound believable but aren't true. Still don't know what to make of it. Guess I'd have to see the algorithm myself and give it a run. If I happened to find something, then I'd be really creeped out though.

Bob.
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