St. Louis

[Ken Fuller]

I'm going to ask a VERY serious and straightforward question to the brothers in St. Louis.

I have to ask -- because it was mentioned in a post, and because I have heard specific details elsewhere ....

ARE THERE BROTHERS IN ST. LOUIS WHO HAVE AT SOME TIME WITNESSED DAVID PHYSICALLY ABUSING JUDY???

This question NEEDS to be answered -- those of you in St. Louis discussing the future of this work here -- ASK -- DEMAND FROM -- THE BROTHERS FOR AN UPFRONT HONEST ANSWER

[editor]

Dear Mark

What you said is not exactly true.  I don't know if the men who witnessed David smothering Judy with a pillow were in leadership at the time, as they were only 19 years old.  

However, there are brothers there who did witness this.  I have signed statements from them in my possesion.

Brent

[Ken Fuller]

I don't need it "cleared up for me".

It needs to be cleared up for those who are trying to decide what men are "leaders".

I can just think back, when I was 19 and single and 'naive' -- living in saint's homes -- if I EVER would have walked in and seen a brother forecefully holding his wife down and smothering her with a pillow -- HOW COULD YOU NOT IMMEDIATELY PACK YOUR THINGS AND MOVE OUT -- that's a marriage to emulate???  That's a brother who can form the mindset of a local church???  

WAKE UP !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Whoever witnessed this, PLEASE DON'T NOW LOOK YOUR BRETHREN IN THE EYES AND DENY IT!!!!

If there was ever a time for the truth, ever an opportunity for clarity, EVER A TIME TO BE HONEST WITH YOUR FAMILY AND YOUR BRETHREN == YOOOOOOOOOOOOO HOOOOOOOOOOOOO   NOW IS THE TIME !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I wasn't there.  I don't know who.  All I know is what I've heard -- but I have heard it from some RELIABLE witnesses -- who have nothing to gain by lying.

[Toni Fuller]

Dear Mark, not that it's going to make a difference, but there have been many things happen is many assy's thru the years that haven't been owned up to. Maybe the brothers have forgotten about the incident due to the majorly lame excuse they were given for the reason it was happening.  I can only say that it did happen and I won't betry how I found out.

[Daniel Teater]

Dear Ken and Toni

I cannot remain silent anymore.  Ken and Toni you know who I am and have no need of explanation.  Verne, in case you don't know I am the son of an elder here in St. Louis. He and another brother were the first ones appointed as "leading brothers" many moons ago.  

I am not sure what you have heard or who you have talked to, but the alleged person who "witnessed" the abuse is my father.  He recently wrote a letter to Judy and apologized and told here what he saw.  What he saw is as follows:

He heard some noise. He and another brother were in their room.  They proceeded to run to the source of the noise which came from David and Judy's room.  When he arrived on the scene David was on top of her holding her down. (Not smothering her with a pillow.  Herein lies a great descrepancy.  My father never saw this take place.  I know Rachel eludes to this taking place at one point in St. Louis, but he was not and eyewitness of that behavior.)  David turned to him and angerly yelled at him to get out!  Later David explained that sometimes it is neccesary to restrain your wife if she throws something at you or trys to hit you.

This is the story that has been told to me, and I simply relay it to all who view this BB. Ken and Toni if you have any questions you have my fathers phone number...give him a call.  If you want to see the letter my father would be more than willing to sit down with you and go over what he wrote and why he wrote it.  

Lord Bless

[Ken Fuller]

Honestly, I didn't have a clue who the 'witness(es)' were, or even if it really happened.

All I was trying to say (and sorry if I got a bit emotional about it) was that it needs to get out in the open.  This is definitely a time to bring things to light and hide NOTHING.

It is very encouraging to see things like this brought to light and dealt with.  What a relief actually!!

It's relieving to know that at least there weren't coverups and gross evil deeds known here in St. Louis.

And Daniel, yes I know your father well and trust him.  He has been a positive influence in my life many times, some of which were very key times when no one else was able to go out to me.

The particulars of this incident I don't need to know or be assured of anything.  I'm just glad to see it open and dealt with.

[H]

Happy Birthday to Ken Teater!    

Love in Christ,
H

[VinnieGalati]

Hello Verne,

I remember you well from Champaign.  I left the assy. in '94 thanks to the grace of God.  I do keep in touch with some of the saints. What I understand is that each of the leadership has stepped down. A letter to that effect was read to the saints on Tuesday Feb 18th.  4 of the leading brothers stepped down then. Paul Martin stepped down 2 weeks prior to that. He always was a brother willing to step out and go in a different direction. The other 4 followed each others lead. This is information coming from an outsider (me).  I stay in semi-regular contact with Joe Babor and Gus Dodorico from the assembly.  If anyone else has information more current or more correct, please feel free to communicate that here.  I wish them all the best. Their are very dear saints in St. Louis that have given allegiance and loyalty to the group for decades.  I hope none lose their faith over this, but it needs to be redirected anyway in most cases.

[Nancy Newswander]

Dear Mr. Robinson:

I do believe the disappointment is that the Chicago and St. Louis assemblies have not disbanded.  

[Nancy Newswander]

Paul:
I am not attempting to answer for Verne.  The disappointment is one that many of us feel about gatherings that are still trying to carry on.  For me, knowing that the weekly meetings are continuing means that people are still blinded to the core issues that are deeply rooted in each place.  

[psalm51]

Dear Ms. Newswander,

Since it appears that you have been hired as Mr. Carty's translator maybe you could answer some questions for me...
First of all, what does it matter to Mr. Carty whether or not these assemblies have disbanded, since it does appear (in his ignorance) that he is dissapointed in them without even knowing any details???  
Second of all, even if they are still meeting, does that necessarily mean that they are "in sin" or are on a lower plane than Mr. Malone, er...Mr. Carty...who died and left him as the "Chief of Assembly Police"
Ms. Translator, thank you for your time...

NancyFan

Paul,
What Verne and Nancy are trying to say is that they are disappointed that there are still those who are upholding the system that George Geftakys began. They are not saying that these people are necessarily "in sin", etc...only God knows the heart. Verne Carty knows many of the people involved and has the right to express his disappointment in them. This hardly makes him some kind of "assembly police" as you put it.  Frankly, I have heard many sad stories of saints who think this website is a pack of lies, who don't think GG was an immoral man, etc. and they continue to meet in the "old" way. This is alarming and tragic. I was involved with the Geftakys' for 27 years and can easily understand the disappointment of those who see saints wanting to continue that unhealthy system with little or no change.  At the same time, I praise God for those who sincerely desire change because God will lead them.
If these opinions turn you into a PatMathewsFan so be it. I'ma TinaRobinsonFan....so there!
Blessings.

[Heide]

I will say it outloud. If you follow a man who is in sin and allow him into your home (George G) then don't you become defiled in the process? No offense folks but Brinda McCumbers story says George knew about the abuse between Dave and Judy as early as the 1970's. This is a man that you want to follow and emulate? George is an evil man and his sons are evil yet you say how wonderful and good they are. If this is true, Why were Dave & Judy moved so often? Was it because somebody might notice a pattern of abuse?

So your wife throws something at you and you can't duck? You have to wrestle with her to the ground, physically restraining her and you don't find this odd? I can't think of any reason why, if your wife was possibly hysterical that you would have to restrain her forcefully and when someone comes into the room, you yell at them to get out? This is not normal behavior.

C'mon people, catch a clue. Leaders are apologizing for their actions, something happened.

These men that you hold onto so dearly are corrupt. The corruption comes directly from George and filters down. Take the 6 week challenge! What are you afraid of?

Heide

[editor]

Dear Paul

I don't know if anyone has ever told you this, but you come off as an arrogant moron when you post.  Case in point: the way you belittle Verne and Nancy.

Verne is dissapointed, because he is a man of God, who has a concern for people that are blind to how they have been mislead by a fraud.  (George Geftakys and his servants)  Verne prays for all of you, and expects God to work a great deliverance, so when he sees that people are hardening their hearts, and holding on to darkness, he is dissapointed.

Before you go off and say, "How can say they are hardening their hearts!  Are you there?"  Let me say that from my point of view, you people are in bondage, and are deceived, blind, naked and wretched.  You may react to this, and again become a BrentTr0ckmanfan, actually I am honored by this.

However, you would do well to learn something from this, so you don't make the same mistake that we all made, later on in your life.  Trust me, I am not alone in saying that you need to be warned.

You might find that if you actually attempt to write substantive things, and think with the brain God gave you, you could learn something from people who have been involved much longer than you have.

Now, in spite of the fact that I have attempted to knock you off you hobby horse, I do hope you will continue to keep your eyes and ears open, and that you will continue on here in a mature fashion.  You can actually lift the tone considerably merely by ceasing some of the silly attacks and jabs.

Brent

Brent

[wolverine]

Alright, alright...

Dear Brent,

First of all, yes, I agree...I do come off as an arrogant moron...I'm not attempting to come off as any more than that...Nothing more, nothing less...
Second of all, you keep responding to me as though I am in the assembly...I have not been at an assembly meeting for two months and will never go in the future...I have moved on...I will not participate in the foolishness that is continuing in the gatherings...I think it should disband also...but I DO NOT THINK having a Bible Study or a time of worship in someone's home is wrong or unBiblical...
Let me tell you, I am dissapointed also, along with Mr. Carty...the only thing that I did not understand with his post was that he has no idea what has transpired in any given gathering, yet he is dissapointed???  How can you be disappointed in what you do not know?  Likewise, how can anyone who has not been directly involved with the assembly in St. Louis place any judgment on motives, actions, or anything for that matter...
Brent (and whoever else it may concern), you know plenty about the assembly that gathered in SLO and maybe even the assembly in Fullerton and all I knew about those places was what I got from you and your site...I have no idea how much of George's doctrine was used in these places, but what I do know is that St. Louis, while having its faults was a very different assembly with very different people, different personalities, different cultures, different Christian walks, different outreaches, different "meetings", different leaders, etc. etc...I cannot judge how a person is reacting in California because I cannot witness anything, and I especially cannot judge if I have no details at all...Not only does the whole "assembly" thing continue to frustrate me, but also the nerve that people have in judging motives, character, etc. etc. with little or no information...it's better to wait than speak and put your foot in your mouth, if you will...(case in point: speaking to me like I'm in the assembly when in fact I had been out for two months...I had waited to say that I had left for this very reason...) I hate to respond to Mr. Carty's post speaking of him in third person but there needed to be some clearing up...
Though I do stick some serious things on here every once in a while, I try to keep everything pretty tongue-in-cheek...
This post however has been completely tongue-in-cheek-free...

Oh, Pat...NO FAN FOR YOU...ONE YEAR!!!!

FanVoidofDirection HA!

P.S. Brent, am I more off or more on??  

[wolverine]

Verne and Nancy,

I apologize for my posts to both of you...Please forgive me...

I kind of see your points now...I hope you see mine...

Fan