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Author Topic: Skeptics Only  (Read 6589 times)
David Mauldin
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« on: June 16, 2005, 07:50:32 am »

Many people have contacted me and confided that they are "no longer believers" This is why they do not wish to post. Yet I think that it would be healthy for them to chat without the fear of getting preached at!  So,this thread is for unbelievers only! If you have any religious advise kindly post it elswhere! Thank you!
« Last Edit: June 16, 2005, 08:14:35 am by David Mauldin » Logged
David Mauldin
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« Reply #1 on: June 16, 2005, 08:12:12 am »

  I am no longer a believer in a personal God. After leaving the Geftakys group in 1994 I had to reconcile the fact that I had just spent the last 15 years of my life making a jackass out of myself and I was suppose to go on believing that 'God had a reason" for all this? I tried. I went to other churches but I kept running into the same kinds of hypocrisy, contradictions, ludicrous behaviors that I had experienced in the Assembly. All my questioning always boiled down to the same insufficient answer, "We can't understand God's plan" "We just have to  believe by faith in his word!"  This no longer worked for me! I needed to just start calling life the way I see it. I really can't see a living personal God at work in the world. So for the past 3 years I have had a much different outlook on life. O.K. it looks pretty hopeless at times, yet on the other hand there is a lot I can do about it! and that is just what I have done! I joined a dateing service!  I marride a wonderful woman. We are perfect for each other!  (O.K. she got the short end of the deal but hey, I am happy!) I have found a new interest in just about everything. Hiking, art, books etc...  Yes I make mistakes and I have to apologize to others every once in a while. Everywhere I go now I meet interesting people. Last weekend my wife and I met a couple who use to work with Cesar Chavez. (I teach a unit on Cesar) What a blast we had discussing his life and work! But enough of me!  Any other skeptics out there?
« Last Edit: June 16, 2005, 08:16:52 am by David Mauldin » Logged
vernecarty
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« Reply #2 on: June 16, 2005, 03:52:47 pm »

  I am no longer a believer in a personal God.

Have you noticed that some of the most dyed-in-the-wool sceptics have stepped back from the precipice of intransigent atheism? I am talking about several well-known members of the scientific community.
Granted that they are hedging their bets by employing the non-commital euphemism of "intelligent design", most folk would agree that intelligence is nothing if not "personal".

Quote
After leaving the Geftakys group in 1994 I had to reconcile the fact that I had just spent the last 15 years of my life making a jackass out of myself and I was suppose to go on believing that 'God had a reason" for all this? I tried. I went to other churches but I kept running into the same kinds of hypocrisy, contradictions, ludicrous behaviors that I had experienced in the Assembly.

On the one hand, your legitimate complaint highlights the seriousness of George's transgression in the way it "destroyed the faith of many". It is still nothing short of astonishing that some folk still do not understand the way God views this sort of tihing. I have said enough about that.
On the other hand, I must conclude that you are not being entirely honest regarding the reason for your stated unbelief.


 
Quote
All my questioning always boiled down to the same insufficient answer, "We can't understand God's plan" "We just have to  believe by faith in his word!"  This no longer worked for me! I needed to just start calling life the way I see it. I really can't see a living personal God at work in the world.

Here is the problem with your line of reasoning. While you are right about salvation being a matter of faith, you have made it a matter of your opinion  - "I can't see a living personal God at work in the world".

The more potent argument you could make is " I reject faith in God becaue I found the witness of His Word to be false"

If you want to be truly confident in your unbelief, you must be certain in your own mind of the latter.

Remember the basis of faith is that God is true, not your fellow man.

  But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

As long as you spend all your time looking for affirmation of your faith in your fellow man, you will in all likelihood continue to be disappointed.

Assume for a second that everythihg the Bible says about God is true. You know the score - that He so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever etc. etc. etc.
Forget for a moment the Bible as history, and the inumerable indisputable facts that attest to its divine orgin.
Forget for a moment the towering declaration of the first chapter of Romans regarding the visibility of His eternal power and Godhead in the creation.
Is it possible that in all the years that you made a profession of faith, that God Himself, never in any way  vouchsafed His goodnes, kindness, and mercy in your own life personally?
If the true answer to that question is that 'No, He never has", then you are right to be an unbeliever - not because of what you see in others, but rather because of what you yourself know personally...
I won't post anything else so other sceptics can weigh in but I just had to say something, Hope you don't mind.  Smiley
Verne


« Last Edit: June 17, 2005, 03:42:25 am by VerneCarty » Logged
M2
Guest
« Reply #3 on: June 16, 2005, 10:24:46 pm »

  I am no longer a believer in a personal God.

Have you noticed that some of the most dyed-in-the-wool scecptics have stepped backe from the precipice of intransigent athiesim? I am talking about several well-known members of the scientific community.
Granted that they are hedging their bets by employing the non-commital euphemism of "intelligent design", most folk would agree that intelligence is nothing if not "personal".

Quote
After leaving the Geftakys group in 1994 I had to reconcile the fact that I had just spent the last 15 years of my life making a jackass out of myself and I was suppose to go on believing that 'God had a reason" for all this? I tried. I went to other churches but I kept running into the same kinds of hypocrisy, contradictions, ludicrous behaviors that I had experienced in the Assembly.

On the one hand, your legitimate complaint highlights the seriousness of Geroge's transgression in the way it "destroyed the faith of many". It is still nothing short of astonishing that some folk still do not understand the way God views this sort of tihing. I have said enough about that.
On the other hand, I must conclude that you are not being entirely honest regarding the reason for your stated unbelief.

Quote
All my questioning always boiled down to the same insufficient answer, "We can't understand God's plan" "We just have to  believe by faith in his word!"  This no longer worked for me! I needed to just start calling life the way I see it. I really can't see a living personal God at work in the world.

Here is the problem with your line of reasoning. While you are right about salvation being a matter of faith, you have made it a matter of your opinion  - "I can't see a living personal God at work in the world".

The more potent argument you could make is " I reject faith in God becaue I found the witness of Hiis Word to be false"

If you want to be truly confidnet in your unbelief, you must be certain in your own mind of the latter.

Remember the basis of faith is that God is true, not your fellow man.

  But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.

As long as you spend all your time looking for affirmation of your faith in your fellow man, you will in all likelihood continue to be disappointed.

Assume for a second that everythihg the Bible says about God is true. You know the score - that He so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son that whosoever etc. etc. etc.
Forget for a moment the Bible as history, and the inumerable indisputable facts that attest to its divine orgin.
Forget for a moment the towering declaration of the first chapter of Romans regarding the visibility of His eternal power and Godhead in the creation.
Is it possible that in all the years that you made a profession of faith, that God Himself, never in any way  vouchsafed His goodnes, kindess, and mercy in your own life personally?
If the true answer to that question is that 'No, He never has", then you are right to be an unbeliever - not because of what you see in others, but rather because of what you yourself know persoanlly...
I won't post anything else so other sceptics can weigh in but I just had to say something, Hope you don't mind.  Smiley
Verne

Verne,

You are a man of faith and wisdom.

God bless,
Marcia

PS David M, sorry I could not resist posting on this thread.
MM
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Oscar
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« Reply #4 on: June 16, 2005, 10:56:23 pm »

Many people have contacted me and confided that they are "no longer believers" This is why they do not wish to post. Yet I think that it would be healthy for them to chat without the fear of getting preached at!  So,this thread is for unbelievers only! If you have any religious advise kindly post it elswhere! Thank you!

David,

It is a fact that contact with the Geftakys assemblies has stumbled many.  It also attracted some who were probably never believers to begin with.

There are atheist and ex-evangelical websites available where people who wish to "chat" in a contradiction free environment may do so.  I would, however, warn anyone who wishes to investigate them that many of the folks who post there have also ceased to believe in common social conventions of decency.  Anyone who chooses to read there will find some very strong vulgarity.  

I don't think that is the sort of thing we need here.

Bulletin Boards are open forums.  Any member can state his/her beliefs about any topic.  Other members are free to reply.

That being said, let me encourage skeptics to post here.  I doubt if anyone will "get down" on you for having been hurt by your sojourn in the Geftakys system.  I certainly won't.

But let me also say that Christianity has not prospered for 2000 years by having no legitimate answers to skeptics!  If you choose to post criticisms of Christianity, you are likely to receive a reply or two.


Thomas Maddux



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Joe Sperling
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Email
« Reply #5 on: June 17, 2005, 12:33:31 am »

For a couple of yearth I went back and forth in my beliefthth. But I finally accthepted the fact
that there ithn't an Eathter Bunny.  The problem ith, I thtill believe in Thanta Clauth though,
tho I don't know if I thould be pothting here ath a thkeptic or a believer. If you want me to
leave I will. Oh yeah, I'm kind of wavering on the thubject of the tooth fairy--I'm thtill not quite
thure about that one.

Thkippy
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David Mauldin
Guest
« Reply #6 on: June 17, 2005, 03:55:53 am »

  It looks like you guys feel very insecure about non-believers posting without your interference?  Can't you accept the fact that many if not most of the former members of the assembly are no longer believers. Don't you think it is strange that only 4-6 people post on this bb?  Can't you just allow us to chat?  If you want to preach start your own threads!  Now I doubt anyone will want to.
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matthew r. sciaini
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« Reply #7 on: June 17, 2005, 08:25:06 am »

Dave:

I have not found it to be true that most or many ex-assemblyites are "no longer believers."   I can only think of three that I know for sure are not walking with God. 

Matt Sciaini
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moonflower2
Guest


Email
« Reply #8 on: June 17, 2005, 09:57:57 am »

Can't you accept the fact that many if not most of the former members of the assembly are no longer believers.

I wouldn't consider this to be a fact. Most ex-geftalonians are church-going believers, and some are still meeting in homes. There may be some who have left God for a time, but this does not mean that they are not believers. Skeptic does not necessarily equal unbeliever.

Moonflower
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