What Does a Healthy Church Look Like?

[Eulaha L. Long]

We've been hearing a lot about the false teachings, hypocrisy and double standards surrounding George Geftaky's Assemblies.  I'd like to know-what does a healthy church look like?  I am probably not the only person who is still looking for a place to fellowship, and I would hate to wind up in another gathering similar to the Assembly.  Any input?

[Kimberley Tobin]

I'm no expert, there are a lot of people who have been out a lot longer than my husband and myself.  But we found a church almost right away that we love and the thing I like most about it is the preaching of GRACE.  We are saved by grace and grace alone.  If there is even a hint of works theology, run for the hills!

So, of course we would all agree that the bible teaching component is important.  BUT, for me......after 15 years of dry, no instruments, no harmony to be sung, I was looking for something for worship that had a great musical component to it.  You see so often in the old testament, that they worshipped through music (with instruments even! )  Everybody is different in their musical tastes (in fact one of the first sermons my husband and I heard, he used this illustration: you are either partial to hymns or partial to choruses.  It doesn't make one more right than the other.  It is simply preferance.)  Truth be told, I would probably find myself most comfortable in a lively, black, gospel belting church (I want you all to know I am mostly Irish!)  But, the music we are singing at the church we have found, ministers to my soul in a way that, in turn, I am worshipping with such joy in my heart, most Sundays with tears streaming down my cheeks.  I find myself looking forward to Sunday on Saturday evenings (who can remember dreading Sundays on Saturday evenings?)

[publicimail]

Good question.  I've been asking myself that question for some time now.  Simply put: well-balanced, good fruit in our lives (individually and corporately).

I came across these two books by Pastor Rick Warren from Saddleback Community Church in Southern California:

The Purpose Driven Church
The Purpose Driven Life

I've just started to read them and I've found them to be helpful.

Here are two websites to look into:

http://www.purposedriven.com/
http://saddleback.com/home/today.asp

Also, this is a good topical study to pursue.  Actually, I've just started to study this myself.  I'm in the brainstorming phase. I'm trusting the Lord to clear up my thinking and to get well-balanced, good fruit in my life.  

Please pray for me.  Also, pray that I'll know where He's leading me in regards to where I should be in fellowship.  Thank you.

(Sorrry for not letting you know who I am, but I'm just not there, yet.)

Just a sheep.  Email:   publicimail@netscape.net

[Peacefulg]

Hey Eulaha, along with Kimberly I will add a few (btw, a nice Mississippi Mass like choir is da bomb!)

1. Be willing to outreach with the Gospel, the great command to go ye into all the world is still there (you can see this by if they either support or expose you to a variety of missonary groups).

2. Does leadership id with the "regular joe"?  Ok, I do not want to here their/his life is a pool of sin, but I know everyone struggles, and it is nice every here and there to hear that he is letting the Lord deal with things in his life or families.  I RARELY heard things from LBs or Workers, and what was funny is that I lived with them and saw they had issues.  Before I am going to open my life to anyone, I need to know that they be willing to do the same (Christ gave His life for me, you (leader) could at least show me a sliver of your Humanity).

3. They do not make you bondslave of their work, if you want to go they say "Lord Bless You, we hate to see you leave, but God guide you!"

All of these things in my post and others to come you should be able ask freely how the leadership feels about them.

Lord Bless,
G

[Sebastian Andrew]

Greetings Peacefulg:
Keep up the good work! I enjoy your posts.

Sebastian Andrew

[BenJapheth]

First post for me...Indeed, there is life after the Assembly. I married  into a family that has four siblings still in the assembly churches, three are married to LBs and one is a LB/worker(?).  My wife came out when she was 18 - she's now 42...We've been married 20 years and have five children.  

A Healthy Church - It's not a formula, get away from that kind of thinking. Don't be afraid of spiritual intimacy & commitment, which may be a challenge for you now. However, do get rid of your old bathwater, even if you have to risk a search & rescue for the baby.  the Lord is tough, he can survive our introspection.  You have scars, but Jesus is in the healing business.  Awkwardness and pain are part and parcel to your recovery. Pain is good, it's okay, you're growing.  He's faithful (btw, revisit all your cliches - most them are in fact true!)

My wife and I are involved with a simple home church of five or six families...We all come from varied backgrounds.  Our one rule is love...Things seem to work.  Things don't always start on time, things aren't predictive, a guy shares too long, two share sometimes three, maybe four, lots of singing, too little singing...Yet, almost always it's REAL blessing, just what the doctor ordered...Love never fails.

Blessings to You...BenJapheth

[outdeep]

Having left the Assembly in Fullerton 12, years ago, I have been in contact over the years with many folks who have left.

Most people I knew turned to mainline churches of one sort or another.  Some tried to keep some of the “core teachings” of the Assembly without the control and went to Plymouth Brethren churches – usually this didn’t work out as many of George’s “exclusiveness” ideas came from the PB camp.  Others gave up altogether and stopped identifying themselves as Christians.

Most people who go to mainline churches are initially open to new things.  They are comfortable with instruments in music, the Lord’s Supper celebrated on a different schedule than weekly, and hearing primarily from the same, paid career pastor.  Further, they understand that denominationalism is not necessarily devisive, that not everyone expresses the same zeal and commitment, and that there is a place for nurseries and Sunday School.

That is the easy stuff.

The more difficult stuff is the fact that we have underlying assumptions and emotions that have become a part of us – many things that we may not be aware of – that we bring into our new church situation.  For example, just recently I was leading a Foster Care support group for believers.  I began by sharing an encouragement from the book of Acts.  Instead of reading a specific passage, I summarized the story and shared my few encouragements.

Even though there is absolutely nothing wrong with doing this, I felt deep within that I wasn’t doing it right because I didn’t first read a passage of Scripture.  I just summarized.  This would never do for Sunday morning ministry.

This is more than simply “baggage” that we can throw off.  It is engrained in our attitude, our decisions, and our deep emotional feelings.  It takes years of observing healthy church dynamics before we begin to understand and feel what healthy is like.  It was years before I stopped feeling guilty whenever a pastor would call me and want to do lunch for fear he was getting together with me to tell me I was doing something wrong.

As a result of this principle, I have observed many Undercomers (ex-Assembly folks) who had gone into mainline churches and thought something like this:  “I don’t want this church to be like the Assembly.  However, I want it to be like the Assembly.”

In other words, they rejoice in the fact that they are not dragged to long, laborious meetings over holiday weekends.  They marvel at the shiny new ministries and styles.  They like the fact that they have the freedom to minister without being micromanaged.  

On the other hand, when the pastor doesn’t give the invitation right, or the prayer meeting is not well attended, or the outreach is not intense enough, or a deacon seems too worldly, or when many do not bring their Bibles to church or there is arguments about the budget, etc., etc., a subconscious alarm within begins to go off and we become miniature Brother Georges all over again.

Be assured, that this will go away in time.  Don’t try to analyze it.  Don’t agonize over it.  When you catch yourself being judgmental, just chuckle and say, “Well, here I go again!”  It is not because of your carnal self-life or because you have a wicked heart.  It is because you have been trained in a certain way of thinking and it will take much time and observation for you to change.  Be patient with God’s work in you.

Now, here are some quick suggestions for the topic at hand:

1.   Go to a well established church with a good reputation.  You don’t need any more cutting-edge, remnant experiences.  All churches have problems, but a church with a good reputation and good attendance probably has a good government setup so that it is far less likely to have major problems.  Many have found Evangelical Free in Fullerton to work.  I would also feel comfortable at some of the larger Calvary Chapels even though I am not of a Charismatic bent (and they don’t tend to emphasize that so much).  If you are ever in the Boone, NC area, I go to a great Christian and Missionary Alliance church.

2.   You need relationships.  I know relearning correct doctrine is important, but that is not the main thing.  Most good churches will have their doctrine within the sphere of fundamentalism.  Many people who leave spend the rest of their lives making it an “intellectual” thing, constantly reading theology trying to grasp all the threads of where “things went wrong”.  However, intellectualizing things becomes a cop-out from what you really need – loving, real relationships with people.  Find a church that emphasizes a strong Adult Sunday school or small group ministry where you are relating to others on an unpretentious basis.  I have breakfast with a man every Tuesday who probably can’t articulate the difference between Calvinism and Armenianism.  Yet, he is a strong believer and we can openly pray over the struggles with our kids in an open and honest way.

3.   Take time to understand what your gifts and talents really are.  After the Assembly, I felt deep down that I should be evangelizing or teaching the Bible – these are the greatest gifts right?  Soon, I learned to broaden my horizon.  I discovered I had a small flair for writing (I edited a Christmas advent devotional this year).  It is OK to be good at administration and be able to make good, sound business decisions.  It is OK to like to have people into your home and have fun.  It is OK to enjoy working on cars.  It is OK to be an artist.  It is OK to grab a group of men to play sports.  These are all gifts that are useful to the church.  You will only discover this about yourself as you take time to try new things and hear what other people observe about you.  (I only started writing because other people told me that I did a good job at it and I listened.)

Those people in the denomination church that you have written off for years as worldly and carnal are your brothers and sisters in Christ.  Go out and learn to live with them.  Take time to heal and use the lessons God has taught you from your Assembly experience to build something better that will reflect praise back to God.

[Peacefulg]

Hi Dave, thanks very much for the posts, very encouraging.  

Two points you made can not be made enough.

1.  All places have issues PERIOD, but a heatlhly church will not cover them up, but address them and the leadership will not just give their opinion of how to fix it, but ask the body for suggestions.

There is a subtle differnce between saying something needs to be worked on, and something is a problem.   One is saying we need a slight tweaking here or there, the other is admiting to know not as we should and mean it.

2. There are a ton of gifts and ways to minster to people so yes find your gift, and for brothers especially you still need to be exercised but focus that on you gift.

Ok, I think I said to much.

Lord Bless,
G

[Mark C.]

Great Post Dave!
  "Cutting edge remnant Churches" !  That would be out of the frying pan and into the fire!
   I can testify to falling victim to some degree to the diving into theological study when I left.  I just had to know where I had gone wrong.  To go from being on the "cutting edge" to realizing I had been duped left me feeling very unsure re. what I really believed.
  Dave, you really helped me by sending me the book, "How to Read The Bible For All It Is Worth."  I had learned in the Assembly to only study the Bible in a devotional way, where the Lord "spoke" to my heart.  By reading that book I also learned about the importance of reading for understanding; how to develop a theology (a understanding of who God is and consequently what the Christian faith and life is).  Devotional study is necessary, but must be set alongside clear principles of Biblical Interpretation, or else we end up with wild concepts like man was created on the 7th day.
   I have discovered that Christian faith is very simple: it is the truth of the Gospel.  A church that preaches grace will lead it's members to growth in that grace as well as a greater knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.  A simple faith in Christ and relationships with those who are like him will lead to a healthy Christian life.  
   Some have a very difficult time in any Christian social setting.  We are not saved by church attendance rather the church is to be a place of support and help for our individual walk.  I would recommend for those individuals who are skiddish to just visit (the round church).  If you can't trust other Christians yet, just keep your distance, and try to get used to the water slowly.
  It is great to have this website and you can have e-mail fellowship with old friends who understand what you have been through and help you on the way to the Heavenly City (yes, he has prepared a place for you and he expects you to arrive).  Throw off all that false merit theology that says that we gather to earn points to get us to heaven.  Because of our past experiences we can bring something to other Christians that they can really use.
                                        God Bless,  Mark C.

[auntiefluffy]

<<3. They do not make you bondslave of their work, if you want to go they say "Lord Bless You, we hate to see you leave, but God guide you!"<< quote from Peacefulg

Please forgive me, as i don't know the proper way to quote something.  

I would agree with this.  One of the main things we have found is that it is important to be allowed to be individual with individual convictions and have acceptance for that.
Each one should be allowed to do as the Lord is leading.  
Different convictions are inevitable.  What the place of fellowship does with those differences is of utmost importance in my opinion.  {we are not talking about sin issues here, but biblical convictions}

Are we allowed those differences or are we told to be quiet, etc.   Are we continually the target of off the cuff comments that let us know they disagree with our choices?  This situation can be overblown when those in leadership may answer questions in such ways as to let others believe he does not agree with us, either.  It gives cause for them to feel free to continue jabbing.        And YES, this DOES happen outside of the assembly.  

We are now happily home fellowshipping with another family and also at times with a small group that meets very similarly to those at the assembly.   {many of them came out of the assembly years and years ago, that is why the group is similar}      But, this group has the difference in the recognition that each family is led by God.  That leading may lead us out of the current group.  They would send us off with a blessing, not a cursing, that i know.

So, to me, that is a biggie.

peace to you,
auntiefluffy