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Author Topic: I'm done sticking my neck out.  (Read 26965 times)
M2
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« Reply #30 on: March 02, 2004, 03:04:02 am »

Brent,

I understand what you are saying and I see that the sisters' testimony might help a few to actually finally excommunicate George.  I doubt that the Ottawa asssembly would benefit from their, the sisters, coming out in the open though.  Ottawa has declared themselves autonomous and refuses to be penalized in any way because of George's sin.  They claim that they were not very influenced by Fullerton anyway.  As you know, I disagree with them on that matter.

Your credibility should not be questioned on this matter, however.  Rather it should be the Fullerton LBs.

Lord bless,
Marcia
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Oscar
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« Reply #31 on: March 02, 2004, 05:54:17 am »

Oops!  I messed up the quote thing on the previous post. But, I did want to add something.

It is pointless at this time to "discredit" George and yes, I agree having the women step forward now for the reason to "discredit"  George might be ineffective.

I would like to see them step forward however so that people can't discredit Brent.  When they are silent, people can say, "Who are these women and how do we know Brent isn't making this up?"  etc. etc.

When they are silent, people like George can say what they want uncontested. They are free to abuse others.

I will gladly stick my neck out for the Rachels and Judys, but I will think twice about doing so for the ones who are unwilling to back us up and end up in the long run chopping it off.

Suzie,

Well, I for one heard about GG's adultries (pre-assembly) and David's abuse of Judy from people who were never part of the assembly.

I have personally talked with two of the "stepped down leading brothers" about the confirmation of the events that led to the excommunication of GG.

I also witnessed the assembly meeting where they stood up and told the "saints" about the situation...and answered their questions and objections.

One man asked the question, "Why didn't they say anything before now?"

A sister of many years of assembly life said, "Who would have believed them?"

She nailed it.  These folks knew who the sisters were, even though their names weren't read publicly.  You know how leaky the assembly "secrets" are.

And some still wouldn't believe it.  Or at least didn't want to.

As to the "Soaring" bunch...why would anyone care what that bunch thinks?

God bless,

Thomas Maddux
Magnum Veritas Est Et Prevelet
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Joe Sperling
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« Reply #32 on: March 02, 2004, 07:04:44 am »

This thread reminds me of my continuing fight to have Jimmy Swaggart exonerated. A lot of people bought into the charges that he visited a prostitute, but I never accepted them for a minute. He was set up I tell you. Only one lady ever came forward with her "story".

Some claim that they even had witnesses that he had gone into some hotel. What can I say to that? Plenty!! These people wanted to see Jimmy Swaggart fall. Maybe they even wanted to take over his pulpit. People say that he had these weaknesses for years. Then prove it!!! How do we even know these things even happened? A few trumped up charges, probably leveled at him by some disgruntled ex-members of his church---that's what the whole witch hunt was!!

To this day Poor Jimmy is still persecuted by those who say to beware the man and his weaknesses. He and his family have been persecuted because of one "alleged" fall and indiscretion. If he has been doing this for years where are all the others who have not come forward to confirm this??  It's a travesty I tell you. Jimmy Swaggart is a holy man, and it's a rotten shame that a few "bitter" people who harbor unforgiveness still spout their warnings about him. Leave the man alone I tell you!!! Leave this holy, wonderful  messenger sent by God alone I tell you.

--Joe
« Last Edit: March 02, 2004, 07:06:49 am by Joe Sperling » Logged
Mark C.
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« Reply #33 on: March 02, 2004, 07:47:41 am »

  I think I finally get it Brent !

   If I was going to start a major corporation, or try to accomplish anything in this world, I would try to hire Brent as my CEO!  This isn't for Brent's ears (so just tune out Brent), as I think I understand what he's trying to do here.
   When Brent raised up the website on the Assembly I was filled with doubts, but what the heck--- it was worth a try, and why not give it a shot!  He was the one that stuck out his neck and gave a huge amount of his time to do this.
   I just thought the whole thing was wonderful, but my expectations were very low, and my personal cost was just the time spent writing an article or two and posting on the glorious new BB. (when I say glorious I really mean it!  This is by far the best forum I have been on!)
   Brent did this because he was confident that certain actions will lead to certain results.  Now I don't know if this confidence springs from a natural gift he has, or if God has specially enabled him with faith to see things this way, but God has clearly used this.
   Brent knows how to call one's bluff, and if we will ever get unrepentant Assembly folks to face the facts they must be confronted.  It is a chance for them, and for the few followers still clinging to the "GG is God's man" deception.
   I don't say this as "a follower of Brent" and I still think the first step for "these Women" is to help them understand that they are truly victims and that their relationship with GG was not consensual.   (thank you Delila for offering to help these Women.  God touched my heart as I read your post  Smiley)
   As has been already shared, Paul did make public some issues in the church, and did name names; he took action in a public forum.  There is some differences to make here as some things are better dealt with in private, at least first, and then with a few witnesses, and then if it is a matter like we are talking about let our fellow Christians know.
    Writing articles and posting on the BB can provide a wonderful resource for those willing to think about these things, but with those in deep denial and/or just downright lying we must call their bluff!  
    I have recently talked with one of the exleaders of the Valley Assembly and he was very fearful that I would go public with my conversation with him.  He asked me, "brother--- let me ask you a question-- are you tape recording our conversation?"  I laughed out loud! Grin  He asked then, "are you going to publish what we say here on the internet?"  Well I wasn't going to Andrew Gunther, but since you blocked reception of the e-mail I sent you I think that qualifies as not hearing me out, which allows me to bring your name into a public sphere.
  But, why was he so fearful?  Why doesn't he want his conversation about his/our relationship with the Lord to be discussed?  I told him that he could tell anybody he liked about what I said to him.  I had been contacting his new Pastor, along with others, and he was getting nervous that he might be exposed for what he was to this Pastor (I had tried, along with others, to communicate to the Pastor what kind of group Andrew, Tim McCarthy, and John Durst had come out of.  That's another story (the pastor's response) that I will bring up at another time.
   Brent helped in this effort as well (why? he's not from the Valley) and even told the Pastor he would drive down to participate in a "reconciliation meeting" with these Guys!  His e-mails' to the Pastor were great!  Why?  He called their bluff and when they saw the truth would come out they ran and hid!!
   So, while I stick to my belief (I don't know them and could be wrong) that these women are typical of those who have been brainwashed in a cult, and are in need of some tender care first, we need to be able to act on what most of us know to be the truth, and keep the Assembly cancer from spreading into the Evangelical community.  I will write more on this last comment, as I believe as former Assemblyites we have been prepared to help our brothers and sisters in Christ in a special way.
                                  God Bless,  Mark C.
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« Reply #34 on: March 02, 2004, 08:37:44 am »

OK, here's the deal, so to speak.

For quite some time I have been puzzled at how people can actually doubt that George did what he did, both in reference to the sexual sins, and the myriad other problems associated with his ideas and agenda.

If you read my words, you will see that I never deny that the "women" exist, and I come right out and say that they all came forward and told what happened to the Fullerton leadership last January.

I said this:
Quote
I am not making up any of my claims, although I can do nothing to prove them, without "outing," some women who don't want that.  The Fullerton elders who excommunicated George did so after firsthand testimony with his sexual partners.

What I am saying is that I have no way of proving what I know to be true, because although I have spoken to two of the "women,"  I am not at liberty to share what I know.  Therefore, I can't prove anything.

Then I said this:
Quote
Nevertheless, Matt, you are correct.  99.9% of the people have no evidence to suggest that any of this actually took place other than me telling them it is so.  If I were you, I wouldn't believe it either.  Or at least I would seriously question the validity of it.  

All of a sudden, upon reading your post, I feel like the scales fell off my eyes, and I can understand what has motivated you in many of the things you have said.

I owe you an apology for many things.

Matt is stating facts, to the best of his knowledge, in his post.  He hasn't seen or heard any evidence that George had "improper sexual contact," other than the fact that I reported it, and others repeated it, on a website.  I assume he read the sentence in George's excommunication letter as well.

All he has to go on is some guy's word, on a website!  I think it is safe to say that Matt doesn't have much respect for me, and that he is generally negative in his opinion of what I say and what I have done.  So why should he believe any of this?  

Now, I understand what has motivated Matt, and I am making the leap to say that this is probably what is at the root of others who don't believe that George did anything wrong in this area.  Matt, and others, have no proof whatsoever that anything happened.

The Fullerton leaders have said exactly nothing about this.  Sure, they may have uttered some words in Fullerton at one time, but they continue singing the hymns and praying the prayers, and doing itinerate ministry and outreaching on the campus, and having doorkeepers etc.  and they haven't made a single public statement that a guy like Matt can look at and say,  "hey, I guess it is true."

I don't blame Matt for being skeptical one bit.  

Now, George's side of the story, which has been heard as far North as San Francisco and Sacramento, and as far South as Riverside is that it is all a lie, and that a palace coup has occured.

George is one of the parties named in the sexual impropriety, and he has told his side of the story.  Others are repeating it.

The other side of the story has indeed been told.....but it might as well have been told to the bottom of the sea!  No one knows for sure if it happened at all, and people like Matt doubt if the "women" even exist.

Silence on the part of the "women" and silence on the part of the Fullerton leadership means George is innocent.

I never said George didn't do it, neither did I ever say the "women" don't exist.  I also was quite clear in saying that I didn't make up any of my claims.  What I came to realize is that Matt has a very valid objection, based on the fact that he knows nothing about any of this, and has nowhere to go to find out what really happened, because of the Code of Silence.

Matt, I apologize to you for branding you in a negative light, when all  along you had valid doubts about this aspect of what I was saying.

I accused you of ignoring the truth,  when in fact you were only exercising healthy skepticism.

I also understand a good part of the reason why people in San Francisco, Riverside and Sacramento believe George's side of the story.

There really is no other side due to the fact that the "women," and those they spoke to haven't given any information to the contrary.

George has said that Mark Miller and some "other Brethren," trumped up charges against him, and drug a sister out of the past in order to build a case against him in order to take over the ministry.  He also named his son Timothy "Absalom," in reference to David's son who conspired with Ahithophel, David's chief counselor to usurp the throne.

That is George's story and if you look in Fullerton, Placentia, West LA and Goleta you see that the men George named are leading their Assemblies, with Tim Geftakys back on the campus at Fullerton College, just like the old days.

Perhaps this represents what is being said by Assembly sympathizers,  "If things were so horrible, what are they doing by continuing to meet?  It looks to me like George's story is true, because they certainly haven't said anything to contradict him."

Again, regardless of whether or not George did anything wrong, he is innocent, because no one has said anything to substantiate the accusations against him.  

I also heard today that the Fullerton leadership are "hurt" by what I have said, saying they aren't to be trusted and made things up.  

I guess they could clear up a few things if someone down there would actually say something.  But they won't, because they don't want to shake the house of cards they are so carefully tending.  At least that is my opinion.

I do know that George's sin was explained in great detail by those women.  However, Matt doesn't know this, and I can't give him any proof.

Others can, but they don't, for one reason or another.

I said this:
Quote
Just because I know it to be true doesn't make it so.  Afterall, I never had sex with him.

Yes, I do know that George did something wrong.  I know it is true.  However, he didn't do "it" to me personally, so I can't prove anything.  Therefore he is innocent.

OJ is also innocent.  He is free to come and go where he pleases, even though it is pretty plain that he committed murder.  Notwithstanding, he is innocent.  Same with George.

So, why am I saying all this?

It's because I want people to understand that as long as they remain silent with the truth,  people like George have free reign to whatever they want and say whatever they say.  

People like Matt are absolutely correct in being suspicious.

People like me are taking risks by saying something I can't prove.  (perhaps I could prove it if I forced the women to testify via a subpoena, but that is extremely unlikely to happen)

Now, to Poker.

Am I playing a game?  Yes and no.  

My objective since day one has been to expose the unfuitful works of darkness that surround Geftakys and his group.

To use Poker terminology, I was being dealt great hands and drawing full houses on the flop.  

Now, due to the silence coming out of Fullerton, and the understandable reluctance of the women involved to say anything,  I am holding an unsuited 7,2,  and my opponent appears to have a high pair in the pocket.

What do I do?

I hope to draw a winning hand, but I might have to fold.  I could always bluff, but I might get called.  I could bet in order to see what the other side has and then make my decision...

or perhaps I have a miracle hand and I am sandbagging.  Which is it?

We don't know yet, do we.

Until something is said that lends credibility to the accusations of George's adultery, he is innocent.

Now, if it should come out that he is indeed guilty, it's another story altogether.

I didn't stary this topic over here, and I would really like to get back to what I was doing before ASAP, but I will be happy to answer questions if anyone has them.

Brent
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« Reply #35 on: March 02, 2004, 09:33:01 am »

 I think I finally get it Brent !

   If I was going to start a major corporation, or try to accomplish anything in this world, I would try to hire Brent as my CEO!  This isn't for Brent's ears (so just tune out Brent), as I think I understand what he's trying to do here.
   When Brent raised up the website on the Assembly I was filled with doubts, but what the heck--- it was worth a try, and why not give it a shot!  He was the one that stuck out his neck and gave a huge amount of his time to do this.
   I just thought the whole thing was wonderful, but my expectations were very low, and my personal cost was just the time spent writing an article or two and posting on the glorious new BB. (when I say glorious I really mean it!  This is by far the best forum I have been on!)
   Brent did this because he was confident that certain actions will lead to certain results.  Now I don't know if this confidence springs from a natural gift he has, or if God has specially enabled him with faith to see things this way, but God has clearly used this.
   Brent knows how to call one's bluff, and if we will ever get unrepentant Assembly folks to face the facts they must be confronted.  It is a chance for them, and for the few followers still clinging to the "GG is God's man" deception.
   I don't say this as "a follower of Brent" and I still think the first step for "these Women" is to help them understand that they are truly victims and that their relationship with GG was not consensual.   (thank you Delila for offering to help these Women.  God touched my heart as I read your post  Smiley)
   As has been already shared, Paul did make public some issues in the church, and did name names; he took action in a public forum.  There is some differences to make here as some things are better dealt with in private, at least first, and then with a few witnesses, and then if it is a matter like we are talking about let our fellow Christians know.
    Writing articles and posting on the BB can provide a wonderful resource for those willing to think about these things, but with those in deep denial and/or just downright lying we must call their bluff!  
    I have recently talked with one of the exleaders of the Valley Assembly and he was very fearful that I would go public with my conversation with him.  He asked me, "brother--- let me ask you a question-- are you tape recording our conversation?"  I laughed out loud! Grin  He asked then, "are you going to publish what we say here on the internet?"  Well I wasn't going to Andrew Gunther, but since you blocked reception of the e-mail I sent you I think that qualifies as not hearing me out, which allows me to bring your name into a public sphere.
  But, why was he so fearful?  Why doesn't he want his conversation about his/our relationship with the Lord to be discussed?  I told him that he could tell anybody he liked about what I said to him.  I had been contacting his new Pastor, along with others, and he was getting nervous that he might be exposed for what he was to this Pastor (I had tried, along with others, to communicate to the Pastor what kind of group Andrew, Tim McCarthy, and John Durst had come out of.  That's another story (the pastor's response) that I will bring up at another time.
   Brent helped in this effort as well (why? he's not from the Valley) and even told the Pastor he would drive down to participate in a "reconciliation meeting" with these Guys!  His e-mails' to the Pastor were great!  Why?  He called their bluff and when they saw the truth would come out they ran and hid!!
   So, while I stick to my belief (I don't know them and could be wrong) that these women are typical of those who have been brainwashed in a cult, and are in need of some tender care first, we need to be able to act on what most of us know to be the truth, and keep the Assembly cancer from spreading into the Evangelical community.  I will write more on this last comment, as I believe as former Assemblyites we have been prepared to help our brothers and sisters in Christ in a special way.
                                  God Bless,  Mark C.

Pretty good Mark.

Who's bluffing?  Who has the best cards?  You don't know until the showdown do you.  

I am not trying to get the "women" to talk, although I would be happy if they did.  

I think it is time that those that spoke for the "women" talk.  If they don't, they are going to have trouble.

Jeff lehmkuhl is attending seminars with the SF "saints,"  is Wes Cohen going to as well?  I don't know, but Wes and Scott were once very close.  I have no knowledge about Wes going up there, and would be shocked to hear that he did, but his Bro. in law did.

Wes goes down to Fullerton and Placentia on itinerary...yet Wes stepped down as a leader in Goleta.....or did he?

Tim stepped down, but he getting more involved and is obviously a leader, whether he calls himself one or not.

These guys, by their silence and total lack of clarity about where they stand are allowing George to paint them as usurpers, and are allowing him to spin everything to where he is innocent.

Let's face it, if it wasn't for the website, they would all still be bowing down before George and saying, "Amen, Praise the Lord," every time George said something.  

Now, they are in a position where they need to step up and say something, or else be totally discredited.  Their past demonstrates that they lied about people before, and failed to discern the plain truth many times over.  

Now, they excommunicate their master, who taught them everything they know, and then they go dark and silent and go on to manage George's kingdom in his absence!  Was it an evil man who created a glorious testimony to Jesus?  I think not.

I think an evil man created an evil little world, and they are torn between their love of it, and the truth about it.  

Well, their fence sitting and silence is allowing George to rebuild, and his loyal followers to press on, claiming that Mark Miller led an ouster against George while his own son is Absalom.

There is no evidence to contradict George's story.....at least none that has been said out loud.  Sure, words have been carefully said, and meanings have been alluded to in confidential, secret meetings among "downstepped" leaders,  but no statement of wrong doing, no explanation about George's excommunication, no clarification of past wrongs....nothing has been said about what they believe.

Am I saying it has to be said on a website?

No, although that would make the most sense.  If it was said publicly, then we could talk about it and understand that it was true.

If Mark Miller came out and said,  "We did speak with several sisters in great detail and can assure you that George is guilty of adultery,"  then people like Matt could understand.  

But Matt hasn't heard anything about that, and neither have any of you.

George is innocent, and his version of events seems to line up with reality at this time.

Brent
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M2
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« Reply #36 on: March 02, 2004, 07:06:12 pm »

...
I also heard today that the Fullerton leadership are "hurt" by what I have said, saying they aren't to be trusted and made things up.  
...

Statements like this really get to me.  The leaders are hurt??  Amazing!!  First of all, where is that rhinocerous skin that they boasted they had.  Secondly, what of all the "hurt" they have dished out over the years on the sheep and now they can't take it, the truth, about themselves??  ARGH!!

How many lives have been mis-directed and ruined because of their counsel?  How many times did they unjustly counsel and when the sheep attempted to clarify they accused the sheep of trying to justify themselves?  How many times did they treat the sheep unkindly to train us to go the way of the cross?  How many wounded pilgrims are out there still suffering even after 1, 5, 10, 20+ years of having left the assembly?  How many still suffer anxiety attacks and nightmares?  How many marriages remain dysfunctional because of unhealthy marriage counselling?  How many husbands are still lamenting because thay cannot control their wives any more?  How many are poorer now because of all the money they gave to Geftakys and his servants, while they 'the trainers' live in homes that are paid off, those that they 'trained' are still paying off their own mortgages?  How many do the leaders have a 'hold' over because of knowledge received in counselling sessions?

I know there's more, but I think you get the point.
Marcia
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Margaret
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« Reply #37 on: March 02, 2004, 08:31:44 pm »

Re. leaders being "so hurt" --
People told us that is what George said when we left.  It is an expression of deep narcissism.  What happened was interpreted entirely as a narcissistic injury of rejection.  It shows complete and total lack of empathy for what was going on, which is what you are describing, Marcia.  So what does it say about these leaders now?  They imbibed gg's narcissism - scary scary thought.  Read the new articles on evil on ga.com.
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« Reply #38 on: March 02, 2004, 08:52:10 pm »

Re. leaders being "so hurt" --
People told us that is what George said when we left.  It is an expression of deep narcissism.  What happened was interpreted entirely as a narcissistic injury of rejection.  It shows complete and total lack of empathy for what was going on, which is what you are describing, Marcia.  So what does it say about these leaders now?  They imbibed gg's narcissism - scary scary thought.  Read the new articles on evil on ga.com.

I second what Margaret just said.

virtually all of the ex-LB's and workers who haven't made clear public statements of repentance or remorse have become George.  

Especially Mark Miller, Tim G.  Jeff Lehmkuhl, Roberto Sanchez, McCallister, Testa, McCarthy, Matsen-Boze and a few others.

Folks, I wouldn't be surprised if George was preaching again in Fullerton and Placentia.  Yeah, maybe Mark would whimper some words of protest before he slunk away into several years of being dissappointed by "worldly" churches, but he certainly won't stand against George.

To quote from Margaret's article:

Peck also makes this statement:  "Evil...is dangerous.  It will contaminate or otherwise destroy a person who remains too long in its presence."  It may be debatable to what degree George Geftakys is evil, but the characteristics of evil in his life are unmistakable, and many of us were exposed for a long time.  All of us, therefore, but especially former workers, need to ask ourselves not just have we been hurt or abused by George but, "How by dependency and passivity have I become like him and taken on the characteristics of evil? Have I become even a little bit like George?"  


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Did I become less truthful?

More ready to excuse a lie?  To think that a lie is sometimes justified for a "good" reason?  To lie to get my way?  To lie to control someone, or control a situation, perhaps to someone else's detriment?

Did I become more controlling?

Did I learn to use my rightness as an excuse to become more justified in insisting on my way?  To be discourteous and contemptuous to win a point?  To override the opinions or preferences of others to have the last word?  To set things up so that I am the gatekeeper of information and access?

Did I become more willful?  

Especially in protecting my "innocence", and especially protecting it to someone else's detriment, maybe my family, or others who need an apology from me?

Have I become less able to see my own faults and sins, less willing to admit them?

Did I become less subject to the laws of the land?  More inclined to cut corners in my business ethics, my taxes, my driving?  Inclined to borrow and not return?  Inclined to make agreements and excuse not keep them?

Did I learn to scapegoat?

Shift the focus onto someone else's perceived failings, and away from mine?  Become more ready to accuse others of evil, less ready to see it in myself?

Did I become less empathetic, more narcissistic?

Imposing my rightness on others instead of listening and understanding them?  More focused on what people think of me?  Has this led to a blurring of sexual boundaries, to "innocent" flirtation?

Did I become more passive or dependent?  

Less able to make decisions on my own?  Was I possibly in thrall to an evil person?  Has this led to an inability to say no, or to keep appropriate boundaries, perhaps sexual boundaries?

Have I become more secretive?

Have I become less open?  Did I develop a disguise to cloak my true self, or my motives?  What is my motivation?

Do I now need to seek God's grace to reverse the direction of my life in some of these areas?


These guys are not seeking God's grace, by keeping George's meetings going.  In fact, although some of them won't admit it, what they are seeking is the very evil that George provided them.  It's only a matter of time until they get back into it.

Jeff Lehmkuhl has openly declared that he is back in the "ministry,"  apparently Scott Testa has become enough like George that he is able to give these addicts the fix they require.

Can you imagine being so weak as Mark Miller and some of these others?  They heard first hand what sort of scoundrel George had been right under their noses.  They have signed statements from several women whom George defiled and carried on with, and yet they allow him to say, unchecked, that they made it all up!

They won't utter a word in their defense.

George couldn't buy better friends.  He trained them well.  Cowards and sick addicts will do anything for another fix, and they be plentiful among the Geftakys followers.

Brent
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BeckyW
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« Reply #39 on: March 02, 2004, 09:30:05 pm »

Please, everyone do carefully read those articles on evil as Margaret says.  Read the Scapegoating section for a very good description of what happened in the still existing Annandale assembly last year when members tried to talk to leadership about their problems.  
See the Intellectual Deviousness part about the resulting confusion of long association with an evil person. C-o-n-f-u-s-i-o-n.  That describes the state of mind of a number of these folks.  I experienced it myself many times while in the assembly.  Things weren't right but I couldn't explain why.
See the Coercion and control of others.  Just read the whole thing and the self-examination part, too.  
Also, none of us who left the Annandale assembly think that place will keep going without itinerant ministry from So. Cal., or maybe Ottawa?  We were propped up out here for years by such visits.  Making dust, Phill now calls it.
And much rhetorical questioning went on last winter as well, "If George repented, would we have to forgive him and let him come to meetings?"  Also, only Geo. himself was bad to them.  Everything else 'assembly' was just great in their eyes.  The majority of them anyway.
Deliver us from evil.
Becky

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delila
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« Reply #40 on: March 02, 2004, 09:44:04 pm »

I know someone who is mentally ill.  I've known her all my life.  She's sick. She calls black white and the reverse.  In a discussion, she's been known to argue furiously and then switch sides (slealing her opponent's argument) and claiming it was her own to start with.  It is impossible to discuss with such people.  George is very much like this person I know.  Certifyable.  And he's trained, as others have pointed out, many henchmen to be just like him.  Given this is so, we are all idiots to try and reason with them.  They love the darkness.  They love the evil structure they seek to build.  They speak the same language and this language will enable them to build a great tower so high that they will not need God at all.  
I trust God will overthrow them.  Their purpose is most vile because they entrap the innocent and teach them to love the lies.  We must speak the truth we know, encourage others to speak their truth too, to dig down deep and fight the fear that protects their silence.  I am not afraid of George and all his henchmen: repeat 10 times and follow with the Lord's prayer.  I'm not kidding.  Yes, I am... but I'm not.  God brought Babel down.

drj
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delila
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« Reply #41 on: March 02, 2004, 10:02:47 pm »

The Wisers:

Oh, you were lucky enough to get itinerate ministry from Ottawa?  Wowzer.  I survived four years in that assembly and can attest to the fact that Nancy was handpicked by George to be Armand's wife because she would stand for George's interests in that place.  The assembly when downhill from there.  George is alive and well in that place, his carefully chossen vocabulary flowing it's 'wisdom' from their mouths.  Yes, the assembly is a machine, though so much of it currently renounces its leader.  Doesn't matter.  The source of evil that created it yet affects us all.  ...Deliver us from evil, for Thine is the kingdom, power and the glory, forever and ever, amen.
drj
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Joe Sperling
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« Reply #42 on: March 03, 2004, 01:40:07 am »

Hey Verne----

I know it's off the subject, but what are you doing
in Barcelona? Are you on vacation?

--Joe
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Uh Oh
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« Reply #43 on: March 03, 2004, 01:47:09 am »



.  He also named his son Timothy "Absalom," in reference to David's son who conspired with Ahithophel, David's chief counselor to usurp the throne.

Quote

This is actually a mistake...George renamed his son Flappy Abs - alom after Tim's body fat rose to over 56 percent.  

Seriously though - what on God's green earth is going on here!!!  Brent is correct - the only word that can describe these people is "addict"...

I never met this Lemkuhl (Thank God!!!) character but I can only imagine what hes like.  I just can't believe people who appeared to be at least halfway educated (ex. Mark Miller) would continue to carry on this circus act.

Why adults would subject themselves and their children to this utter nonsense in the first place is beyone me...Why they still subject themself to this after all thats been said and done makes me sick.  

If they are continuing to meet and recruit, I still contend the best way to intervene is to figure out where these yahoos are going "witnessing", and simply follow them around, interupt when they begin their spiel, and hand the people that they are "witnessing" to information from this website.  Harass, Harass, Harass!!!  
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Margaret
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« Reply #44 on: March 03, 2004, 02:03:07 am »

Before we get carried away again as we have in the past on this bb labeling certain leading brothers evil, please read the "evil" articles carefully.  The evil person Peck is describing is very consistent in those characteristics in all areas of his life.  

We probably know enough about GG to conclude that he is probably evil.  Certain leading brothers, on the other hand, have demonstrated some of these characteristics in their behavior as we see it in regard to assembly functioning.  This is evil behavior that has been learned from George.  But unless we know the person very well, we can't necessarily conclude that they are the through-and-through malignant narcissists Peck is describing.

We can, however, be alarmed that that they seem to be moving the wrong way on the continuum of good/evil, and this is a moment of choice.  We need to pray for those who have been paralyzed up to this point.
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