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Author Topic: IRAQ A GOOD IDEA?  (Read 69263 times)
Mark C.
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« Reply #195 on: January 20, 2008, 06:24:49 am »

Hi Doug,

  I don't understand what you're trying to say here.

                                               God Bless,  Mark C.
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doug
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« Reply #196 on: January 25, 2008, 01:11:41 am »



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo
« Last Edit: January 26, 2008, 01:56:22 am by doug » Logged
outdeep
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« Reply #197 on: January 25, 2008, 02:43:42 am »

If anyone can't open this from this email, then go directly to the
 youtube
site.  This is truly an amazing clip.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vuBo4E77ZXo
I received this e-mail earlier this week as well.  I'll preface my statement by saying "who am I to really know what is going on in the world and what is really happening?"  I'm willing to admit there is lots going on that I don't know about.

Having said that, here is my opinion:  This video has all the feel of a conspiracy theory film of which there are thousands.  It reminds me watching films in the 1970's predicting getting us to pack our bags for the 1980's rapture because of the European common market, Kissinger and the imbedded chips that were "just around the corner".

Couple of things that strike me as a bit dubious.  Folks in US have a government card as early as May 2008?  That's only five months away.  Better get busy. 

We're going to disolve the US and become one with Mexico and Canada and no one will protest?  OK, anything can happen in 20-50 years but now any time soon.

We can't get folks to wear show restraint or wear condoms to stop the HIV/Aids crisis and everyone is going to just line up and use a vchip because they say so?

If we learned anything from Michael Moore, you can prove anything with a video camera and an editing bay.

Ask me in five or ten years, but I'm not a believer yet.
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Oscar
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« Reply #198 on: January 25, 2008, 10:15:28 am »

Doug,

Around six months ago a gentleman in my adult fellowship at E Free Fullerton told me all about the "North American Union".  He told me that they were planning a super highway to connect Mexico with Canada, and that the US Constitution was going to be overthrown.  There was more, but that is what I remember.

I asked him that I had heard some talk of this on some Right Wing radio talk shows, and asked him if he had any verifiable information.  In other words, some facts that I could check in some way.  He said he had "proof" at home.

So, the next week he brought me a letter.  It was a fund raising letter from none other than Congressman Ron Paul, currently a candidate for President.  The letter was a typical political fund raising letter.  They all follow the same pattern.  First they try to scare your pants off by telling you that the evil environmentalists/corporations/Democrats/Republicans/Oil Companies/Socialists/Religious Right/Abortion Lobby/Gay Lobby/Gun Lobby, and on and on and on...are going to do something horrible to you, your family, America, or whatever.  Next comes the request for you to send money to fight this horrible evil.

The letter contained one, and one only, verifiable fact.  It said that a meeting had taken place a couple of years back between the three North American presidents.  They had signed an agreement to set up the "Ottowa Accord" (I think it was Ottowa anyway).

So, I googled it.  On the internet I found out that it really exists, and that the folks that volunteer to patrol the border, the Minute Men, had filed a Freedom of Information lawsuit to force public disclosure of its documents.  They had posted around 500 documents on their website.

Soooo, I went to their website, read the index, and then read a few documents.  They were about things like standardizing the customs forms and security procedures for imports and exports.  The purpose seemed to be to expedite trade.  So, I concluded it was a trade agreement, nothing more.  That doesn't worry me.  In the index I couldn't find any mention of a highway.

So, I suspect that this is just another conspiracy theory propagated by the right wing of the right wing here in the USA.  I rank it right alongside the ideas of the folks that keep lists of Black Helicopter sightings as signs of a UN invasion of  the United States.

The video brings up the Council on Foreign Relations.  That was a favorite bogeyman of the folks who were saying that president Jimmy Carter was head of the Illuminati, a council of 13 witches that ran the US.  I guess they gave up on hexing us into the One World Government and decided to sneak it in by deep conspiratorial conferences that are reported about on the evening news and in the papers.  When I searched for that accord I found in on several media websites like the New York Times.

Soooo...I'm not too worried about it just yet.

Tom Maddux
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Gu3st
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« Reply #199 on: January 27, 2008, 12:04:22 pm »

In the index I couldn't find any mention of a highway.

Oh, the new highway is real alright.

from http://www.dot.state.tx.us/news/001-2006.htm

That next generation of transportation infrastructure is the Trans-Texas Corridor (TTC), and, with a viable private-sector proposal under consideration to build TTC-35, TxDOT and NASCO will work together to ensure development of this larger trade corridor.

"NASCO shares our vision in realizing the importance of developing a new corridor to not only improve transportation and safety in Texas, but to further cement our trade bonds with Canada and Mexico," Williamson said.


If you can't trust the Texas Dept. of Transportation's website than who can you trust?

more info here: http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50803

Here's the plan from NASCO's website.




BTW, the New York Times is worth slightly less than toliet paper, same goes for TV news from the big three and CNN which, seeing that there is no actual paper involved, isn't worth even that. (Fox isn't that great either given that it's partly owned and influenced by a Saudi prince).
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Oscar
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« Reply #200 on: January 28, 2008, 10:45:07 am »

Gu3st,

I share your disdain for the ultra-left rag known as the New York Times.  My point, however, was that one can hardly point to a meeting and an international agreement reported in the public media as a deep dark conspiracy.  Conspiracies, by nature are secret.

Regarding the highway which is usually referred to on radio talk shows as the "NAFTA Highway", you have certainly produced some verifiable evidence of the plan.  Once again, however, something placed on the website of a state agency is certainly not a secret. 

It looks to me as if Texas wishes its Gulf ports to siphon off some of the business now dominated by Atlantic and Pacific coast ports.  Once again, I fail to see what the connection could be to a secret plot to merge the USA into a unified North American state.

Tom Maddux
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moonflower2
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« Reply #201 on: February 18, 2008, 03:54:09 am »

Hmm....
In a rather nasty way, I like these routes, as long as the cities are shown for reference only, and the train has no stop-overs as it heads north, unless of course the transport is legal.
Moonflower
« Last Edit: February 18, 2008, 04:06:37 am by moonflower » Logged
Oscar
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« Reply #202 on: February 21, 2008, 03:05:33 pm »

Folks,

Here is a quote from a skeptical philosopher, John Stewart Mill:

“War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things. The decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. The person who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing which is more important than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature and has no chance of being free unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself.”


Hmmmmm.

Tom Maddux
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Vandyyke
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« Reply #203 on: April 07, 2008, 04:05:23 am »

 Yes Tom! and guess what? These people have nothing for which they are willing to fight for! Meanwhile our U.S. dollars continue to disapear down a black whole, our U.S. servicemen continue to die? For what you claim is "A Good Idea"


http://www.michaelmoore.com/words/latestnews/index.php?id=11245

 You continue to proclaim "patriotism" What is patriotic about the Iraqi government?
« Last Edit: April 07, 2008, 04:09:10 am by Vandyyke » Logged
Vandyyke
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« Reply #204 on: April 25, 2008, 08:20:26 pm »

   


http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2008Apr23/0,4670,USIraqOil,00.html

    As you know the State of California is having a financial crisis, the schools are cutting back teachers, librarians, (We just lost ours) Our national economy sucks, unless you are invested in oil!


At the beginning of the war I believe it was Paul Bremmer who said the Iraqi oil revenues would pay for the reconstruction of Iraq. Well now they can! But I have a sick feeling inside we will never see this happen.
« Last Edit: April 25, 2008, 09:58:42 pm by Vandyyke » Logged
Vandyyke
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« Reply #205 on: May 01, 2008, 07:39:17 am »

http://my.earthlink.net/article/top?guid=20080430/4817eec0_3421_1334520080430-858074354
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Vandyyke
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« Reply #206 on: May 02, 2008, 08:26:50 pm »

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/bush-disapproval-rating-makes-history/20080501200009990002?icid=100214839x1201204562x1200044287
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outdeep
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« Reply #207 on: May 02, 2008, 10:34:31 pm »

History may prove that going into Iraq was not a good idea.  Nevertheless, blaming declaring war on Bush is a bit of a non-sequator that his opponents (those livid that Gore could not make the courts turn the election in his favor) are really stuck on.

The truth is, going into Iraq was supported by both parties based upon Intelligence that later proved either faulty or dated (if Saddam had WMDs, he apparently moved them).

I know this is a long-shot but if Joseph Lieberman were to be the running-mate of McCain, I would certainly vote for him.  Mr. Lieberman is one Democrat who didn't white-wash his vote and faced the consequences sticking with his convictions over simply mouthing the party's line.

By the way, here is a great piece on how true liberalism was overtaken by leftism in the 1960's.  Ironically, it used to be the liberal who fought against evil (Korea, Vietnam) and the conservatives who were isolationists until the disarray of the 1960's brought opportunity for the radical fringe of liberalism to take over.  The leftist redefinition of evil from standing against totalitarian governments to standing against those who exploit the ozone as well as the embracing of radical feminism, abortion without compromise and empowering homosexuality caused folks to find their home on the (albiet imperfect) conservative side of the fence.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/DennisPrager/2008/04/15/how_liberals_lost_a_liberal

Can Obama fix this divide through "change"?   Can McCain fix this by being a maverick in his own party?  I think that is the attraction as folks feels they can but I'm not so sure.
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Vandyyke
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« Reply #208 on: May 03, 2008, 05:29:10 am »

The truth is, going into Iraq was supported by both parties based upon Intelligence that later proved either faulty or dated (if Saddam had WMDs, he apparently moved them).


   Yes Dave I agree that both parties supported to invasion! Was it based on intelligence? 

  Which intelligence are you talking about? The yellow-cake BS that Joe Wilson debunked before the invasion or the "curve-ball testimony" that was debunked by German  operatives before the invasion? The truth is Mr. Stupid placed a bet on the fact that as long as the invasion was a success, people wouldn't care about the lack of WMD's. He could/did claim that regardless of WMD's we have brought "Democracy" to the mideast. The sick truth is that Dems went along for the ride because if Mr. Stupid's bet won then their careers were over. The lies wouldn't have mattered! (Do they matter now?) It wouldn't have mattered that innocent people, women and children were incinerated, it wouldn't have mattered that 4 thousand U.S. servicemen have died, it wouldn't have mattered that 30 thousand are permanently physically injured, not to mention the U.S. servicemen who have committed suicide, have been diagnosed as mentally ill etc... It wouldn't matter Dave because as long as our government could show a profit we won the bet! I continue to be amazed at the lack of consequence for Mr. Stupid and others for their lies! When will they be held accountable?  when?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curveball_(informant)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_C._Wilson

  Dave, what is it you find wrong with "feminism"?  Is it "equal pay for equal work"? Please tell me? If not what?

What do you mean by "empowering homosexuality"? If gays get married how will this threaten you?

"Abortion"? Does a girl who has been raped have the right to an abortion? 


Dave, I can understand why governments do what they do. I can understand the philosophy that "Might makes right"! But I don't understand where Christ comes in on this. Where do you find these teachings in the New Testament?

The ugly truth is, just like the Dems, Christians went along for the ride! They did this because they really aren't Christians! Not in accordance to the teachings of the New Testament! Just like the rest of america they really believe that "might makes right"! When will they read and believe the teachings of Christ?


 
« Last Edit: May 03, 2008, 05:57:16 am by Vandyyke » Logged
Vandyyke
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« Reply #209 on: May 03, 2008, 07:21:05 pm »


Can Obama fix this divide through "change"? 

    What divide?  Look at the number of dems voting in the primaries! It has been 2:1 to the Repubs!  This next election is a landslide!
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