AssemblyBoard
January 17, 2019, 12:35:22 pm *
The board has been closed to new content. It is available as a searchable archive only. This information will remain available indefinitely.

I can be reached at brian@tucker.name

For a repository of informational articles and current information on The Assembly, see http://www.geftakysassembly.com
 
   Home   Search  
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 15
  Print  
Author Topic: IRAQ A GOOD IDEA?  (Read 60782 times)
enchilada
Guest
« Reply #15 on: September 13, 2003, 01:08:12 am »

Marcia you may find it disgusting to know that the weapons of MD Saddam used against his own people were given to him by the U.S to fight Iran in 1980s
Americans should benefit from the rebuilding effort? Besides being mortal enemies what connection does Al Qaeda and Saddam Hussain have? I know George seems to think that somehow Saddam is responsible for the attacks on Sept 11 yet this has been proven false. Yes France and Germany oppossed the invasion as did the U.N. because the evidence of "Clear and Present Danger" just wasn't there.

I find it difficult to believe that the US would provide biological weapons to Iraq during the Iran/Iraq war.  Could you please indicate where you got that information?

It doesn't matter if there is a link between saddam and bin laden.  There were plenty of other bombers/mass murderers living in Iraq that were rounded up and hopefuly executed.  As a bonus, Saddam has been defeated, and the oil now belongs to us.  I'm sure Saddam was laughing his head off on 9/11/01, so this is just a little payback.  Also, next time you go fill your car with gas, be grateful that it doesn't have to come from the precious Alaskan wilderness.  If you ever go an an Alaskan cruise, you won't have to worry about a collision with an oil platform.  It's much better for us to deplete the mid-east oil reserves before we go after the oil in AK, oil from AK has more sulfur and more costly to refine.  Therefore, the invasion of Iraq was completely justified.
 
Regarding France and Germany, Iraq was their cash cow,  so the leaders of those two european countries have little credibility in their opinion on the invasion...too much conflict of interest.  






« Last Edit: September 19, 2003, 04:28:14 am by Dan Fredrickson » Logged
Oscar
Guest


Email
« Reply #16 on: September 18, 2003, 10:47:35 am »

Tom, if we are the product of evolution then many miracles are the result, (actually a miracle is a supernatural phenomenon in the evolutionary sence it would be natural to have a conscience) read Telliard Chardens book "The Divine Millue" one a moral conscience. Yes I have one! Yes I think about the children who were insinerated by our bombs!  I think about their families etc... I wonder at the rich and powerful people who controle our country?  Why did we invade/slaughter innocent people when we were not under attack?  Does it concern you that you helped pay for it?  Does it concern you that our media spends unreasonable amount of time, money , energy covering Bill and Monica and yet has very little account of Georges lies? Where is your conscience?  Are you happy to maintain your American lifestyle at the expence of others? WWJD?

Well Dave,

You finally replied.  Good.

You don't seem to realize that if our consciences are the result of evolution based on the random interaction of gasses, then whatever anyone thinks about anything has been produced by random chance.  So, your atoms interacted by chance and came up with, "Dubya is evil".  

If someone else came up with "Dubya is wonderful" on the basis of random chance, why is your result better than his?

I doesn't work Dave, no rule giver, no rules.

Thomas Maddux
Logged
David Mauldin
Guest
« Reply #17 on: September 19, 2003, 06:32:16 am »

Again Tom you restate that since I believe in the possibility of evolution that no moral standards can be applied. Look at it this way!  Life is all around us that is a fact! Scientific!  The miracle of it is just as amazing as moral truth!  Yet can we apply science to your or my reasoning? It is not that easy therefore in the spirit of Thomas Jefferson we must examine and reexamine!  We must wrestle with and try our best to come to the best conclusions we can.  Is the Bible adequate for this?  The Bible gives laws that applied for a certain group of people at a certain time.  It gives ideals for us to strive towards but the truth is we must face reality every moment of our lives. We must ask question and ask them again. Tom if life were as easy as many want to believe then we would all live together and our leaders would decide our lives for .....
« Last Edit: September 19, 2003, 06:34:03 am by David Mauldin » Logged
Oscar
Guest


Email
« Reply #18 on: September 19, 2003, 08:52:52 am »

Again Tom you restate that since I believe in the possibility of evolution that no moral standards can be applied. Look at it this way!  Life is all around us that is a fact! Scientific!  The miracle of it is just as amazing as moral truth!  Yet can we apply science to your or my reasoning? It is not that easy therefore in the spirit of Thomas Jefferson we must examine and reexamine!  We must wrestle with and try our best to come to the best conclusions we can.  Is the Bible adequate for this?  The Bible gives laws that applied for a certain group of people at a certain time.  It gives ideals for us to strive towards but the truth is we must face reality every moment of our lives. We must ask question and ask them again. Tom if life were as easy as many want to believe then we would all live together and our leaders would decide our lives for .....

1. Dave, you speak much of Thomas Jefferson.  Yet you don't seem to understand what He actually thought.  Remember this?

"When in the couirse of human events, it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands that connected them with another, and to assume among the powers of the earth the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them..."

"...We hold these truths to be self- evident, that all men are CREATED equal, and are endowed by their CREATOR with certain unalienable rights, among which are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness."

So there it is Dave,  Jefferson, a Deist, believed in a Creator God who had infused in His creation with "the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God".  That, Dave, is a far cry from someone who just keeps trying out whatever ideas that come up the road, as long as the liberal elitists approve of them.

If you want to follow Jefferson, you need to find out what those laws are and obey them.

2. Tielhard D'Chardin was sort of a panthiest, who, by the way, is one of the suspects in the Piltdown man hoax.  He believed in a sort of directed cosmic evolution. (all the while collecting his paycheck from the RC Church.  Now there's integrity for you!)
  Now, Dave, how can you follow the ideas of a Deist, who belived that God created nature, AND a pantheist who believed nature was God???

This sort of thing is why I said you seem to be liberated from logic.

3. I never said that no moral standards can be applied.  What I did say was that if there is no lawgiver then the only source of moral standards is ourselves.  So, why are your moral standards better than anyone else's.  (I know the answer Dave, the "Liberal" elitists are the only ones who understand the true, the good, and the beautiful, and you are trying to join the club)  

You never seem to try to answer the question, "why is A better than B".  

4. You say, "we must examine and re-examine, we must wrestle with and try our best to come to the best conclusions we can."

Says who???  Seems to me that if we get to make up the rules, and a whole lot of people choose to believe that the great truths of the universe are found on the back of a Budweiser Beer can, there would be no basis to say they are wrong.

5. The fact that "life is all around us" proves one thing.  Life is all around us.  That doesn't tell us anything about what to do with it.

You cannot derive an "ought" from an "is".


6.  You say, "...can we apply science to your or my reasoning?"

What we can apply to reasoning is Logic, which is defined as the art of clear thinking.  Its principles are cross cultural and cross generational.

7.  As to the idea that values are in us as through evolution...since all life forms are competing for resources, according to Darwinist theory, genocide makes perfect sense.  If we kill other people, they can't compete with us, so we and our offspring survive.  Too bad for them, but that is the lot of the weak.  Nature, red in tooth and claw.

Do you really believe this Dave?

I suggest that you stop telling everyone else that they need to think and start doing it yourself.  

Thomas Maddux
« Last Edit: September 19, 2003, 08:54:12 pm by Tom Maddux » Logged
David Mauldin
Guest
« Reply #19 on: September 20, 2003, 12:35:35 am »

O.K. Tom here we go again.   Jefferson believed in freedom of speech in order that people would not become the victims of "Those who know best"   Jefferson would allow for the examination of Evolution and wouldn't label an evolutionist as amoral.  Yes Jefferson like Washington and many founders of our country ... was a Deist.  So?  Hey Tom Did I tell you that yes the existance of God is a possibility?  The real reason I started this thread is because of the obvious blunder of the present administration and the lack of voice from Christians who should know better. Again Billions being spent Thousands dead, wounded Why? 6 months agao many on this board had a tremndous zeal to support the President  now it seems they have disappeard
Logged
Joe Sperling
Guest


Email
« Reply #20 on: September 20, 2003, 12:46:48 am »

President Bush was asleep in the White House and awoke to see an apparition of George Washington. He immediately asked: "Mr. Washington, at this time in my presidency what is the best thing I can do to help the American People?"
Washington answered "I cannot tell a lie, be truthful to the American People", and with that he disappeared.

The next night he was awakened by Thomas Jefferson and
asked him the same questiion. "As I was known to do, uphold the Constitution without wavering" he said, and with that he disappeared.

The following night he was awakened and saw an apparition of Abraham Lincoln. "Oh dear sir", asked Bush, "what thing can I do to truly help the American people at this time in history?"

"Go see a play" said Lincoln.
















« Last Edit: September 20, 2003, 12:47:19 am by Joe Sperling » Logged
David Mauldin
Guest
« Reply #21 on: September 20, 2003, 01:21:02 am »

You just uninterpreted me.
Logged
David Mauldin
Guest
« Reply #22 on: September 20, 2003, 02:47:14 am »

I love my country.  I think it may be the best country in the world,  when I was 5 years old I believed anything my country did must be the right thing but when I got older I learned that this was not always the case.  Therefore I question the current choices of this administration.  I worry that we are headed towards economic ruin or even worse more invasions and wars.  But funny I a person who questions if there is a personal God seems more concerned than those who do?  
« Last Edit: September 20, 2003, 03:05:45 am by David Mauldin » Logged
M2
Guest
« Reply #23 on: September 20, 2003, 04:30:46 am »

David,

As a believer, I am concerned about the decisions the Canadian government is making. They recently legalized same-sex marriages. The American authorities refused entry into the States of a 'gay' couple - good for them(the Americans). The Canadian administration was too concerned with 'gay' rights to free themselves to ally themselves the US for the recent war in Iraq. So, yes, as a believer I am concerned with the choices of the present Administration.

Lord bless,
Marcia
Logged
Oscar
Guest


Email
« Reply #24 on: September 21, 2003, 04:12:56 am »

 Reverend Dave,

You said,

" The Bible gives laws that applied for a certain group of people at a certain time."

OK, let's say you are right.  The Bible merely records the religious tales of a bunch of nomadic shepherds who murdered some other folks and occupied their lands and towns, and then justified it by saying their God told them to do it.

Now, that means that their religious rules are merely a projection of their own culture, which is gone.

So, now you have preached mightily against the evil G. W. Bush Jr.  You say he involved his country in a war by lies, murdered thousands of innocent people, and is now an evil oppressor who is dragging his country into a Viet Nam like quagmire.

So Reverend Dave, I would be most interested to know just where you got the rules you are judging the evil Bush FROM?Huh    Come on Dave, don't dodge the bullet....tell us.

Certainly they cannot come from an old dusty book written by a bunch of pixilated prophets in ancient dirt floor villiages!

So, what's the answer?

Thomas Maddux
Logged
David Mauldin
Guest
« Reply #25 on: September 23, 2003, 12:14:55 am »

Tom I don't appreciate your sarcasm "Reverend" Just to let you know other people whom I disagree with but  respect have appologized to me for your behavior.  Tom last friday I found out that  a student of mine just lost her father in Bahgdad.  He was hit by a military vehicle. This news has brought me to tears.  Could you come and explain to her why it was neccessary for her dad to die?  Where does the great pain and injustice I feel come from? It is in the fact that I am human.  That all of humanity is part of my family?  Who or what put this awarness inside of me?  I don't know! But the fact that it is there is enough to uphold what I believe to be right.  I find that the Bible says many many different things that can be used to justify our governments actions or condem it. The Bible therefore becomes a matter of debate.  But let me ask you "Who would Jesus kill?"
« Last Edit: September 23, 2003, 12:25:43 am by David Mauldin » Logged
David Mauldin
Guest
« Reply #26 on: September 23, 2003, 01:37:25 am »

In reseponse to the Mariners,  I use to think the same way you do about Gays until I realized that a freind of mine was gay.  He is the most decent percent I have ever met.  He was raised in a healthy Christian home and has two very loving Christian parents both of whom have accepted him.  How do you treat gay people?  Is it on the basis of what you have heard or seen in the media? Do you know any gay people? Chances are you know a lot more than you think.  Many gay people are secret about it because they will be rejected.  
« Last Edit: September 23, 2003, 01:41:05 am by David Mauldin » Logged
editor
Guest
« Reply #27 on: September 23, 2003, 01:49:34 am »

The Bible therefore becomes a matter of debate.  But let me ask you "Who would Jesus kill?"

Let's answer this by looking at the people He killed in the Old Testament.  Then, let's ask the question, "Who WILL Jesus kill?"

He is a mighty warrior, and a God of wrath, among His other attributes.  The bloodiest day of human history will be the day He returns to this earth, wearing a robe dipped in blood, riding a white horse.

Do I really believe this?  Yep.  Jesus "would" kill Iraqi's.  He would also kill Englishman, Americans and those who inhabit Pitcairn Island.  The real wonder is that He saves any of us, seeing what lost sinners we are.

As to the story about your students father, it is sad, and I understand your grief.  One of my very first patients has a daughter that is 18.  She will be dead before this time next year, due to a rare form of cancer.  Whose senseless policy can I blame for this?  Perhaps is we didn't spend the money on the war in Iraq, but put it towards Epithelial Sarcoma research, she would not have had to die.

One of my dear friends died in a car accident a few years back.  She was hit by a truck driver.  If Americans weren't so consumer oriented,  this truck would not have been on the road, and she would still be alive.   I think I am going to blame someone for this senseless death, I just need to figure out who to blame....

Brent
Logged
M2
Guest
« Reply #28 on: September 23, 2003, 02:40:18 am »

In reseponse to the Mariners,  I use to think the same way you do about Gays until I realized that a freind of mine was gay.  He is the most decent percent I have ever met.  He was raised in a healthy Christian home and has two very loving Christian parents both of whom have accepted him.  How do you treat gay people?  Is it on the basis of what you have heard or seen in the media? Do you know any gay people? Chances are you know a lot more than you think.  Many gay people are secret about it because they will be rejected.  
David,

I assume that when you say, "I used to think the same way you do about Gays" that you mean that you used to think that homosexuality is sin. Because that is the only way I am thinking about gays. I did not imply that I would reject one on the basis of his sin, because then I would have to reject all sinners (myself included). I agree that there are many 'nice' sinners around, but unfortunately some of those 'nice' sinners think that they are OK and do not need to change their lifestyles.

Marcia Marinier
Logged
jm
Guest


Email
« Reply #29 on: September 23, 2003, 05:52:27 am »

Dave,  I'm sorry to hear about your student who lost her father.  She's in my thoughts and prayers.
Logged
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 ... 15
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!