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Author Topic: Escapees... Survivors... Overcomers  (Read 21194 times)
vernecarty
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« Reply #15 on: August 10, 2003, 05:23:08 pm »

Greetings Amy:
 Most maybe, but not everyone  Smiley....

Uh Oh...! do it detect faint stirrings of potentially lively debate on the merits of Roman Catholicism? Why Sebastian, I never would have guessed!  Smiley
Verne
« Last Edit: August 10, 2003, 05:23:42 pm by vernecarty » Logged
amycahill
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« Reply #16 on: August 11, 2003, 06:09:28 pm »

Hi Amy:
Thanks for sharing your story. I trust you will continue to allow God to reveal His truth to you thorugh His Word in the Holy Scriptures. Most poople posting on this BB wil not agree with you that Roman Catholicism teaches the truth...
Verne

Thanks.  I researched some pages for Mithrandir to post his warnings on and was pleased to see that several listed Roman Catholicism as a cult.  Kiss
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Sebastian Andrew
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« Reply #17 on: September 13, 2003, 04:21:16 pm »


Hi Amy:
Thanks for sharing your story. I trust you will continue to allow God to reveal His truth to you thorugh His Word in the Holy Scriptures. Most poople posting on this BB wil not agree with you that Roman Catholicism teaches the truth...
Verne
A greater than Santayana had a few things to say about specks and logs, too. Eh emcee?  Kiss
« Last Edit: September 13, 2003, 04:30:40 pm by Sebastian Andrew » Logged
vernecarty
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« Reply #18 on: September 13, 2003, 05:48:50 pm »


Hi Amy:
Thanks for sharing your story. I trust you will continue to allow God to reveal His truth to you thorugh His Word in the Holy Scriptures. Most poople posting on this BB wil not agree with you that Roman Catholicism teaches the truth...
Verne
A greater than Santayana had a few things to say about specks and logs, too. Eh emcee?  Kiss

Greetings Amy:
 Most maybe, but not everyone  Smiley....


Sebastian obviously has a problem. I do remember his rather suggestive but undeveloped response to that post. Would Sebastian please speak up instead of making veiled references? This is a forum for meaningful and spirited exchange!
Would you like to launch into a defence of Roman Catholicism my friend? The floor is yours... Smiley
Verne
p.s.
Unlike your own expressed displeasure, I have agreed with and enjoyed reading most of what you have posted... Smiley
« Last Edit: September 13, 2003, 05:54:03 pm by vernecarty » Logged
amycahill
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« Reply #19 on: September 13, 2003, 08:09:50 pm »

Would you like to launch into a defence of Roman Catholicism my friend? The floor is yours... Smiley
Verne
p.s.
Unlike your own expressed displeasure, I have agreed with and enjoyed reading most of what you have posted... Smiley

Hey thanks, Verne.  I appreciate the offer! Smiley

However, I'm not here to debate the merits of Roman Catholicism.  It's not that I can't.  I actually know enough about it to explain to someone why I believe the way I do.  It's that I'm here to help myself, not debate anything with anyone.  (Also, some of the things about Catholicism require lengthy explanations! Grin)

So, 'nuff said.  

Thanks for asking!
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vernecarty
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« Reply #20 on: September 14, 2003, 06:55:10 am »

Would you like to launch into a defence of Roman Catholicism my friend? The floor is yours... Smiley
Verne
p.s.
Unlike your own expressed displeasure, I have agreed with and enjoyed reading most of what you have posted... Smiley

Hey thanks, Verne.  I appreciate the offer! Smiley

However, I'm not here to debate the merits of Roman Catholicism.  It's not that I can't.  I actually know enough about it to explain to someone why I believe the way I do.  It's that I'm here to help myself, not debate anything with anyone.  (Also, some of the things about Catholicism require lengthy explanations! Grin)

So, 'nuff said.  

Thanks for asking!
Hi Amy!
That post was meant for Sebastain but since you received it so graciously, I acccept your offer to talk about other things... Wink
Verne
« Last Edit: September 14, 2003, 06:56:00 am by vernecarty » Logged
amycahill
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« Reply #21 on: September 14, 2003, 02:50:08 pm »

Hi Amy!
That post was meant for Sebastain but since you received it so graciously, I acccept your offer to talk about other things... Wink
Verne

Thanks!  I really appreciate you saying that!  So, anybody up for talking about Tiger Woods?  Smiley Smiley Smiley
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BeckyW
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« Reply #22 on: September 14, 2003, 10:49:07 pm »

Tiger Woods is a fantastic golfer,
But I'm posting because I just read Nancy Newswander's term paper on The Jesus Movement under 'What's new' on the assembly reflections web site.
It is excellent, must reading.  We who have escaped need to know our history in order to avoid repeating it.
Good job, Nancy.

Becky
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Recovering Saint
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« Reply #23 on: November 27, 2003, 08:30:51 pm »

The New Living Translation

1 Corinthians 1: 1 - 31
1  ..chosen by the will of God…
2  …called by God. He made you holy by means of Christ Jesus,
4  …belong to Christ Jesus.
5 He has enriched your church …about Christ …
8 He will keep you strong …
9 God will surely do this for you, …
12 … "I am a follower of Paul." Others are saying, "I follow Apollos," or "I follow Peter," or "I follow only Christ."
18 … power of God.
20 …God has made them all look ….
21 .. God in his wisdom …
24 … called by God …power of God … wisdom of God.
25 … plan of God ….
26 … God called you.
27 …God deliberately chose things the world considers foolish ….
28 God chose things despised by the world, …
29 so that no one can ever boast in the presence of God.
30 God alone made it possible for you to be in Christ Jesus. … God made Christ to be wisdom itself. He is the one who made us acceptable to God. He made us pure and holy, and he gave himself to purchase our freedom.
31 As the Scriptures say, should boast only of what the Lord has done.

Read this passage from 1 Corinthians 1 and see how many references to God did this and how our focus is the Lord. It ends by saying we can only boast in the Lord. The problems of disunity were caused by people following their earthly leaders instead of Christ. Again this passage is lifted out of context to support the view that these are people complaining about the system. There they go again grumbling in their tents just like Miriam in Moses’ day. It is amazing how often the leaders would misuse scripture to support their own agenda. But read on because every member is responsible to the extent that they complied with the system and perpetrated it by not investigating the scriptures for themselves.

In the assembly we boasted in (past tense):
1.   our vision,
2.   our devotion to prayer
3.   our reading the Word of God
4.   following the latest whim from Fullerton
(but has this been replaced by our allegiance to our local leaders?)

We used to demonstrate that I am of George when we said “Well this is what George or Betty said.

We now demonstrate that I am of the leading brothers (when we never question anything the leaders say when our conscience says it is wrong).

There are those who claim that things are different now. So I challenge any who have not left the Assembly because they believe this to be true to consider doing the following to be sure. Examine yourself before the Lord in these areas.

1.   Is there any hint of spiritual pride (we do it better or know more than other Christians);
2.   Do I have a desire to lord it over others and boss them around (Do I like to head up the outreaches, fellowships etc. and assign things to people and get upset when I am not asked to have this role).
3.   Do I teach others with stewardships that equip them for service as God sees fit? (Do I see their work as a means to better my lot by having them there only to fix and clean my home and pay down my mortgage faster? Are the stewardships demeaning and do I seek only to find fault in the way they are either carried out or accomplished);
4.   Do I understand what is a reasonable consequence for inappropriate behavior and do I practice the same behavior myself and not see it as a problem for me to do? (If you are mean and petty in giving consequences you are treating people like children. It is especially demeaning if the people you are assigning them are already adults). Consider what Jesus would say “Do unto others as you would have them do unto you".
5.   Do you avoid non-compliant members without first hearing their side of the story?
6.   Do you focus on performance in preaching, praying or outreach? (You can tell this one if you are always keeping stats on time number of points they gave and only focusing on the statistics of brothers preaching, recording how many times someone prayed and listing how many times people went on outreach and how many they are discipling).
7.   Am I truly humble? (the way we tell this one is our attitude of how we think we are doing and how others measure up to us. It may be seen in this prayer. I thank God I am not like all those other Christians in other churches I pray twice or more a day I read the Word twice or more a day, I go to weekly prayer meetings, I go to bible study, I disciple many people, I invite people over.
8.   Do I take pride in exhorting others for every little thing and would I respond to them the way I expect them to respond to me if the tables were turned?

If you try to fool yourself or others you may succeed for a while but remember that the LORD is never fooled and He is the judge of all unrighteousness.

Let me end by saying that I believe there may be some who really do think that things have changed. I don’t think so because the people are still saying the same old things I learned from the GG teachings and they will not seek independent outside help from a respected mature christian. Can things change? I hope so but you know only the Lord knows for sure.

Lord bless you all.

Still serving Him after all those years. Grin
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H
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« Reply #24 on: December 11, 2003, 04:42:04 pm »

Thanks for posting those extracts from I Corinthians 1 in The New Living Translation, Recovering Saint! I especially like this part:

27 …God deliberately chose things the world considers foolish ….
28 God chose things despised by the world, …
29 so that no one can ever boast in the presence of God.
30 God alone made it possible for you to be in Christ Jesus. … God made Christ to be wisdom itself. He is the one who made us acceptable to God. He made us pure and holy, and he gave himself to purchase our freedom.

Is this translation (The New Living Translation) available on the Internet, or did you copy that from a printed Bible?

Lord bless!
H
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Recovering Saint
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« Reply #25 on: December 11, 2003, 06:22:52 pm »

This is one of many translations online. I really like it. Most of my time in the Assembly we used the NASB but I have been trying out new translations to see how they put it.

http://bible.crosswalk.com/OnlineStudyBible/bible.cgi?word=John+1&section=0&version=nlt&new=1&oq=&NavBook=1co&NavGoto=Go+To%3A&NavGo=1&NavCurrentChapter=1

This is the link for 1 Cor 1 in the New Living translation. BTW it is friendly for blind people with a sound byte link beside the title.

Lord bless you all
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Recovering Saint
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« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2004, 09:58:27 pm »

Today is my 6 month anniversary of leaving the Assembly. Whooooooooooooo Hoooooo!
Jumps up and down with heels clicking.

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

And the heavenly angels said Praise the Lord for His mercy is everlasting.
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al Hartman
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« Reply #27 on: January 15, 2004, 01:11:21 am »



Today is my 6 month anniversary of leaving the Assembly. Whooooooooooooo Hoooooo!
Jumps up and down with heels clicking.

 Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin Grin

And the heavenly angels said Praise the Lord for His mercy is everlasting.


     Technically, Hugh, anniversary means yearly (annual), but this occasion is SO worth celebrating, we'll overlook that:  So, Woooooooooooooo Hoooooooooooooooo back atcha!
     Congratulations, Brother, and many happy returns until our Lord's return!

al

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Recovering Saint
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« Reply #28 on: January 15, 2004, 02:30:08 am »


     Technically, Hugh, anniversary means yearly (annual), but this occasion is SO worth celebrating, we'll overlook that:  So, Woooooooooooooo Hoooooooooooooooo back atcha!
     Congratulations, Brother, and many happy returns until our Lord's return!

al

Thanks Al I just couldn't wait for one year to celebrate. I've been through the system in a Church with no name it feels good to be out of that pain.
« Last Edit: January 15, 2004, 02:33:42 am by Hugh » Logged
lenore
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« Reply #29 on: July 24, 2004, 08:17:41 pm »


     Hello...  My name is al Hartman, and i'm a recovering Geftakysite.  i was in fellowship with George and Betty Geftakys from 1969 until 1980.  During most of that time i served among the workers and the leading brothers of the Fullerton assembly.

     Presently, i live in a suburb of Columbus, Ohio.  i have a wife, four children, four grandchildren, two dogs, a house, two cars, and no concubines.

    In 1980, i left the assembly because i was no longer able to maintain the pace required of a leader, and was so ashamed, and certain that i had failed the Lord, that i didn't want to be among the saints, to be reminded of my shortcomings.  Only recently did i find out that if i hadn't left when i did, i would have shortly been asked to leave.

     After leaving the assembly, i returned to my native Ohio with my wife Cathy, and our children, Hannah, Joshua, Esther and Phoebe.  We have had over 20 years to examine and overcome our assembly experiences.  We are still engaged in that process.  It took several years for me to realize that i had not just left the assembly, i had ESCAPED it.  Some years after that, i understood that i had SURVIVED my bondage, and finally i have come to see that
every day i stand before God and walk with him, i am OVERCOMING my past.

     i had wanted with all my heart to serve the Lord, and had thought that i was doing so.  i believe we all thought we were doing his will.  The assembly was not at that time what it became in later years, but the seeds were sown and the garden tended during the years of my tenure, and i ask your forgiveness for what part i had in the establishing of that darkness.

     How grateful i am that, while man looks at the outward appearance, God sees what is in ours hearts; how grateful for the forgiveness of sins, for our Advocate with the Father, for the Spirit of Truth to lead us into all Truth, that we may walk in the Light and have fellowship with one another.


     It has taken distance and time for me to realize that my time in the assembly was not lost.  (It seemed like a loss when i left, but i now regard it as an investment.  It has even gathered interest.)  Now i am convinced that God leads us down whatever paths we must travel to get us to the place he wants us to be.  Something about each one of us must have needed the assembly experience, else why would he have allowed us to travel that road when we sought to follow him?  There may have been something we could only learn the hard way?  i don't pretend to understand his reasons, but i know whom i have believed, and am persuaded that he is able to keep that which i have committed unto him against that day.

     i came away from the assembly with much good:  
i learned how to study the bible there, and the lesson has served me in every aspect of my life.  In every situation that requires conscious thought, i ask myself and God, (1.) What is happening here?  (2.) What does it mean to me, in a practical way?  (3.) What would You have me [What am i going to] do about it?
     i also learned how to really listen effectively to ministry, and i learned how to preach and to teach.  And i learned self discipline.  Much i learned was in spite of, rather than because of, the assembly.  Nonetheless, that is where i was when i learned it, or when the seeds were planted that would bear fruit later on.
     It took time after i had left for me to "learn" what i had learned-- to winnow out the good grain from the chaff.

     By the way, i don't despise George or Betty.  Rather, i weep for them.  They were born into this world the same way as you and i.  At some point, they set out to follow Jesus and serve God.  Somehow they were deceived, then blinded, and are perhaps now even mad.  But my pain is abating and my anger has cooled, and i cannot hate them.  
i pray God will humble them, and that they will humble themselves before him, and repent and find his forgiveness, and ask for yours.   But for the grace of God, what became of them could have happened to any of us.  Their salvation, as ours, is only in seeking, finding and clinging to the living God, and leaving the past behind us and the settling of accounts to him.    

     Any "old-timers" out there who remember us, we'd love to hear from you:    OHio al Hartman@aol.com    ("Newbies" are welcome too!)

     Greater is he that is in you than he that is in the world... Be of good cheer, for he has overcome the world.

In his love,
brother al



JULY 23RD AT 11:25TH:

I JUST NOW FOUND YOUR STORY. I am glad I took the time to browse through the posts.  
It was touching , encouraging, and worth repeating, and resurrecting for others to see.

Proverbs 22:4 (TLB)
 True humility and respect for the Lord lead a man to riches, honour and long life.

Job 22:28(RSV)
You will decide on a matter,, and it will be established for you, and light will shine on you ways.

Dear Brother, I just want to say thank you.

Lenore
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