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Author Topic: Psychology: Viewed by an Ex. A.K.  (Read 18255 times)
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« on: January 27, 2003, 08:26:09 am »

Assembly on Psychology

The assembly looks down on psychology. I've never really understood why. But over teen team, GG consistantly brought up the subject. His argument was this (and I quote from my summer school notes):

"Psychology has failed."

GG repeated this constantly throughout summer school. My question is this: where in the scriptures is this taught? And furthermore... what replaces psychology? Psychology is used to understand a person's problem in order to help them. So if psychology is the wrong approach to an emotional, physical, mental and even spiritual problem, what are we supposed to do? How do we help schitzophreniacs, the emotionally damaged, or even people with physical disabilities? What about people with chronic depression? If you consult a christian about an issue in your walk with the Lord, isn't that considered therapy? www.dictionary.com defines therapy as so:


ther·a·py   n.
1. Treatment of illness or disability.
2. Psychotherapy.
3. Healing power or quality

therapy

n : (medicine) the act of caring for someone (as by medication or remedial training etc.);
[/i]


I was not in GG and BG's shoes in regards to David. Did they ever think about hiring a therapist? Why do people believe this is so wrong? Is it equally wrong if the therapist is a Christian? There was a point in time when I was EXTREMELY depressed. I thought about asking my parents for therapy... but I didn't. It wasn't that I thought my parents wouldn't allow it... it was more of that I didn't want people coming up to me in the assembly, exhorting me for it. I was half afraid of the leading bretheran at that point in time.

In the long run, I think I'd have been better off with one. As I said, I never asked my parents about it, because I knew the assembly outlook on the issue. Growing up in the assembly, we all know the rules and regulations... it's like breathing, we don't even need to think about it. For example, sisters wear skirts on sundays, and if they're baptised, they wear head coverings. (I could sidetrack a bit and give some examples of when there have been exceptions, but I don't want to stray too far off the subject.)

In the end, a good friend, who wasn't in the assembly or even christian at the time, helped me "overcome" so to speak. She showed me how to manage and get over it. She was like a therapist, and if not for her, I might not even be sitting on my bed typing this right now. I see that God used her in my life. Well, now she IS a Christian. She got saved over the summer, after conversation after conversation about Christ with myself, and other Christians around her. So my question is this: why is getting help (therapy) wrong?

Theories (NOT NECESSARILY FACTUAL)

A theory of mine (and I don't have any evidence behind this so don't take it as more then a theory) is that GG and BG are trying to convince themselves that therapy is wrong. Perhaps because they don't want to admit they were wrong, and feel that if they can get other people to believe it, they will as well. Perhaps because they want to take random stands against certain topics, and psychology just happens to be one of them. I don't know why, there are infinately many possibilities as to WHY they believe psychology is wrong. Does anyone else have any thoughts regarding the subject?
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Oscar
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« Reply #1 on: January 27, 2003, 08:57:52 am »

Emily,

The assembly take on psychology seems to follow the ideas of extreme fundamentalists.  The idea is that all problems are caused by sin.  If you were trusting God you would be rejoicing and victorious.

There also seems to be quite a bit of fear involved.  One very popular book among these folks, written by an ex-Plymouth Brother named Dave Hunt, attacks Freudianism.  He seems to feel that all Psychological theories are Freudian.

When GG said, "psychology has failed", the issue is failed to what?  Cure all man's ills?  Seems to me the gospel hasn't accomplished that goal yet.
It is just another example of GG pompousity.

God bless,
Tom M.
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jesusfreak
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« Reply #2 on: January 27, 2003, 09:27:32 am »

The assembly looks down on psychology. I've never really understood why. But over teen team, GG consistantly brought up the subject. His argument was this (and I quote from my summer school notes):

"Psychology has failed."

I must admit, this has been one of those "georgism's" that i have personally questioned.  After giving him the benifit of the doubt, and looking at the general context in which he was speaking when he made this point each time, it was on the fallicies of Man.  I decided to assume he was making a general reference to Man trying to phase out the need of God in their lives for Peace and Security by using knowledge and science to explain everything away  (using psychology as a figurehead).  


Quote
I was not in GG and BG's shoes in regards to David. Did they ever think about hiring a therapist? W

Just wondering, do you mean George G and Bro G?  ie, typo for same person? I am confused as to who are you refering too if these are 2 seperate ppl.
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Rudy
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« Reply #3 on: January 27, 2003, 09:37:34 am »

Brother George and George Geftakys refer to the same man.
In the assembly i'm sure he's still refered to as brother george
exclusively. I've been out for 13+ years.
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Aslan213
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« Reply #4 on: January 27, 2003, 10:08:06 am »

Hi!

GG- is George Geftakys

BG - is Betty Geftakys

Lorretta
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brian
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« Reply #5 on: January 28, 2003, 02:22:25 am »

george's take on psychology is just another example of pompous ignorance. he would frequently use examples such as the marriage counselor who was divorced, etc. to offhandedly dismiss the entire field of psychology with such a shallow, flippant example is ignorance and pride in all their glory, and typical of george's take on anything that does not make him look good. ironically, psychological study has mapped out the patterns of abuse and control in dysfunctional homes and george's family is a textbook case scenerio. the cruel way george treated david when he was growing up produced the horrid situations we have now been made aware of.

'psychology has failed!' ha! why stop there? government has failed! science has failed! religion has failed! everything has failed except for george and his 'heavenly vision'. this is a classic narcissistic personality disorder at work. don't be fooled by it.
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Rudy
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« Reply #6 on: January 28, 2003, 03:17:26 am »

Brian,

Narcissistic Personality Disorder - on the head. Can't show them that
they're wrong. Try to , they tear you a new one.
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« Reply #7 on: January 28, 2003, 09:31:12 am »

Brian,
thanks for your input :). I like that expression (narcissistic personality disorder)! I must say, I agree with every word, and you put it very neatly.



Tom,
When you say fear, what do you mean? I don't understand. But it's interesting to note Dave Hunt's book. I think I've run across it before somewhere, as it sounds familiar.




something i would like to add:

I've been thinking about taking psychology next year in school. and that's why I wanted other's ideas on the topic in general. I'd still love to hear other responses. if you dont feel comforable posting, you can email me or IM me here if you'd prefer. I just want opinions and thoughts about it.
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Rudy
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« Reply #8 on: January 29, 2003, 12:48:56 am »

Emily,

You could be the next Rick Ross. The assy was
specifically pointed out in "Churches that Abuse".
That's major insight and experience material.

Interesting line of interest - psychology ; esp
re all of the posts on this site.

R
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Eden Garisek
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« Reply #9 on: January 29, 2003, 12:53:14 am »

I think there's another aspect to it as well... There seems to have been a general distaste for the intellectual life in general and academics in particular.  Notice no one in the leadership was encouraged to go to seminary (though GG had gone).  

I heard him speak several times on an experience when God "told him" to put away his study of philosophy.  

Though so much outreach was conducted on college campuses, I often saw students compromise their studies to focus on the "campus work" - they were encouraged to do so.  I was a high-achieving student in high school, and did well on the SAT.  Tim Geftakys told me that it likely was not God's will that I go away to school.  He made vague claims that the East Coast was "dark" and that likely God wanted me on a local campus if any.  He suggested that instead of college, maybe God wanted me to get married and have babies!  

A Presbyterian pastor reminded me when I was 19 that the Bible says not just to love God with the heart, but with the MIND.  It was a great relief to me at the time to remember that if God created us, he created us to be curious, investigative, analytical and logical.  Back to psychology - it is not surprising to me that GG rejected it along with other rational or scientific explanations of our world and our behavior.  
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Rudy
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« Reply #10 on: January 29, 2003, 01:26:33 am »

Regarding your documented intelligence - they of course
would supress that. Get married and have kids - that's great,
but i don't see that as the motive for the counsel you were given.
The motive - supression of critical thinking and thinkers, etc.

As far as the east coast being dark - Puhleeese.The west coast
has a long history of sprouting cults. Heavens Gate for example.
Out in this area there are the types that would tell saints on
outreach to "take a hike" if not worse.  Wink
« Last Edit: February 01, 2003, 07:37:50 am by Rudy » Logged
TGarisek
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« Reply #11 on: January 29, 2003, 01:29:05 am »

Another couple of points:

I've seen both GG and BG reading and discussing Jung "recreationally". You don't read Jung like that unless you have some kind of fascination. It's just another typical case of the "I can but you can't because you can't possibly understand it" pomposity !

The other point illustrates the distortion to which we were frequently subjected. Christianity at large doesn't hold the same view GG repeated so often in ministry, i.e., that Psychologists or more aptly Psychiatrists can take you apart and hand you a paper bag with you inside of it but can't put humpty dumpty together again! GG is again creating the US vs. THEM scenario where he then can say "How can two walk together except they be agreed?" thus separating us and indoctrinating us as to the weakness and shortcomings of Christianity at large.

BTW psychology in many forms - general, abnormal, pediatric, etc. is required for many majors.
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jesusfreak
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« Reply #12 on: January 29, 2003, 02:25:18 am »


When you say fear, what do you mean? I don't understand. But it's interesting to note Dave Hunt's book. I think I've run across it before somewhere, as it sounds familiar.

I have a copy on my bookshelf

Quote
I've been thinking about taking psychology next year in school. and that's why I wanted other's ideas on the topic in general. I'd still love to hear other responses. if you dont feel comforable posting, you can email me or IM me here if you'd prefer. I just want opinions and thoughts about it.
Yours in Christ,
Emily St.

It is important to study that which you decide to despise.  I would say that if the subject interests you, go for it.  I remeber it as one of those classes where the lectures were rathering boring but the group converstations and the directed readings were the most interesting.
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outdeep
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« Reply #13 on: January 29, 2003, 03:30:07 am »

I appreciate Eden's post as I think as Christians we do ourselves a great disservice if we throw out the intellect.  The false distinction that is often made in Christian circles (God wants your heart, not your head) is one of those Christian cliches that eventually do more harm than good.

Yes, I understand that that over-intellectualizing can keep one from a genuine relationship with God.  But the issue there is a lack of humility, not the intellect.

I think this issue, though prevelant in the Assembly, is often found in the body of Christ at large.  I have heard so many horror stories from Christians of the danger of reading "Harry Potter".  Yet, what do we set forth in response to challenge and impact our world?  The Prayer of Jabez coffee commuter mug?  I wish that Christians would study Harry Potter (a delightful read with lovely, colorful characters) in order to craft and construct vivid characters, good plotting, and tight literary rules.  Then they can go forth and use their intellect, creativity and skills to craft something even better that would glorify God.

All truth is God's truth.  Issac Newton and Pascal believed in an orderly God.  Therefore, they sought to explore His orderly universe.  Granted, all truth must be weighted against what we know from Scripture.  But, that doesn't mean that Scripture is the only source of things worth knowing.  (I had a difficult time finding a verse in the Bible to help my foster daughter with bonding and attachment issues - I did much better with a book on psycology).

In C.S. Lewis' book "Mere Christianity", he has an excellent chapter titled "Christianity and Psychotherapy".   I don't want to summarize from memory as I will probably get some details wrong.  I'll leave it for someone else as a homework assignment to read that chapter and post their thoughts.

-Dave




« Last Edit: January 29, 2003, 03:40:15 am by Dave Sable » Logged
Mark C.
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« Reply #14 on: February 01, 2003, 09:28:10 am »

Hi Emily and Others:
  In the early Assem. years Betty counselled using a form of psychology called, "Reality Therapy."  I forget the author's name of the book with the same title, but it was a rejection of psychotherapy as a method.  It's main theme was that mental illness is due to being dishonest with oneself.  If that is the case then "physician heal thyself" should be the motto for both GG and BG.
  It is true that certain kinds of mental illness have as a sympton delusional characteristics, but the issue is what is causing the person to have that reaction?
   Psychology is a very difficult and imprecise science because people are very difficult and imprecise.  God has placed eternity in our hearts and there is a great depth there.  It is true that only the love of God can really heal a broken heart and bring peace to a troubled mind, but we must be able to communicate that message to a person who is emotionally troubled.
  GG is a great example of the above as he lives in a delusional world that none can penetrate.  He must know what evil he has done and yet he can still deny ever doing these things!
   Psycholgy is valuable in identifying sick ways of dealing with life and with confronting those who are damaging themselves with these sick ways.  These sick ways come from being part of sinful humanity.  As humans some have a tendency toward depression, sexual sin, anger, etc.  After salvation we carry with us our particular weakness and sometimes it can get the better of us.  The Bible teaches us that such human weakness is to be expected among believers and that we are to help one another with these problems.  When a "brother is overtaken in a fault" we are to restore such a one in a spirit of meekness (meaning we are to understand that we are made of the same weak flesh).
   In an environment, like the Assembly, where individuals are afraid to be honest with their Parents or Leaders the problems escalate and can lead to disastrous ends.  In the false holiness atmosphere of the Assm. a very harmful dynamic is set up which intensifies our problems and can really twist a soul; so much so that suicide seems the only way out!  These individuals need those who can bring them back to a healthy understanding of the grace of God.  There are doctors who are skilled at this work and are still faithful to the Gospel.  Of course Dave Hunt is correct in warning Christians to avoid psychotherapy and other such therapies that see Chrsitianity as the problem, not the cure.
                          God Bless,  Mark C.  
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