Where is.....

[Terr Huffman]

Hello everyone:

In my opinion we are being treated as children here. Things like whack John Malone over here and the apologetics re. him and how we should "interpret" him are  all beside the point. Form your own opinion and move on. This childishness isn't worth too much time.

[Mark C.]

Hi John,
  I think the verse in Gal. is perfectly applicable re. how to respond to David.  I think "exhort" would be possibly too strong a word for what I was desiring to communicate to you in my previous post.  How bout' I would like to invite you to consider a wider application of the passage in question?  Yes, entreat might be a better word.  Of course we can split hairs on what the word "is" really means and never have to be entreated.
 Come on!  The Word of God is clear we are to show care and compassion for those who are out of the way (now I'm exhorting).  The obvious application of the verse is we are to  seek RECOVERY of the fallen and not split theological hairs as to the nature of the fall.  Of couse we wish to recover the fallen to the truth, but not in a prideful and judgmental attitude that is condescending.
  In the Gospels we see our Lord responding to the "know-it-all-scripturally-sound-pharisaical-crowd" with harsh words and going out to the sinners and yes even heretics(Samaritan Woman) with words of Gospel grace.  Yes, Jesus reminded the Samaritan Woman by the well that she was a heretic, but also with great love gave her the gospel.  
  To question whether there is some technical reason for not applying compassion to a fallen brother vs. a  unregenerate person is to narrow the interpretation of scripture to a ridiculous level and to make argument in a purely defensive manner that has no desire to really understand the truth.
                    In truth and grace,  Mark  

[Oscar]

John,
You said in one of your posts that when people leave the Omaha Assembly that they go to a "big mustard tree" church and get into such things as "cable tv and christmas trees".
I was in the assembly for 18 or 19 years and left 13 years ago.  I have noticed that there are three basic ways people leave the assembly, (and probably other similar groups).  One is to identify the assembly with Christianity and reject both, ie, to fall away.  A second is to leave the assembly and George Geftakys, and then to find or found some other group that expresses the same type of critical, exclusive, legalistic ideas as George does.  In other words, they leave George but take him along in their attitudes.  Unless, of course, the attitude was there already.
I once had a conversation with a man who was in this type of group.  He was from Omaha, and  I believe you knew him.  A dear brother, but very critical of others.  Once I was talking to him and he was making sweeping, condemning statements about "these churches".  
I asked him, "How many churches have you actually been to?"  He tried to avoid answering, but finally said, "three".
I told him that that sample is a tad small to be able to make generalizations about 30,000,000 American Christians alone, not to speak of all the rest.  He admitted that "There is something in what you are saying."
The third way, John, is to learn about God's grace, and about how to be gracious.  And yes, we usually do these things at what you call "big mustard tree" churches. This, by the way, is an understanding of one of Christ's parables that is very popular among Plymouth Bretheren assemblies.  That's where George got it I'm sure.
By the way, we call them healthy, growing churches.
God bless,
Tom Maddux

[Arthur]

He once named the Lord Jesus Christ - presumably following him in water baptism - and now comes along with service to Buddha, advertises his learning under teaching demons,

John,  

I think you may have a point here in this one post quoted above, let's think about this.  You are saying that David is a Christian (one who "named the Lord Jesus Christ - presumably following him in water baptism), and that now he is no longer following Jesus but serving the demon Buddha, and that makes him an apostate.  Well, what can we say?  It is true.  I am hopeful that perhaps the reason David took this course is because leaving the assembly makes one have serious doubts about things and makes things confusing, and that the possibility exists that he may come back to the truth.  
Have you totally written him off?  Couldn't he come back to the Lord Jesus?  I think that is why myself and others have exhorted you to be more kind.  Have you passed final judgment on the man?  Wouldn't it be better to try to win him back to Christ by showing His same unconditional love?
Now you may say, no, we must not be friendly to the enemy.  But who is the enemy?  Satan of course.  We wrestle not with flesh and blood...  So this man's soul is in the balance.  Or do you think he is lost with no possibility of return?  Don't we all have a chance until the day we die?
Maybe I'm wrong here.  This is one thing I still have a question about, so if you can, please enlighten us.  You know how the Bible talks about false prophets, I'm talking about II Pet 2 and Jude, among others.  Are these men born to be bad?  You know, like Judas, the son of perdition.  It was better if he wouldn't have been born.
This reminds me of some of the leaders in the assembly.  I grew up in a Christian home and was continually surrounded by Christians most of my life.  It wasn't until I joined the assembly and then left that I found out that there were such men in existence as described in the Bible as "wolves in sheep’s clothing".  To me, it was unthinkable that a person could use the Good News for selfish purposes. Now, I've had a taste of what evil a man can do. It's sickening.  To me that is the worst possible thing a person could do, this spiritual abuse -- using another man's basic belief in God to control him and extort him for personal gain.  Isn't that the very thing for which Jesus so harshly upbraided the Pharisees?
If anyone fits the II Pet 2 description I think it would be some assembly leaders and not David M.  I think there is still hope for him.  He's not pretending to be a Christian and yet living as a Buddhist.  As for the assembly leaders, I'm not sure.  It would be great if they repented and I sure hope that would happen, but I'm thinking that is just the nature of the beast.  I hope I'm wrong.

These are some heavy words, and their weight has increased with experience:
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.  And many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of.  And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you: whose judgment now of a long time lingereth not, and their damnation slumbereth not.  
II Pet 2:1-3

[Arthur]

freebird!  I love you bro.  Yes, blow the trumpet! These walls are coming down!
Please put up with a little of my quibble won't you? I think it is important for us, I think you'll agree, to help think these things through.  To put it in the words of Tom C.  "I want the truth!"  I am very much enjoying hearing all of your thoughts on this.  This is great!

[Arthur]

Mark, I just now read this.  There are so many posts on this board--it's huge.  Excellent post, brother.

Hi John,
  I think the verse in Gal. is perfectly applicable re. how to respond to David.  I think "exhort" would be possibly too strong a word for what I was desiring to communicate to you in my previous post.  How bout' I would like to invite you to consider a wider application of the passage in question?  Yes, entreat might be a better word.  Of course we can split hairs on what the word "is" really means and never have to be entreated.
 Come on!  The Word of God is clear we are to show care and compassion for those who are out of the way (now I'm exhorting).  The obvious application of the verse is we are to  seek RECOVERY of the fallen and not split theological hairs as to the nature of the fall.  Of couse we wish to recover the fallen to the truth, but not in a prideful and judgmental attitude that is condescending.
  In the Gospels we see our Lord responding to the "know-it-all-scripturally-sound-pharisaical-crowd" with harsh words and going out to the sinners and yes even heretics(Samaritan Woman) with words of Gospel grace.  Yes, Jesus reminded the Samaritan Woman by the well that she was a heretic, but also with great love gave her the gospel.  
  To question whether there is some technical reason for not applying compassion to a fallen brother vs. a  unregenerate person is to narrow the interpretation of scripture to a ridiculous level and to make argument in a purely defensive manner that has no desire to really understand the truth.
                    In truth and grace,  Mark  

[editor]

Greetings in the Lord Jesus Christ--this is not flippant.

I figured out what John was up to today, while listening to a "man" preacher, to whom The Lord has committed the scriptures.

When I first left the Lodge, the Lord Himself slapped me hard, way harder than John is slapping us here.  He showed me that I was a Pharisee, and that I was blind and proud.  Of course, blindness and pride make it kinda difficult to really understand the Bible---exactly like a JW scholar to be precise.

So, I wrote about this experience, which is on the website, far down the list of articles.  I am a former Pharisee.  Although I have regained my sight, I have not regained my knowledge, because I never had any to begin with!

After my humiliation, God began to use me, through my writing.  That is why we are all here.  Some of you may know that this is "my" website.

My writings were criticised. I was called unloving, arrogant, a liar, a know it all, basically everything that John is being called.  Some of you used to call me that, but you have repented. Some people reading this are still calling me the Enemy, etc.

So,  what John is doing, is HELPING, yes I said HELPING, us to avoid escaping the lodge, only to fall into the moat that surrounds the lodge.  His method is abrasive, direct, and blunt.  There are other ways to say it, but there is only one John Malone, for which we thank God. One is enough, two is two too many.

If you edit out the stuff that tweaks you, and look at what he is actually saying, you will find that you agree with him.  for example:

"Girl Preachers"--do any of you want a woman leading your church?  Think of Betty G.  WE AGREE WITH YOU JOHN! even if you are an arrogant @#$%$.!!!

Apostates---a harsh word, that John made up from his own imagination? NO! It is a Biblical term, with a very clear and serious meaning.

I could go on and on.  We are reacting to what we think he is saying, not what he is actually saying.  

John is the Rush Limbaugh of GA.com

Is is a big, loudmouthed, arrogant, harmless fuzzball.

Give him a chance, think about what he says--Tell him you think he is out to lunch---and everyone will get along just fine.

The alternative is to censor him in Lodge fashion.

John, You are a bull on steroids, loose in the Lodge China factory!  Run baby, Run! Yahoo!!!

The rest of us, keep this jerk in check. Tell him what you think, but make sure you address what he is saying.  John needs our help.

What do you say dear saints?  Amen

Editor

[Arthur]

Do you have an answer to my questions? Talk about girly preachers.   Answer the direct question and don't get flowery.  Speak to the point mister.

1. Do all people have a chance to repent until the day they die? And by implication, we therefore cannot write anyone off and pass a final judgement on them? For that matter, is it our place to judge?

2. Are people born bad?  I'm not talking about our sinful nature I'm talking about: are some people just plain false prophets, false teachers,  etc. and that's what they are, that's what they were destined to be, no way of changing it?

3. What is your take on how we should deal with apostates?  Treat them as enemies or hope for their repentence?

4.  Is there a difference between someone like David M and George G?

Please show me the scriptures.  Thank you.

[Terry Huffman]

Oscar:
Thank you for your wisdom and example. You were able to state truth not only here but by telephone years ago to me with grace. Truth and grace can seem to be mutually exclusive sometimes, but they needn't be.

[Rachel]

John,

Since you seem to think women should not "teach" the scriptures, what is, in your opinion, our role?  And what is the biblical support?

I am, as a women, interested to know.

Rachel

[Arthur]

Thank you for the answers, John.

[Oscar]

Hey John,
Good to hear from you.  I enjoy fan mail.
It sure is wonderful to be among the Last Faithful Few.
The Holy Remnant, those who have not bowed the knee to Baal.  A Community of Light and Life in a sea of darkness.
I've been there and done that John.  I got over it. I have learned something of God's wonderful grace.  I think most of us on these boards have.  
You should give it a try.
By the way, I put up a prelimenary reply to your nice little message of 12/22 under the new thread about answering John Malone Sr.
God bless,
Tom Maddux

[Sebastian Andrew]

Mr Malone needs to edit out his address re. SHOULD I TALK to Charity. This sets a bad precedent for this website when men invite girls to their home, and it doesn't look good.

[Aslan213]

John,

Personally, I want, in a public forum of Christians, to point out an apostate, and then just leave him alone.

That's great John!  Except this forum is for the healing of those who have left the assembly.  It's available to everyone.

[Mark C.]

Hi Greg!
  I just talked with Marc Arambula last week; would you like his phone number?  I told him about the site, but his monitor is broken and he can't use his computer right now.
  Dave Reveley, last I heard, was going out as a missionary with his wife.  He was living in Portland Oregon.  I gave Eric his parents phone number (it was a very old number and I don't know if it was good) to try and track him down.
               Merry Christmas and God Bless,  Mark