AssemblyBoard
August 13, 2020, 09:30:42 pm *
The board has been closed to new content. It is available as a searchable archive only. This information will remain available indefinitely.

I can be reached at brian@tucker.name

For a repository of informational articles and current information on The Assembly, see http://www.geftakysassembly.com
 
   Home   Search  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: SALVATION  (Read 4730 times)
Joe Sperling
Guest


Email
« on: December 17, 2008, 01:24:49 am »

I am moving this post from "Sharing Bible Verses" to it's own thread since the subject of "salvation" is what is being discussed.  It would be interesting to hear what any others have to say on the subject of salvation vs. rewards, and whether salvation is something we completely possess when we receive Christ, or whether it is something one receives in "degrees",  as a poster on another thread espouses.


The LORD will perfect that which concerneth me: thy mercy, O LORD, endureth for ever: forsake not the works of thine own hands.(Ps. 138-8)

Wesley's Notes:

138:8 Perfect - Will finish the great work of my deliverance.

Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Bible Commentary:

8. God will fulfil His promise.

Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary:

138:6-8 "Though the Lord is high, yet he has respect to every lowly, humbled sinner; but the proud and unbelieving will be banished far from his blissful presence. Divine consolations have enough in them to revive us, even when we walk in the midst of troubles. And God will save his own people that they may be revived by the Holy Spirit, the Giver of life and holiness. If we give to God the glory of his mercy, we may take to ourselves the comfort. This confidence will not do away, but quicken prayer. Whatever good there is in us, it is God works in us both to will and to do. The Lord will perfect the salvation of every true believer, and he will never forsake those whom he has created anew in Christ Jesus unto good works". -M.H.

How blessed it is to know that God WILL continue in us and perfect us.  David doesn't say "The Lord will perfect that which concerns me...if I yield enough, or if I am faithful enough". Thank God there are no "ifs" here!   No---David says the Lord WILL "perfect that which concerns me"--he will accomplish it despite himself!! And this applies to every believer too! The Lord WILL accomplish what he has set out to do. "Faithful is He who called you, who also will do it". (note: it doesn't say he "might" do it as long as we are faithful and true and yielding---it just says he WILL DO IT). This removes any attempt we might think we can make to "gain" more glory, because whatever glory we have will be gotten by the Lord himself---not of us. "It is God who works in you both to will and to do of his good pleasure".  Does this then cause us to be less faithful or lax in service because God is going to do it all?  On the contrary----realizing that fills one with such thankfulness and joy that one seeks to please the Lord in all things. We are not saved BY our works, but UNTO good works! (Eph 2:9) "Entering into rest" is "ceasing from one's own works", and believing and accepting all that Jesus has already done for us! (Hebrews).

Our justification, sanctification, and glorification are all of God himself! (see Romans 8:30)  I love the subject of salvation---I remember that day so clearly---the day the Lord (through my neighbor) knocked on my door and gave me a Gospel of John. Jesus came into my heart that day and He has never left me. And the Holy Spirit often reminds me of that day when I either feel I am either very spiritual   or the opposite, when I feel worthless.  I was NOTHING when he came to the door that day----and I am still NOTHING all of these years later.  Nothing I have done has made me MORE WORTHY in God's sight------because I NEVER was WORTHY to begin with!  If I was NOTHING when God redeemed me, and only He made me valuable by loving me, how can I possibly believe that I could "earn" more glory, or "earn" more position in Heaven by anything I DO? Can anyone "earn" MORE of God's love than he already showed by dying on the cross for us? Of course not!! "We love Him because He first loved us"   And when did he love us?  "While we were yet sinners".  Do we really feel we could MERIT more love, or more glory than he has already gained for us himself, through our own faithfulness and works?        How could we really believe that?? The only MERIT there is in Jesus Christ Himself--to think otherwise is literally to take away the glory only God Himself is due!

Praise the Lord for his "free gift" of eternal salvation! I praise God for the day He knocked on that door and gave me the GOOD NEWS!!
 
 
 
« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 01:28:38 am by Joe Sperling » Logged
juststarted
Guest


Email
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2008, 02:35:30 am »

The quote on Solomon building the temple and David not has many flaws to that logic. Remember Joshua led the people into the promised land and Moses did not. Are we then to assume that their present privilege was the end of what they received. Moses is there with our Lord on the mount of transfiguration. I would much rather be as David who had his temporal privilege taken away yet will be King over israel once again.
Logged
Joe Sperling
Guest


Email
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2008, 03:15:49 am »

The quote on Solomon building the temple and David not has many flaws to that logic. Remember Joshua led the people into the promised land and Moses did not. Are we then to assume that their present privilege was the end of what they received. Moses is there with our Lord on the mount of transfiguration. I would much rather be as David who had his temporal privilege taken away yet will be King over israel once again.

I have to agree.

What Juststarted is referring to is a quote I had taken from another site regarding Solomon,
but then later deleted.  But here is the quote once again to avoid confusion:

"Sure, David had the assurance of God's faithfulness, but I think it is worth mentioning that he did not get to build the temple as Solomon did.  It is noteworthy to point out that according to types, David was a man after God's own heart and seemed to be well pleasing in the sight of the Lord even while he had terrible failure in his life...

But, it was Solomon who truly came into the crown of Wisdom and was allowed to build from David's provision.  Solomon received the REWARD"!


These were not my thoughts, but the other poster's thoughts.  I had pointed out in response (in the post I deleted apparently just as juststarted was reading it and replying) that Solomon in 1 Kings 6  took 7 years to build the house of the Lord,  but then takes 13 years to build his own house(1 Kings 7:1)!  So as far as Solomon being allowed to build from "David's provision" (as stated above), it appears Solomon used that "provision" far more on himself than on the Lord, using almost twice as much time to finish his own house versus the Lord's house.

Also, David is listed in Hebrews 11 directly by name, whereas Solomon is not---and as juststarted mentioned, David (despite all of his earthly moral failings) is destined to be the King of Israel on a restored earth for all of eternity.  So, we need to ask ourselves, upon what does God base his rewards?

Solomon was very wise for sure, but David is remembered for being "the apple of God's eye"---as God also "accepted Abraham's faith AS righteousness" and called him "friend". Not for his works, but for his faith. That is why I state that a newly born-again Christian has received the SAME that a Christian who has walked with God for thirty years has.  The Christian who has walked with God for thirty years has had more time to EXPRESS through his life what ALREADY DWELLS inside him, whereas the babe has not had time to express it, but still has the same salvation as the 30 year Christian has within their heart. Both are saved EQUALLY---only one has had time to EXPRESS that salvation.

As I mentioned before as an example---Prince Charles was BORN with the name "Prince"---he did not EARN the name "Prince"---it was his by birth.  If he died at two days old the headlines would still have said "Tiny Prince dies at two days old"---yet he had no time to "earn" the name of "Prince" at all!  Likewise, we as Christians are "born-again" as "Sons"----we do not slowly, through process, BECOME sons-----we ALREADY ARE.  That is why a babe in Christ cries "ABBA FATHER".  If the Lord wills, and we live as Christians for fifty years, we have that time to bring glory to God, and express the salvation given to us when we were born-again.  If the Lord wills, and we die a month after becoming a Christian, will we have far less than the Christian of fifty years has in Heaven?  I do not believe the Bible teaches that at all!  Has the fifty year Christian "earned" something that the babe has not been given by Christ also? How could he?  Salvation is a "gift". 

When we read the story of the Prodigal Son we have another example of Matthew 20:1-16.  The older son becomes angry because he says he has faithfully served the father and has never left his side---he asks why the prodigal should receive a fatted calf?  But the Father says "Everything I have is ALREADY YOURS"---the son thought he had "earned" something by being faithful--but the father tells him he has NOT EARNED ANYTHING AT ALL----BECAUSE IT HAS ALREADY BEEN HIS THE WHOLE TIME.

The Bible says "Beloved (all Christians), NOW ARE WE THE SONS OF GOD" (1 John 3:2)---this is not an interpretation of mine----John the Apostle is CLEARLY stating a fact.  The two day old Christian being addressed by John, and the 30 year Christian being addressed by John are not separated by him!  Becoming a "son" is not a process---it is a gift of God. This is clearly taught in Scripture.



« Last Edit: December 17, 2008, 05:49:23 am by Joe Sperling » Logged
Mark C.
Guest


Email
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2008, 07:07:54 am »

Yes, thanks Joe!

  This discussion of salvation is a very timely consideration, for especially at this time of year it is good to really think about what God did in sending the Son.

  Disputes about doctrine can seem pointless to many, and in some cases I would agree----as in, baptism by immersion or sprinkling, whether we have a "paid pastor", or "teaching elders", etc.  As exassemblyites we certainly do feel the need to be more tolerant of other points of view (I think most of us now do).

  The Gospel of the grace of God is one teaching that we can't afford to allow it's being confused to the point where the blessedness is lost--- in other words, it's power to affect for the good humanity.

  The biggest enemy of the light of the Gospel does not come from it's declared enemies (atheists, Islam, etc.) but from those who say they believe the bible and yet distort that message.  The Gospel is the world's only hope and therefore a principle that we must stand fast in and for!

  "What's wrong with urging people to strive for inner purity and to have a perfect inner Christ like life", some may be thinking, "and why does that necessarily make one an enemy of the Gospel?"

   On it's face, and without giving it too much thought, it sounds like the inner experience of perfect purity in my life is the legitimate consequence of faith in Christ.  Indeed, the bible does teach that the Gospel will make us perfect in Christ as an actual experiential fact one day----- but not yet  .

  Of course we should strive to have pure thoughts, and affections, but this is not what these "inner kingdom perfectionists" are talking about.  Purity with them is the total death of the "self life", by certain kinds of "tricky inner doings," that we learn to apply within.  There is another name for these practices: Eastern religion.  I know, I use to practice this stuff before I was saved and there is no practical difference between the two (if any would like a gloomy talk on what this involves I can explain).

  Honesty is the only way to freedom from the arrogance of those who hold the position that they can create the kind of purity in their souls where all self life is banished and only pure love now reigns in their hearts.

   When a person (even a regenerated one), from the time he/she wakes up until they go to sleep, has an ego that is very much alive.  In that self life (ego) is a very strong determination to survive and to satisfy it's needs.  Within that self (again, even the saved) are certain sinful predispositions that seek to express themselves in our lives---- It could be laziness, gluttony, immoral desires, irritability, anger,etc.  Each of us has our own worse 'demons' that we struggle with.

  It's kind of funny, (in an ironic way, not hah-hah) that of all the worse kinds of impurities "pride" is the worst, (being called the sin of the devil) as those who claim to have defeated self suffer from this particular malady in spades!  The arrogance that believes it has attained to a higher state of consciousness than the common riff-raff below it is the most obnoxious kind of pride that can exist---"Lord I thank thee that I am not like other men---"

  Yes, we need to resist the sinful predispositions in our life, but we will be fighting them until the day we die.  However, and this is a key difference, we fight because we are saved, not in order to save ourselves.

   What real difference does it make?   With those laboring to perfect Christ in their souls as a means to earn God's favor you get folks like GG and Betty---- monstrous hypocrites!   On the other side: those whose only hope for salvation is in Christ and his finished work you get a justified publican--- "you will know them by their fruits."

                                                      Merry Christmas,  Mark C.

                             (PS  Brian, snowflakes and Santas please) Wink 

 

Logged
Joe Sperling
Guest


Email
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2008, 01:43:28 am »

Mark----

You said:

The Gospel of the grace of God is one teaching that we can't afford to allow it's being confused to the point where the blessedness is lost--- in other words, it's power to affect for the good humanity.

  The biggest enemy of the light of the Gospel does not come from it's declared enemies (atheists, Islam, etc.) but from those who say they believe the bible and yet distort that message.  The Gospel is the world's only hope and therefore a principle that we must stand fast in and for!


I couldn't agree with you more.  I have a habit of jumping around to different sites, and reading commentary---even if I know that normally I will only read a bit and then vacate the premises--(what I mean is I immediately see where some are going and it just doesn't hold my interest for very long).

But this time I visited and saw this teaching regarding salvation, and thought of people visiting there and reading such a skewed view of Scripture, and felt the need to cut and paste it back here and refute it.  It was not a "personal attack" against anyone-----but an attempted refutation of what I feel is a very off-base view of salvation. It is a "works-based" type of "Galatianism" (such as was once taught in the Assembly also----and is still taught in many legalistic churches) which definitely needs to be held up to the light and addressed.  There are those who say there is a "literal" interpretation of Scripture, but also a "spritual" interpretation----unfortunately those who speak of the "spritual" interpretation are going to give you THEIR interpretation as the correct spritual view, and not the true and literal interpretation accepted by most scholars and commentators.

When we see a Scripture such as "Beloved, NOW are we the Sons of God" do we accept it literally, or do we attempt to spiritualize it?  When we read Romans 8:30, which puts the Christian's glorification in the past tense (as something God sees as ALREADY A FACT)---do we accept the literal teaching, or try to "spiritualize" it (something George attempted to do when the verse did not fall into his doctrine of sonship--and something, unfortunately, that many false teachers do when literal scripture clashes with their own doctrine).

The correct teaching regarding salvation is extremely important----if not Paul would not have called the Galatians "bewitched" when they started accepting a legalized version of the Gospel of salvation, or Jude, when he said to "earnestly contend for the faith" when facing false teachers who were teaching a heretical version of the Gospel of salvation "once delivered to the saints".

We all know the damage that was done to many due to a legalized version of the Gospel being taught to unsuspecting hearts.  This BB and the Assembly Reflections website are both a result of the affects and resulting damage of that teaching on the many who were mislead into error. When one sees an effort to ressurrect such teaching, refutation is definintely in order.
« Last Edit: December 18, 2008, 01:58:20 am by Joe Sperling » Logged
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!