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Author Topic: Hard To Deal With.  (Read 26142 times)
OnlyJesus24
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« on: January 22, 2003, 05:47:06 pm »

What made the assembly hard to grow up in as a kid, and especially as a teenager? I would say that in my case it was hard to have close relationships with many who were'nt in the assembly. Also, there was rarely an oppurtunity to invite someone to an assembly meeting without something strange happening. But many good things kept me from evil as well. My parents kept me accountable in who i was friends with and how often i was reading my bible, praying, etc. Please share your ideas on what made the assembly hard to grow up in, but also maybe some great things that you have learned their as well.  
« Last Edit: January 22, 2003, 05:50:09 pm by Luke Mathews » Logged
freebird
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« Reply #1 on: January 22, 2003, 08:16:32 pm »

Luke,

I'm not an assembly kid, but a kid a heart.  I just wanted to say "God bless you".  Keep hope!  And keep your direction to God.  Remember Joseph in the book of Genesis, that in all that he went through, GOD WAS WITH HIM!  He will NEVER leave you.

Garth
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Scott McCumber
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« Reply #2 on: January 23, 2003, 07:58:14 am »

Hey, Luke, you definitely know where you're coming from. I could sit here and post a loooong list of the travails of being an Assembly Kid, but I let go of that. Had to or I'd give myself too many excuses not to live a commendable life.

So when I found the website I decided to focus on what good there was. Of course the gospel is the most important but I would have gotten that other places.

That makes the best thing about being an Assembly Kid other Assembly Kids! Our "lodge" was loaded with families. I grew up with dozens of brothers and sisters.

We saw each other half a dozen times a week. We stayed at each other's homes. We sat next to each other in meetings - if we were behaving. We went to Youth Fellowship. We camped. We had crushes on each other. We got into A LOT of trouble.

We had lunch together every Sunday. We passed notes. We made faces across the room during prayer meetings. We guarded tents together. We went to Six Flags. Hay rides. Rented a local gym to run around in.

Through it all we stuck together. Had to. No other kids knew what we were talking about half the time!

Now 15 years later, I'm talking and reconnecting with these same people and we're picking up right where we left off. And I'm meeting people from all over the country that I never knew before but know exactly what I'm talking about.

That's the best thing about being an Assembly Kid.
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OnlyJesus24
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« Reply #3 on: January 23, 2003, 05:54:09 pm »

I would have to agree that many friends were made during the time in the assembly, but having grown up in a smaller assembly there was not one person my age in the it Sad.
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jesusfreak
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« Reply #4 on: January 23, 2003, 10:56:19 pm »

First of all, i am an AK. That said, i would add that due to recent events, i have been dwelling on this very issue, and thinking about what teachings were ingrained in me while "growing up under the ministry".  I will like to add that all the saints have been supportive to me my entire life, and i have no regrets about having grown up in this manner.  In fact, i view myself as blessed beyond measure. I post the following as a logical analysis of what happens, not as a vent for frustration in the way it was done.

The first issue, i personally feel that most of the "hardship" lies in expectations.  In the gathering where i grew up, there were plenty of other AKs my age, and many of them are my best of friends (true, mature friends in whom i can confide and in whom i can recieve consoul) so in that aspect, i cannot relate with Luke here.  The expectations i speak of stem from assumed knowledge (knowing what is what spiritually, knowing why) but also in assumed actions.  The first one, i do not find fault in what was done, teaching the Youth the things of Christ, but i would greatly encourage the teachers to expand the Youths vision, show them other Godly writers and show them what they feel about various theological topics.  Too often, the AKs are left with a final decision on why we do something, although usually with the biblical backing as to why, but seldomly with additional knowledge as to how else it might be done.  I understand that this is done to keep Young believers from getting confused, and that it all comes back to Christ any way you look at it, but more often than not, i have seen AKs perceptions toward other forms of worship (ie, speaking in tounges) completely skewed.  I *do* agree with the way the children are taught, but the teachers should be excercised in the totality of the decision to do something a certian way, rather than communicate the simplified version, or at least meantion that there are other manners in which to do things.

The expected actions of an AK revolve around the idea that since we grew up under the ministry, we would know exactly how to walk the Walk.  We would know all the various parts, and what they mean.  It is expected that armed with this knowledge, we will be able to keep on a straight path.  Granted this is true in a sense, but the expection that i feel is present (although i see it only in my mind, and i havent inquired of other AKs whether it is also prevelant in their thinking) is that it is surprising when it is heard that an AK has fallen away from fellowship in Christ, or has committed a harse sin.  I, myself, have done maybe stupid things which i eventually repented of.  At later dates, i would be giving testimony to a friend for some reason or another, and i would meantion my stumbling.  More times than not, they would be instantly shocked, but would immediatly praise the Lord that He pulled be back to him.  Now, i am not saying that we are at all hindered by the saints caring for our lives, show in their consern for our continued wellbeing (i am uttering thankful), but it is something that comes to mind when i think about how the older assembly crew relate to the younger.  
 
Now, as for what is ingrained into me.  I have done OK in school, an event that i would like to attribute to the emphasis on studying the bible that has been placed.  I have a respect for my elders, rooted in awe of the value of their experience.  I know what i believe in the most important things (the youth teaching has taught this part very well, the most important part of being a christian is Christ).  

Anyway, i would be glad to answer any questions you have about AKs, and i will prob add to this when get ideas to paper

What made the assembly hard to grow up in as a kid, and especially as a teenager? I would say that in my case it was hard to have close relationships with many who were'nt in the assembly. Also, there was rarely an oppurtunity to invite someone to an assembly meeting without something strange happening. But many good things kept me from evil as well. My parents kept me accountable in who i was friends with and how often i was reading my bible, praying, etc. Please share your ideas on what made the assembly hard to grow up in, but also maybe some great things that you have learned their as well.  
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brad
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« Reply #5 on: January 27, 2003, 02:38:16 am »

Hey Guys...just a quick thought from one of the "OLD MIDWEST" boys( Born into the Assembly at Tuscola IL 1969-1988, Lived with George for summer school from 1979-86, MTT to Rhode Island with Tim and Ginger in 1987...left from Charleston/EIU in 1988)
Growing up with the Assembly as your babysitter is not a normal or healthy experience. Think "Amish" and your closer than "Baptist". Believe me I grew up near them both...the similarities are more than the differences.

Your identity, your attitude and your beliefs are drowing in Georgism's and conditioned beliefs that will take some serious time to "unlearn". I don't know how much George directly impacted the assembly after I left, but when there it was astounding and I am STILL unlearning many of my preadoloscent and teen experiences in Tuscola.  

My strongest advice is to seriously let GODS grace permeate your soul, read anything you can get from Max Lucado ! Then read it again...until you begin to loose the Assembly "Attitude" and subconcious ability to "judge" any and all prior to even making their aquaintance. This includes major disclosure to your future spouse or fiance. My wife of 12 years has had to put up with some serious dysfuntion on my part that GOD in his grace is changing and transforming...most of which can be directly traced back to the Assembly and its exclusive beliefs.

Their was/is a serious tendency for Assembly kids to learn two distinct personalities...a survival adaption to keep us sane. Unfortunately after we leave the assembly, it is difficult to unlearn. I highly recommend a book by John Eldridge.."WILD AT HEART"...especially for men, but my wife loved it too. We have to let down our guard and be "real" not perfect kids conditioned to sit through an all night of prayer monthly, saturday morning tape minestry, hours and hours of minestry...work days etc... you get the idea. We can fail, we do fail and GOD is ready to reveal himself...and finally work in our lives. A fake person is exactly what the assembly knows how to create, maybe better than anyother.

The good stuff, is exactly what Scott McCumber has repeatedly posted, the healing and power of restored relationships. Thanks Brian TACO for all your work and vision in this board site, and thanks to Scott McCumber for the heads up it was here. The truth will set you free...

Peace.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2003, 02:47:30 am by Brad Mathias » Logged
Scott McCumber
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« Reply #6 on: January 27, 2003, 09:56:48 am »

Hi, gang, especially Brad,

Here is what I have OBSERVED (no judgement): 1: The very fact that there are Assembly Kids in their late teens to early 20's is significantly different from what we are used to seeing.

Of approximately 75 Assembly Kids from Tuscola, Champaign and Springfield from the late 70's to late 80's APPROXIMATELY 70 of them left fellowship and never looked back. No numbers, but the vast majority of the 70 were so turned off to the TRUTH about Jesus Christ that they are just now achieving a peace about about their theological heritage.

The fact that this next generation of Assembly Kids is still clinging to and defending the Assembly patterns means something is different. Is this significant?

2: This difference in their upbringing and their willingness to stay involved in the Assembly is NOT significant. How can I say that, you ask?

It only means that the LOCAL assemblies in this region have learned enough from their mistakes to loosen the reigns on their children enough that the children can say, after viewing some of the posts concerning the horrific abuses of Assembly leaders, "What? That's not the way it is! We never saw anything like that!"

The problem is they firmly believe that since they have not personally experienced the life altering spiritual abuse of the Assembly doctrine, that therefore it does not exist. Part of the problem is they cannot know if they have experienced spirtual abuse because they have no other experience on which to base their experience!

They have no understanding that there are inherent flaws in the doctrine of the Assembly, in the Assembly's patterns of worship or in the Assembly's leadership structure.

If anyone who reads this post takes any one thought out of it, please take this: The Assembly pattern/docrine is designed/pre-conceived/tailored so that one man or a small group of leaders can spirtually dominate large numbers of well-intentioned believers.

This domination can manifest itself in terrible abuses such as have been proven to occur in Fullerton and San Luis Obispo, OR it can be much more subtle, demanding labor for inheritance, legalism, causing humiliation, USURPING CHRIST"S AUTHORITY IN A MAN'S LIFE.

Some areas of a man's life where the authority of Christ can be usurped (i.e. the freedom of life in Christ paid for by His blood): How often he should attend meetings, what his contribution should be when attending meetings, what personal standards are kept in his home in regards to dress (levels of modesty for his wife and children), what television shows (i.e. entertainment) are appropriate for his family, what foods he should eat, where he should work, how he should FEEL about other believers, how he should FEEL (not think or believe) about other doctrines, what hymns should be sing, how should he couch the phrases of his prayers, how many questions and of what nature should be put to the appointed leadership in his local gathering, what time should he awake in the morning so that he has an "appropriate" amount of time to spend on his knees, etc.

This list is literally endless as the choices that are given to a man are endless and freely given to him by Christ.

Do not take this to mean that there is no accountability. Do not take this to mean that Godly leaders have nothing to offer or do not have a responsibility to correct or teach or counsel or even discipline.

However, the patterns and doctrine of the Assembly allow, even cause, even encourage, even require, that its leadership go a step beyond and usurp the authority and freedom of Christ in a man's life.

I'm tired. I'm done for now. Tongue

Please feel free to correct my doctrinal flaws! I'll listen.

Scott

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brad
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« Reply #7 on: January 27, 2003, 07:03:43 pm »

Scott, once again you make a very good point.... we all can only address the reference of our own experience. As with all groups there are inner and outer levels of involvement dramatically affecting the individuals involved. Our ( scott and i) perspective has to be older and different than these kids today...but does that mean the Assembly changed or simply never had another situation like Tuscola again? By the way...McCumber is older than me Grin

I am curious, are todays Assembly Kids feeling different about the Assembly then we did / do ?  

Is it possible that the Midwest / Tuscola experience was relatively unusual and isolated situation...or was it this way on the west coast too? ( Lee Irons where are you? ). My guess is that because the Midwest fellowship was "older" than the others, and the base fellowship included families not single college students there was a different dynamic immediately. George spent a lot of time in Tuscola those early years ( 1970-1980) in an effort to "recruit" for his summer school and other training programs. He saw the risk with not reigning in the children quickly...sounds very similar to the tactics he and his son's are using with their own kids and grandchildren in SLO.

Rachel what do you think?

Last thought, no matter the current situation...those who were immersed in the Assembly have to begin to understand there is a whole big and wonderful world of genuine, spirit lead and mature Christians out there... don't underestimate the impact of the Assembly  and please follow through with some kind of  counseling and spiritual support when you leave. ( Maybe this forum can help in identifying reputable resources ) Satan is still deep at work here in decieving and confusing many into lumping the Assembly and Geftackys with GOD. They are NOTthe same and for complete healing / trust one has to make that distinction, both in our mind and in our hearts.  Smiley
Peace...
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brian
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« Reply #8 on: January 27, 2003, 08:08:20 pm »

Thanks Brian TACO

yes! thank you for that  Grin

rich mullins has been my favorite christian artist for years. i have all of his music, and a few of his autographs. there is a depth and genuiness (word?) he conveys that really appeals to me. ready for the storm, all? or perhaps a game of stratego?  Wink

several great points, brad. its great to have you around. i look forward to reconnecting more when i have time to breathe again.
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Kimberley Tobin
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« Reply #9 on: January 27, 2003, 08:32:21 pm »

Amen Scott!  You hit the nail on the head re: the fruit of the teens in the ministry, "by their fruit you shall know them."  This is actually one of the red flags that was raging in my mind as I considered the assembly, prior to leaving.  THE FRUIT STINKS, IT IS ROTTING ON THE VINE.  This is a warning sign to those involved and if they won't take heed to it, the Lord WILL deal with it.  

Your point about the 2nd generation in the midwest is well taken and I agree.  In fact, probably more dangerous.  These teens/young adults aren't even aware of the TRULY DANEROUS TEACHINGS that are taught in the assembly and are defending the assembly to their detriment.  I pray their eyes will be opened through the many dialogues on this BB, rather than simply shutting out all critical thinking because of the teaching that to question is to be "divisive".
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SugarMagnolia
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« Reply #10 on: January 28, 2003, 03:10:00 am »

Most kids tend go the opposite path of their next oldest sibling.  I think that might partially explain why much of the second generation remains willfully ignorant of the many flaws of the Assemblies.  That and parents who keep their kids as ignorant as possible by telling them that the website is a pack of lies, (if they allow them to read the website at all.)  It's a shame. Cry
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brad
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« Reply #11 on: January 28, 2003, 06:05:15 am »

Guys....remember Is GOD's hand too short? I think not. Second, third or surrogate generations of Assembly kids are sure to eventually find the Lord and his leading for themselves. Our role is not to force this, or even to beat them over the head with facts...rather to encourage and reflect the Grace of GOD.

Mr. Tucker...you've been where I've been and seen what I've seen. Have you not found this to be true?

Peace
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Suzie Trockman
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« Reply #12 on: January 28, 2003, 07:04:29 am »

Ben,

Your post is really interesting.  

Suzie
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Scott McCumber
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« Reply #13 on: January 28, 2003, 07:29:20 am »

I think that the parents of the next generation of Assembly Kids learned a lesson after the mass exodus of the first generation.

Let's back off just a bit. Encourage some more extra-curricular activities at school. A little more lenient on attendance, etc. A kinder, gentler Assembly if you will.

So now many of these kids, especially in the Midwest which seems to have gained some slight autonomy from the ruling synod in Fullerton, can honestly say, "We never saw these horrible abuses! There is nothing wrong with the Assembly. It's just a few people in a few places."

Never realizing the more subtle abuse that has filled their minds and hearts with false doctrine.
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brad
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« Reply #14 on: January 28, 2003, 07:34:05 am »

Scott...

What your saying seems to be true. Pat Matthews just said almost exactly that word for word in a private message to me. Her view of  why her kids were doing so well with LEAVING the Assembly was the families de-emphasizing the Assembly acitivities as "exclusive"...long before they actually left.

Boy...don't remember that being a popular theory in our time...
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