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Author Topic: What were brothers told? And did sisters know?  (Read 15880 times)
moonflower2
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« Reply #15 on: November 14, 2007, 08:29:19 am »

Wow! Everyone is on youtube these days. This looks just like the guy who was excommunicated in 1965 for expressing his love to his wife!
 Grin
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Joanna
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« Reply #16 on: November 14, 2007, 09:43:14 pm »


Maybe you could start a "Go See Youtube" thread. I don't have sound on my computer, so if there is something on this one relevant to husband-wife relationship, let me know.
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moonflower2
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« Reply #17 on: November 14, 2007, 11:43:28 pm »

Maybe you could start a "Go See Youtube" thread. I don't have sound on my computer, so if there is something on this one relevant to husband-wife relationship, let me know.

This is Elvis' version of the lyrics sung by Ray Peterson. A few of the words/line have been changed a little or switched around, but the idea is the same.

Elvis Presley
» The Wonder Of You

When no-one else can understand me
When everything I do is wrong
You give me hope and consolation
You give me strength to carry on
And you're always there to lend a hand
In everything I do
That's the wonder
The wonder of you
And when you smile the world is brighter
You touch my hand and I'm a king
Your kiss to me is worth a fortune
Your love for me is everything
I'll guess I'll never know the reason why
You love me like you do
That's the wonder
The wonder of you
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Flora
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« Reply #18 on: November 15, 2007, 09:21:46 am »

Joanna,

During all the years that I was in the Ottawa Assembly, I was a single sister. In 1985, the Ottawa Assembly came under the direct Geftakys / Zach influence. Prior to that time, I had never heard of “wife training”. In ministry, the husband’s need to love his wife as Christ loved the church was greatly emphasized. The wife’s need to submit was mentioned, but not emphasized. The greater emphasis was definitely on the husband demonstrating self sacrificial love to his wife, loving her to the extent that he would be willing to die for her.

However, after the Ottawa Assembly came under the direct Geftakys / Zach influence, this became reversed. The husband’s need to demonstrate self-sacrificial love was mentioned, but no longer emphasized. Now the greater emphasis became the wife’s need to “obey” her husband. They made the words “submit” and “obey” interchangeable. Although these two words mean different things, in reference to the wife’s response to her husband, the words were presented as meaning the same thing.

To understand the meaning of “wife-training”, you need to understand how the consequence system works in the Assembly. Whether it is child training, the training of brothers or sisters in special training houses, or wife training, the consequence system works the same. A consequence is given to correct an unacceptable attitude or behaviour. The thinking went like this: “I love you too much to let this attitude or behaviour continue. In love, I am going to stand for God’s interests in your life. Since both of us want what is best for your eternal good, I am going to work with you to help you change your attitude or behaviour. So every time I notice that attitude or behaviour, I am going to give you a consequence. Remember, I am doing this because I love you.”

The consequence is repeated each and every time the unacceptable attitude or behaviour is noticed. If the given consequence is not producing the desired results of correcting or changing the unacceptable attitude or behaviour, then the consequence is escalated. The consequence will continue to escalate until the desired results of a changed attitude or behaviour are achieved. In wife training, if the husband deeply loves his wife, the consequence is often tempered with compassion and understanding. However, it is obvious to see how an abusive person could use the consequence system to increasingly become more abusive.

Wives that I talked to didn’t view consequences as an act of demonstration of her husband’s love. Although, a few weeks after the fact, the wives usually had the attitude that it was done for their eternal good, so it was hard love in action.

As a spectator, I viewed “wife training” as demeaning, as I recognized that this reduced the wife’s status to that of an older child. The wife was no longer viewed as an equal partner with her husband. I challenged the teaching of “wife training” and stated that if a wife was to be given consequences for not “obeying” then the husband should also be given consequences for not doing things, as well. I was told that that was for each couple to decide. My challenging attitude was viewed as rebellious, as an unwillingness to be trained in God’s ways, and as not wanting God’s best for my life.

I decided that I would probably never marry; because the one thing worse than being single, was being in an abusive, controlling marriage. I knew myself well enough to know that if I married under these conditions, my marriage would end in divorce.

(A number of years after I left the Assembly, I married a very wonderful, loving man, who was never involved in any of the Assemblies.)

The Assembly system of “wife training” is doomed to failure and to producing friction and stress in the marriage relationship, because it does not allow the husband and wife to be equal partners before God.

God created male and female equal, but different. Both men and women need both love and respect. However, a woman’s greatest need is love hence God’s instruction to the husband is to love his wife “as Christ loved the church”. A man’s greatest need is respect hence God’s instruction to the wife is to respect her husband.

According to Dr. Emerson Eggerichs in his book ‘Love & Respect’, when the husband treats his wife with love, it triggers the response of respect from his wife; and when the wife treats her husband with respect, it triggers a response of love from her husband.

Dr. Eggerichs also explains that the opposite is true. If a husband treats his wife in an unloving way, it triggers an unrespectful response from his wife; and if a wife treats her husband in an unrespectful way, it triggers an unloving response from her husband.

In the Assembly system of “wife training”, the consequences were often viewed as unloving treatment, producing unrespectful response. So the very tool that was supposed to produce respect and submission was actually the very tool that according to God’s design succeeded in producing the opposite result.

I highly recommend Dr. Emerson Eggerichs’ book: ‘Love & Respect’. His web site is www.loveandrespect.com

Lord Bless,
Flora
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