AssemblyBoard
December 02, 2020, 01:52:56 pm *
The board has been closed to new content. It is available as a searchable archive only. This information will remain available indefinitely.

I can be reached at brian@tucker.name

For a repository of informational articles and current information on The Assembly, see http://www.geftakysassembly.com
 
   Home   Search  
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
  Print  
Author Topic: I'm done sticking my neck out.  (Read 26967 times)
editor
Guest
« on: March 01, 2004, 12:32:08 am »

Dear Friends,

Most likely this is the last time I will post anything on the BB, under the current circumstances.

It dawned on me today, that I am taking a huge risk, and putting my family in jeopardy, by maintaining that George is guilty of sexual impropriety.

I have absolutely no way of proving this, as the "women," are unwilling to say anything.  I am now highly suspect as to the truthfullness of the letter the Fullerton leaders wrote to excommunicate George.  It seems to me that they did so in order to take over from their aging teacher.  George has factual evidence to back up his claim that Timothy is an "absalom."

On the other hand,  with the "women" unwilling to say anything, I haven't a leg to stand on, and by being out front in all of this, I am putting my family's future at risk.

God doesn't want me to sacrifice my family for a "cause" that has no merit.  For my own protection I shall remain silent, unless it is to retract things I have said.

Under the current climate, this is the only prudent course of action.  I must think of myself and my family first.  I am going to quietly go away, and pretend that none of this ever happened.

Brent
Logged
delila
Guest


Email
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2004, 12:49:20 am »

I don't know about what GG did.  I only know what I experienced, what was passed down in an abusive system to me.  I only know that this was wrong and that I stand against it.  I know that Rachel's story is true because I experienced the spiritual equivalent where I lived, as did others, in three Canadian assemblies.  That's the truth.  We all want the truth.  Walk away and you say you have no idea that there was abuse and that is a lie and you know it Brent.

ARe you getting sued or something?
delila
Logged
editor
Guest
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2004, 01:05:48 am »

I don't know about what GG did.  I only know what I experienced, what was passed down in an abusive system to me.  I only know that this was wrong and that I stand against it.  I know that Rachel's story is true because I experienced the spiritual equivalent where I lived, as did others, in three Canadian assemblies.  That's the truth.  We all want the truth.  Walk away and you say you have no idea that there was abuse and that is a lie and you know it Brent.

ARe you getting sued or something?
delila

No, I'm not getting sued.  But if I did, I could count on Rachel, Judy, Mark, Kirk, and others to back me up.

However, in the matter of George's adultery, I have no leg to stand on.  I can't count on his vicitims, therefore I am championing a cause I have no business being invovled in.  I should have stopped with David and Judy.

The truth isn't what is important here.  What is important is my comfort level, and the degree of personal trauma that I am willing to subject myself to.  It hurts too much to stand for the truth, if it means being left holding the bag by the only ones who actually know the truth firsthand.

There is no proof that George did anything wrong, other than a short, vague letter.

I am not going to stick my neck out on flimsy hearsay.  I wasn't there, I didn't have sex with George.

Do you get it people?  I am done taking risks in this matter.  It's not my problem.  I just want to heal, and put the pieces back together.  

My house won't stand under the present circumstances, because I have no proof to back up what I have said.  The fact I really do know what happened is meaningless, if those that told me aren't willing to speak again.  

Why should I spend ten minutes on their behalf?

I'm not talking about Rachel......I know I could count one her in a second.  I'm talking about the fact that I published information about George based on facts that have disappeared and can't be brought out again.  

Like Joseph Smiths magic spectacles....you just have to take their word for it that they really are behind the curtain in Utah.  

If you were in my position, would you take this risk?  I kind of went it alone for the most part, and now I realize that in the final analysis I would be left alone and without a leg to stand on.  

Again, this isn't my problem anymore.  

May George's work ever prosper.  Certainly, we don't want to do anything that causes us pain in order to stop it.  I won't twist in the wind as a result of the people I am trying to help being too cowardly to defend me.  This isn't the gospel, and I'm not Paul.  Paul had proof about what he was saying, I have none, the truth notwithstanding.

Brent
Logged
delila
Guest


Email
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2004, 01:07:24 am »

and another thing:

You (Brent) seem to indicate the dissolution, like the building of that abusive GG dynasty to which we belonged, must be top-down operation.  Does it?  I don't think so.  And that Matt fellow on the other bb who claims that somehow there weren't victums has no idea.  None.  What oils and tender care many of the x assembly members have taken to tend to the wounds of those beaten and robbed, no clue of the damage that was done to Kimberly's children.  And I wonder what healing Matt's words do.  I'm involved in healing, listening, caring for those working on their own recovery - a recovery from the abuses of this gg system.  And for this, I am not afraid to stand.  Believe me, or not.
drj
Logged
editor
Guest
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2004, 01:10:31 am »

and another thing:

You (Brent) seem to indicate the dissolution, like the building of that abusive GG dynasty to which we belonged, must be top-down operation.  Does it?  I don't think so.  And that Matt fellow on the other bb who claims that somehow there weren't victums has no idea.  None.  What oils and tender care many of the x assembly members have taken to tend to the wounds of those beaten and robbed, no clue of the damage that was done to Kimberly's children.  And I wonder what healing Matt's words do.  I'm involved in healing, listening, caring for those working on their own recovery - a recovery from the abuses of this gg system.  And for this, I am not afraid to stand.  Believe me, or not.
drj

Matt's words may not have any healing attached to them, but they are true.  Can you prove to him that any of it ever happened?  I can't.

I know names, sure.  But I won't share them.

The only people that can prove anything are those that were there, and they ain't talking, therefore none of it ever really happened, as far as Matt and many others are concerned.  This is not the type of thing we want to take on faith.

Brent
Logged
delila
Guest


Email
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2004, 01:12:42 am »

I don't know about what GG did.  I only know what I experienced, what was passed down in an abusive system to me.  I only know that this was wrong and that I stand against it.  I know that Rachel's story is true because I experienced the spiritual equivalent where I lived, as did others, in three Canadian assemblies.  That's the truth.  We all want the truth.  Walk away and you say you have no idea that there was abuse and that is a lie and you know it Brent.

ARe you getting sued or something?
delila

No, I'm not getting sued.  But if I did, I could count on Rachel, Judy, Mark, Kirk, and others to back me up.

However, in the matter of George's adultery, I have no leg to stand on.  I can't count on his vicitims, therefore I am championing a cause I have no business being invovled in.  I should have stopped with David and Judy.

The truth isn't what is important here.  What is important is my comfort level, and the degree of personal trauma that I am willing to subject myself to.  It hurts too much to stand for the truth, if it means being left holding the bag by the only ones who actually know the truth firsthand.

There is no proof that George did anything wrong, other than a short, vague letter.

I am not going to stick my neck out on flimsy hearsay.  I wasn't there, I didn't have sex with George.

Do you get it people?  I am done taking risks in this matter.  It's not my problem.  I just want to heal, and put the pieces back together.  

My house won't stand under the present circumstances, because I have no proof to back up what I have said.  The fact I really do know what happened is meaningless, if those that told me aren't willing to speak again.  

Why should I spend ten minutes on their behalf?

I'm not talking about Rachel......I know I could count one her in a second.  I'm talking about the fact that I published information about George based on facts that have disappeared and can't be brought out again.  

Like Joseph Smiths magic spectacles....you just have to take their word for it that they really are behind the curtain in Utah.  

If you were in my position, would you take this risk?  I kind of went it alone for the most part, and now I realize that in the final analysis I would be left alone and without a leg to stand on.  

Again, this isn't my problem anymore.  

May George's work ever prosper.  Certainly, we don't want to do anything that causes us pain in order to stop it.  I won't twist in the wind as a result of the people I am trying to help being too cowardly to defend me.  This isn't the gospel, and I'm not Paul.  Paul had proof about what he was saying, I have none, the truth notwithstanding.

Brent

So you aren't our champion.  Christ is.  So shut up about George and his alleged 'lovers'.  I for one think there's a lot more interesting and a lot more important things to talk about, a lot more healing things too.  You don't have to take an oath of silence b/c you're so hurt by those you tried to help.  Thank God Christ didn't.  
delila
Logged
delila
Guest


Email
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2004, 01:17:14 am »

Again:  what is this board all about?  The GG accusation?  No.  So am I getting it wrong when I think you're 'signing off' b/c you can't prove G 'slept with' the women?  Or are you saying that b/c none of the abuse can be 'proven' in any assembly, then we should all keep our mouths shut?  What exactly are you through with, talking about G's trash or the board altogether?
drj
Logged
editor
Guest
« Reply #7 on: March 01, 2004, 02:10:49 am »

Again:  what is this board all about?  The GG accusation?  No.  So am I getting it wrong when I think you're 'signing off' b/c you can't prove G 'slept with' the women?  Or are you saying that b/c none of the abuse can be 'proven' in any assembly, then we should all keep our mouths shut?  What exactly are you through with, talking about G's trash or the board altogether?
drj

Good question.  And one I'll try to answer.

People wonder how groups survive, and keep on ticking, despite being exposed for who and what they are.  The Assembly is one of these groups.  We all know how messed up it was, and we all have an idea of how evil the leader was.

However, it is going to continue, and actually grow, because those who can do something, indeed the ONLY ones that can do something, won't.

Rachel did something, and it was effective.  She had facts, and shared them at great personal expense.  She did it when everyone told her not to, because she knew it was the right thing to do.  David's ministry is over, and will never return, unless George is welcomed back and he makes it so.

Now, people who are still involved (and some that aren't)  are asking the very valid question,  "what proof is there that George did any of this?"

Can you give them any proof?  

"Brent said so," is not proof.

"We heard that the women told the fullerton LB's" isn't proof either.

Here is an example:

Judge:  so, you claim that George is an adulterer?
"bob": Yes

J: what proof do you have?
b:I heard from this guy Brent that it happened.
j: did he tell you who was involved?
b:no

j: do you have any firsthand knowledge that Mr. Geftakys ever did anything wrong?
b: no, but hundreds of his ex-followers believe that he did.

J: Mr. Geftakys, do have anything to say in your defense?
George: yes your honor.  Some of my former followers plotted to remove me, in order that they might bask in what they perceived as the power and prestige that I have.  Chief among these is my son.

J:  do you have any proof of this?
G: yes, your honory.  These false charges about sexual impropriety were brought against me.  My accusers wouldn't even give the names of my imaginary victims.  As you have seen, they aren't able to produce any proof that it ever took place.

Furthermore,  My son is leading what he was able to salvage from my old church.  Clearly this was their design, and this is what they have accomplished.  They have no proof against me, and they have seized control and have gained their objective, based on falsehood and slander.

Judge:  Mr. "bob," can you counter this?
B: uh...what he is saying isn't true.  He's denying everything.  This is a pattern with him.  He was excommunicated by his own followers!
Judge:  On what grounds did they "excommunicate" him?
B: They spoke to some women who were involved.
J: did you speak to them?
B: well, yes, sort of.  I know that they were telling the truth.
J: Are they going to testify?
B: No, they are unwilling at this time.

Judge:  in light of the fact that there is no proof to substantiate the claims made by "bob,"  I find the defendant not guilty.

This parody is exactly what people are using to justify their continuance with the ministry, and their rebuilding of George's ministry.

WE all know George did it.  I am absolutely convinced, and even more so.

However, we can't prove it, because the people who were involved won't say anything.  The leadership can't be trusted, because they excommunicated people falsely in the past.  who's to say that they aren't doing the same thing with George?

A man is innocent until proven guilty, therefore, George is innocent, because there is no proof he is guilty.  He is innocent and will remain so until one of the women comes forward.

Brent
Logged
outdeep
Guest


Email
« Reply #8 on: March 01, 2004, 05:22:50 am »

I know people want to believe that if the adultery victims would come forward, George would finally be pinned to the wall and what is left of his system of churches will disband forever.  I don't think so.

Holding George to account is like nailing Jell-O to the wall.  Even if the sisters came forward, there is always a way he would spin it and there would always be people who would believe him.  Even if all his associates disowned him, he would go down the street to a Bible study in his retirement community and take over.  He believes in his own ministry with all earnestness and he will continue in the power of the energizer bunny as long as the Lord gives him breath.   To assume that those who are supporting George will suddenly disown him if given more evidence is akin to believing that Norman Lear's "People for the American Way" or the ACLU will suddenly start allowing prayer and Bible reading in schools after we produce compelling source documents from the Founding Fathers.


To say that I don't want to spend my time trying to warn everyone about the Assembly and attempting to dissolve what remains is not indicative that I am a wimp.  It is just a pragmatic decision that recognizes that there are far worse threats to the church than the ministry of an aging man and his pitifully few followers (e.g., postmodernism, so-called tolerance, angry, Hollywood-type secularism, attack on the family unit).  Further, there are a great many positive ways one can leave their past and begin to positivly support and be supported by God's church.

In my opinion, the website a year ago was about bringing the Assembly down.  Now, the bulletin board is about helping people get on with their lives, shedding baggage of the past, putting pieces together, and involving themselves in healthy churches and relationships.

If God has stirred your heart differently, then I believe he will bless your efforts.

-Dave
Logged
mithrandir
Guest
« Reply #9 on: March 01, 2004, 06:00:48 am »

So...there are women who have tangible proof of George's sexual immorality, yet they won't talk.  And Brent thinks that they have an irrevocable obligation before the court of Heaven to tell their story.  Since they won't, he has made the drastic posts which we have recently read.  I hate to have to disagree with you, Brent, but that is like lying down on a railroad track, and saying, "I'm going to let this train run over me because Person X over there won't do what I think they should."

Regardless of whether these women come forward or not, there is still plenty of evidence out there to crucify the Assembly system.  There is also the witness of our own experiences with leaders who proved to be worth less than a used drink of water.  Think of the men we allowed to boss us, demean us, hit us in the face.  I'm certainly not done sticking my neck out, and I still intend to warn people to stay away from the Assembly.  If they listen, well and good.  If not, then as Gandalf said, "The burned hand teaches best..."

Clarence Thompson
Logged
Mark Kisla
Guest
« Reply #10 on: March 01, 2004, 06:03:30 am »

If a victim stepped forward and shared their testimony in a forum like this one, (that is not  controlled by the assembly )I believe it would have a tremendous impact on stopping further abuse.
Logged
mithrandir
Guest
« Reply #11 on: March 01, 2004, 06:04:20 am »

One other thing: I am an engineer by profession, and a male by creation.  But I say, let's show these women a little tenderness.  Perhaps for them to come forward would open extremely deep wounds in them.  Why should they have to pay for something that was really forced on them by George?

Clarence Thompson
Logged
Margaret
Guest


Email
« Reply #12 on: March 01, 2004, 06:53:55 am »

I was under the impression that Keith Walker is in possession of statements signed by these women.  We received inquiries from France seriously doubting the allegations.  We directed the person to Keith and Dan Notti, and to the best of our knowledge, satisfactory evidence was produced to convince the most reluctant.
Logged
editor
Guest
« Reply #13 on: March 01, 2004, 07:15:21 am »

I was under the impression that Keith Walker is in possession of statements signed by these women.  We received inquiries from France seriously doubting the allegations.  We directed the person to Keith and Dan Notti, and to the best of our knowledge, satisfactory evidence was produced to convince the most reluctant.

Yes, I know this as well.

However, this evidence isn't available to people who ask the question,  "What women?"  "Did Brent make this all up?"

I am in trouble if pressed.  I can't count on these people to back me up, although they counted on me to tell the truth at one time.  

Silence is the wide open opportunity for George and his followers to say,  "none of it is true.  It can't be proven.  Where are the witnesses?"

This whole thing is not about what is true.  Most of us need no convincing with regard to the truth.  This is all about what can be proven.

George is innocent until proven guilty.  If there are secret documents in the possession of Keith Walker, this proves nothing, as they are secret.

The golden tabletures and magic spectacles reside behind a curtain in some Mormon temple.  No one can see them, so do we have any proof that they really exist?

Don't you see the dilemna?  The truth has no power when we are unwilling to speak it.  

What a shame.

Brent
Logged
Suzie Trockman
Guest
« Reply #14 on: March 01, 2004, 08:26:23 am »


p.s. I trust you are fully aware that this seeming, sudden about-face, whatever your objectives, is going to mess with quite a few heads...?

Yep!  Indeed we are seeing Brent's posts are messing with peoples' heads.  I am glad to see a few "thinkers"though.

Because I am concerned that a number of people are becoming really uncomfortable, confused and maybe even stumbled, I have to offer a few hints, as I live with the man.

Think carefully before you react and assume he has lost his marbles.

Is Brent repenting of saying false things? or is he saying he can't prove what we all know to be true?

Who will tell the truth?

How is silence allowing things to be rebuilt?

Do you agree, that a "man is innocent until proven guilty?" and if so can you help substantiate a single claim that George is guilty of sexual sin?  

Who can and will.

Has Brent flip-flopped or is he merely reporting the facts from another perspective?

Have any of you ever played poker?

Suzie
Logged
Pages: [1] 2 3 4
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!