A Familiar Young Man

[editor]

When Oral Roberts made that claim that God would strike him dead if he did'nt come up with the cash, a columist in STL suggested that Oral not raise that money so when God struck him dead the general public would take Gods statements about "anything" seriously

Sad, funny, and true.  

[jackhutchinson]

Joe,

Thanks for the correction regarding Oral Roberts.  I stand corrected.  Yeah, it does seem a bit odd that a gambling man would run to the aid of a preacher.  It's also odd that God would treat one of His servants in a manner that is similar to the way mafia thugs treat business owners who are behind on their protection 'payments'.

Brent,

You know, that says a lot about the assemblies.  Our leaders were more meddlesome than those of the Watchtower - people we identified as cult leaders.

I feel for them too.  When he first came to my door I turned him away immediately.  Then, after he had been turned away from other doors in my apartment complex, I asked him to come chat with me at my door.  I wanted to see what similarities there were between his group and the assembly so I asked him questions to gleen information from him.  I doubt he gets questions like that often.

Jack

[editor]

Brent,

You know, that says a lot about the assemblies.  Our leaders were more meddlesome than those of the Watchtower - people we identified as cult leaders.

I feel for them too.  When he first came to my door I turned him away immediately.  Then, after he had been turned away from other doors in my apartment complex, I asked him to come chat with me at my door.  I wanted to see what similarities there were between his group and the assembly so I asked him questions to gleen information from him.  I doubt he gets questions like that often.

Jack

Ask him if he knows anything about the house that Watchtower purchased in San Diego many years ago, and registered in the name of David, King of Israel.  They had a date when David was going to return and occupy the house.  Someone else lives in it now, I am sure.

George said the Lord would return in the 1980's.

Interesting stuff.

Brent

[al Hartman]

...it does seem a bit odd that a gambling man would run to the aid of a preacher.  It's also odd that God would treat one of His servants in a manner that is similar to the way mafia thugs treat business owners who are behind on their protection 'payments'.

     Having spent several years in the pentecostal camp (I once even attended a three day seminar at Oral Roberts University), maybe I can shed a little light.  The pentecostal (aka full-gospel or charismatic) mindset is very different from anything the assemblies stood for.

     Pentecostal believers are largely free to do whatever they choose in their personal lives as long as they donate generously.  Even the poor are not exempt, and collection containers often return bearing rings and watches.
     The ultimatum from God was not a threat to Oral Roberts, whose eternal destiny was never in question.  Rather, it was a put-up-or-shut-up message to Roberts' audience at large, "You haven't been faithful in monetary support:  Get it together or I'll take away your prophet from you."  Roberts wasn't worried about it-- he was just passing the message along to the people.

     Why would a race track owner come across with the bread?  This is not uncommon among the pentecostal set, many of whom live by a standard of If-God-is-generous-to-me-I'll-be-generous-to-His-work, while others follow a plan of If-I'm-generous-to-God's-work-maybe-He-won't-strike-me-down.  
     This results in a good deal of financial support coming from questionable sources, but since those donating the money attribute their affluence to God's blessing, there is no challenge to the funds' legitimacy.  The pentecostal concept of holiness is more to do with covering flesh with clothing and the absence of makeup than about the state of the heart or soul.
     Nothing about the O.R. death threat seemed odd to his followers.  It was how they expect God to deal with them.  Sad, but true.

al

[jackhutchinson]

Sounds like a 'sanctified' shakedown

I would love to have been there to tell him "Well, Reverend, I'm broke.  I hope for your sake there are a lot of other eager doners.  Cause if your fate depends on me, you're toast."

Jack

[al Hartman]

 I also  believe the Word of God has the remarkable ability to transcend space-time and speak to us on very many levels: historically, typically, prophetically, and personally! Just my two cents...

p.s remember the old chorus:
Every promise in the Book is mine
Every chapter every verse every line
All the goodness of His love divine
Every promise in the book is mine ?

I know one could mount a formidable theological assault but I think the writer of that was on to something...

     At my age, the past sometimes wavers a bit , but I seem to recall Tom mounting just such an assault many years ago ...

     Nonetheless, point taken.  The key is to
[1] Never limit God:  He may lead us in whatever manner He chooses.
[2] Try the spirits & search the scriptures:  God will NEVER lead in a way contrary to His Word.
[3] Do not depend upon ANY method of God's leading, but only upon The Lord Himself:  The earth and all its fulness are His and He may use them how and when He pleases, but Jesus Christ is The Same yesterday, today and forever; only the changelessness of His Divine Person can be relied upon fully and at all times.

     BTW, Verne, in my opinion the wealth of this BB is composed largely of two cents' worth here & two cents' worth there.  I'd rather have your two cents' worth any day, Brother, than suitcases full of the counterfeit available elsewhere.

God bless,
al

[Mark Kisla]

One Midwest seminar Gary Mau stayed with me and we were sharing amazing ways the Lord had spoken to us. I told him about the  day that the Lord woke me up very early in the morning and my reading that day was in Psalm 21:

The King shall have joy in your strength O Lord
And in Your salvation how greatly shall he rejoice
You have given him his heart's desire.
And have not withheld the request of his lips.

Don't ask my how. I knew that morning beyond the shadow of remotest doubt that a job I had been praying about was a done deal. The date was January 21, 1986.(still marked in my Bible!)
Later that same day confirmation came in the mail that I had been awarded the position and was expected to start in two weeks.

Gary was at the time engaged to Valerie and shared some neat stories about how the Lord had confirmed it.
Gary I miss our great times together my friend. Please give me a call if you can. You and I and Mark Kisla should get together...
Verne
p.s. I got rid of the 440 Road Runner with the Hemi and hood scoop before I committed self-immolation: 140 MPH... yikes! What was I thinking??!!...your car stories used to really bust me up man...
remember the one I told you about blowing the motor mounts off the souped-up fastback '68  mustang??!!   *sigh*   man its great to be alive!!    

Hey Cheesehead Mau, your Packers looked good last week against the Seahawks. Please beat the Eagles in Philly so the Rams (if they can get by Carolina) can play the Packers at the Eddie Jo Dome.
If you're in Chicago this month call, maybe, you Verne and myself can hook-up and get something to eat ,then go to a Chrysler dealer and test drive a Viper.

[summer007]

Just thought I'd mention this so you would all know that the young man I had warned about Assm tactics on campu s called this wekend...Seems he has someone that wants to Discipel him....Said other churches were worldly, asked him if he was really Saved, and just overall left him feeling defeated and depressed...i spoke to him for awhile to get the name of the group and the leaders name he will follow-up with me...He alos thought he was meeting withjust the one "Brother" and a group of three(3) bible thumped him for 3 hours ...This is a Palm Desert Group ...Does anyone know if they have  an Out reach ther or a Bros Hse there??This group lived together ...and meets in a Boys and Girls Club....The main discipler said he was astranged from his family as they think he preaches to them...(or he has'nt seen them in a year something like that) Sound Familar to anyone??? Then later I had a UCLA  student stop by ..very brief hes from the church..Guess I'll be talking to him real soon...(these kids are 18 and 19 years old  same age I was when I met  the Assm folk)....Pray!!!!

[summer007]

I wanted to apologize for the Gross Typos..I posted before I did a Basic check....while  on Id like to add this opened the door to talk to my Daughter alittle more about the Group..and that many have been hurt...when I told her about some of the names.."Struggeling Along, blkslider, and Paranoid " she could'nt believe it ...and really feels bad ...I do too when I read someone is Struggling Along like their legs are broken or something...or paranoid...too scared to speak..Yes I'd like to hear what they have to say...I think one of them spoke -up..I hope the others do too.

[Oscar]

Just thought I'd mention this so you would all know that the young man I had warned about Assm tactics on campu s called this wekend...Seems he has someone that wants to Discipel him....Said other churches were worldly, asked him if he was really Saved, and just overall left him feeling defeated and depressed...i spoke to him for awhile to get the name of the group and the leaders name he will follow-up with me...He alos thought he was meeting withjust the one "Brother" and a group of three(3) bible thumped him for 3 hours ...This is a Palm Desert Group ...Does anyone know if they have  an Out reach ther or a Bros Hse there??This group lived together ...and meets in a Boys and Girls Club....The main discipler said he was astranged from his family as they think he preaches to them...(or he has'nt seen them in a year something like that) Sound Familar to anyone??? Then later I had a UCLA  student stop by ..very brief hes from the church..Guess I'll be talking to him real soon...(these kids are 18 and 19 years old  same age I was when I met  the Assm folk)....Pray!!!!

Summer007,

This sounds like the tactics of a group called the LA Church of Christ.

They are also the "One True Church" and disciple on college campuses.  I have been approached by the ones in Fullerton a couple of times.

They are astounded that people already know what they are all about.

Thomas Maddux

[Peacefulg]

Hi Summer, Tom nailed the group right on the head.  Had a ton of fun with them while leading the campus work at LBCC.   If you look them up they can be found as the International Church of Christ.  Here is the Rick Ross link on them and you can find tons more if you want.  http://www.rickross.com/groups/icc.html

Strange that as strange the assembly was these people were just plain lost and scary.  Praise God I was able to rescue a few from their clutches during the campus work.

Cheers,
G

[summer007]

Thank-You Peacefulg.....Those boys on Campus probibly did'nt know what hit them when you showed up!!!!

[Peacefulg]

Actually it was the women that were the scariest.  I have seen in your other post that you know you are blessed to be a woman, and enjoy the role that God has given for women, but the Church of Christ "sisters" were given a little more authority than say other cultic groups, so they could be a pill to deal with.    

Lord Bless,
G

[summer007]

Frightening Thought...Peacefulg..Just to let you know I pulled down some info. As I was doing so my Daughter waltzed in from Youth Group (BTW--she brought a visitor)I asked he rhad she spoken to her friend, she was getting ready to call him..As she looked at some of the material she said to me Mom this is EVIL is'nt it ..I replied  Yes it is ..is'nt it..hum..not only that there were so many branches nad names of groupss it was utterly confusing to dicipher...BTW..Her Friend had been led to the Lord at the Beach by some Brothers from Compton/Watts area very Godly Men that have assisted in this Matter..Thank-You All Tom Maddux too you were right on target!!!!

[Peacefulg]

Dear brothers from the hood, Praise the Lord, all of my families roots are in Compton, mother and dad grew up and went to school there.  Needless to say I went to a private school (Assemblies of God), so I missed the gangs, drugs, and all that, but did see many die and just have bad lives.  

Good to hear the Lord is faithful to have a witness in the city.  I remember when Clarence and others got a burden for the inner city and we did a number of outreaches to IngleHood.  It was sad that the assembly did not have the "resources" to really reach out to the poor in our own country, and you were dammed to ask them to support ministries that did do it faithfully.

Anyway I am ranting!  Thanks for the information.

Cheers,
G