A Familiar Young Man

[jackhutchinson]

Recently I spoke with a familiar young man (not the one I ran across in the doctor’s office I mentioned on the "Tis the Season" thread).  Listening to him was like going back in time and listening to myself regurgitate the assembly garbage.  He said that we should not forsake the gathering of ourselves together....(he attends several meetings every week).  He told me that he and his friends just want to obey the Bible and practice Christianity just like they did in the first century.   When I asked if he is trying to earn favor with God he said we can’t earn His favor.  He said that there have always been people who truly served God, but that God raised up his ministry in these last days to show the way more perfectly to the whole world.  He said that anyone who sincerely seeks God will eventually agree with his church.  He added that the leaders at the highest level of his ministry have God’s anointing.  He said that his leaders give direction in many areas of life so that people will not mess up their lives like so many in ‘the world’ do.  When I asked him about people that leave his ministry he said that according to his leaders the number one reason people leave is sexual sin.  He really wanted to get together and study the Bible with me.  Since I had already gone that route I told him that while I still believe in Christ as my Savior I do not feel compelled to join him.

I am happy to report I didn’t feel the least bit guilty.

Jack

[editor]

Recently I spoke with a familiar young man (not the one I ran across in the doctor’s office I mentioned on the "Tis the Season" thread).  Listening to him was like going back in time and listening to myself regurgitate the assembly garbage.  He said that we should not forsake the gathering of ourselves together....(he attends several meetings every week).  He told me that he and his friends just want to obey the Bible and practice Christianity just like they did in the first century.   When I asked if he is trying to earn favor with God he said we can’t earn His favor.  He said that there have always been people who truly served God, but that God raised up his ministry in these last days to show the way more perfectly to the whole world.  He said that anyone who sincerely seeks God will eventually agree with his church.  He added that the leaders at the highest level of his ministry have God’s anointing.  He said that his leaders give direction in many areas of life so that people will not mess up their lives like so many in ‘the world’ do.  When I asked him about people that leave his ministry he said that according to his leaders the number one reason people leave is sexual sin.  He really wanted to get together and study the Bible with me.  Since I had already gone that route I told him that while I still believe in Christ as my Savior I do not feel compelled to join him.

I am happy to report I didn’t feel the least bit guilty.

Jack

Which group and where was this young man involved?

There are a couple other groups similar to The Assembly in the Central Ca. Coast, and I am curious as to which one this guy was from.  Of course, you could have talked to him somewhere else....

Brent

[jackhutchinson]

Oh, I failed to mention some important information about the ‘familiar young man’.  He was a Jehovah’s Witness who came to my door on Saturday morning.  So, with the exception of some doctrinal issues, he sounded pretty familiar.  The same claim of exclusive anointing on his ministry, the same loyalty to his leaders and the same hectic meeting schedule.  Actually, he only had meetings on Sundays, Tuesdays, Thursdays and Saturdays.  His Sunday meetings are ONLY in the afternoon.  He has no activities on Mondays, Wednesdays or monthly NOP’s on Fridays.  I guess the Watchtower Society is pretty lax compared to the Assembly.  

[summer007]

Slackers all of them!  LOL .....he,he...Oh  and good thing to know he's a JW....that helps..does he have pre-prayer???

[jackhutchinson]

He mentioned that he spends 10 hours per week serving God, and that was the national average for JW's.  So it looks like GG's workers were not the only one keeping tabs on their own good works for the sake of 'accountability'.  He said the Watchtower organization is organized just like the church was in the first century.

Sounds familiar.

Jack

[Margaret]

The Witnesses also have an extreme top-down authority structure, shun those who leave, and don't celebrate Christmas.  There is an excellent first-person account written by a woman who was raised as a Witness, Visions of Glory: A History and a Memory of Jehovah's Witnesses.  For children, life in the Witnesses and life in the assembly were not that much different.  And they produce the same concept of God.  Amazing and scary.  

The depraved minds of men who create religious cults seem to run in the same channels.  You wonder if, maybe subconsciously, they study and emulate other successful cults.  We know that GG and BG went to Utah on a regular basis before the assembly, supposedly to witness to the Mormons.  Is that where the idea came from to call ourselves "the saints:"  Jon Krakauer, who wrote the book about an ascent to Mt. Everest which was made into a movie, has written a hair-raising book on Mormon Fundamentalism, Under the Banner of Heaven.  They believe in getting a "word from the Lord"!!!  Sound familiar?  "Saints, the Lord showed me this morning that He is going to give us the bluffs in Coyote Hills to build a gathering place."  George actually came bounding into a workers meeting one time and said this.

[d3z]

Re: JW's meeting only Sunday afternoon.

Don't the JW's have their meeting Sunday afternoon so they can go door to door Sunday morning.  It helps them hit more heathen, and those annoying "born-agains" probably won't be home.

[Oscar]

The Witnesses also have an extreme top-down authority structure, shun those who leave, and don't celebrate Christmas.  There is an excellent first-person account written by a woman who was raised as a Witness, Visions of Glory: A History and a Memory of Jehovah's Witnesses.  For children, life in the Witnesses and life in the assembly were not that much different.  And they produce the same concept of God.  Amazing and scary.  

The depraved minds of men who create religious cults seem to run in the same channels.  You wonder if, maybe subconsciously, they study and emulate other successful cults.  We know that GG and BG went to Utah on a regular basis before the assembly, supposedly to witness to the Mormons.  Is that where the idea came from to call ourselves "the saints:"  Jon Krakauer, who wrote the book about an ascent to Mt. Everest which was made into a movie, has written a hair-raising book on Mormon Fundamentalism, Under the Banner of Heaven.  They believe in getting a "word from the Lord"!!!  Sound familiar?  "Saints, the Lord showed me this morning that He is going to give us the bluffs in Coyote Hills to build a gathering place."  George actually came bounding into a workers meeting one time and said this.

I remember that meeting too, Margaret.

He said that God had given him a promise, and read some verse about hills.

The Mormon scheme of things also has levels of salvation, with folks like us inhabiting the earth eternally while the good Mormons achieve godhood and get their own planet, (and harem).


Tom

[Mark Kisla]

We had a ex JW  share his testimony to our sunday school class. His Grandfather and Father were both JWs who moved up in the system and he followed their example, eventually ending up where they print the "Watchtower".(which he said every good JW aspires too) Many of their members never develope their personal talents because of their intense involvement, menial low paying jobs are the norm, but those in leadership were doing just fine financially. Many of his peers had closet drinking problems. The similiarities to the assembly was uncanny, ecspecially the overall appearance of being wholesome and squeaky clean.

[Oscar]

The depraved minds of men who create religious cults seem to run in the same channels. You wonder if, maybe subconsciously, they study and emulate other successful cults  

Or perhaps are energized by the same source..?
These men are nothing but pawns in a larger and cosmic game of chess...they answer to one grandmaster...

 They believe in getting a "word from the Lord"!!!  Sound familiar?  "Saints, the Lord showed me this morning that He is going to give us the bluffs in Coyote Hills to build a gathering place."  George actually came bounding into a workers meeting one time and said this.

Remember the oracle at Delphi? God is not the only one who speaks to men...GG did not know the same "Lord" we do...

...let everyone who names the name of Christ depart from iniquity
2 Timothy 2:19

Pretty clear is it not?  
Verne

Verne,

Sadly, Western Christianity is has many, many people who practice this.  It is part and parcel of the "Deeper Life" teaching that Brent wrote about.

However, this does not of itself brand them as evil.  Edith Schaeffer, in her book , L'ABRI, describes exactly the same type of thing.

They were looking for a house, and were running out of time.  She read the verse from Isaiah about the Lord's house being established on the mountains...checked out a house and "knew" that that was God speaking to her, and bought it.

It worked out fine for them.  However, I still don't believe that this is a valid practice.   The Bible just doesn't teach it.

Tom

[M2]

Verne,

Sadly, Western Christianity is has many, many people who practice this.  It is part and parcel of the "Deeper Life" teaching that Brent wrote about.

However, this does not of itself brand them as evil.  Edith Schaeffer, in her book , L'ABRI, describes exactly the same type of thing.

They were looking for a house, and were running out of time.  She read the verse from Isaiah about the Lord's house being established on the mountains...checked out a house and "knew" that that was God speaking to her, and bought it.

It worked out fine for them.  However, I still don't believe that this is a valid practice.   The Bible just doesn't teach it.

Tom

I was told of a sister who read something about fields in her morning time Bible reading and believed that the Lord was speaking to her about getting a job in a particular location in Ottawa.
And then there was this other sister who, about 2 months ago, heard from the Lord that He was going to remove GG's poison from the stew, even as the poison was removed from the stew that the young prophets had made for Elisha and company.

BTW - Ottawa was not influenced by GG.  

Marcia

[jackhutchinson]

I saw on TV the other night a story about Pat Robertson.  He said that God told him that George Bush will win the election this year.  Oral Roberts claimed a few years ago that God told him He would kill him if he didn't raise a certain amount of money by a certain deadline.  He didn't raise the amount needed, yet God did not strike him dead.......Interesting.

In contrast, Billy Graham, a godly man, has never claimed that God has spoken to him in similar ways (even about non-political issues).

I am not saying that God can't speak to people like that, but I'm a bit skeptical.

Jack

P. S.  I wish I could ask that young JW if his leaders 'help' him keep his schedule like the LB's did ours.

[editor]

I saw on TV the other night a story about Pat Robertson.  He said that God told him that George Bush will win the election this year.  Oral Roberts claimed a few years ago that God told him He would kill him if he didn't raise a certain amount of money by a certain deadline.  He didn't raise the amount needed, yet God did not strike him dead.......Interesting.

In contrast, Billy Graham, a godly man, has never claimed that God has spoken to him in similar ways (even about non-political issues).

I am not saying that God can't speak to people like that, but I'm a bit skeptical.

Jack

P. S.  I wish I could ask that young JW if his leaders 'help' him keep his schedule like the LB's did ours.

I have contact with many JW's, and have had long conversations with several of them over the years.  My conclusion is that,  overall, the JW leadership is less controlling than the Assembly used to be.

The Watchtower organization is far more established, and its members know what is expected of them early on, so the leadership doesn't have to use as much personal coercion to keep the wheels turning.  They still meddle, just not as much as the LB's did in the Assemblies that I am familiar with.  (I have visited a dozen, but know the "ins'n'outs of 8 or so)

Had the Assembly continued,  I think it would have evolved into an organization similiar to Watchtower, or the ICOC.  But God.........heard the cries of his children, and delivered them from bondage!  Praise His Name!

Nevertheless, if you want to totally creep yourself out, read personal accounts from JW's.   I have a heart for these people, because I understand where they are coming from, having lived in the same way for most of my adult life.

Brent

[Joe Sperling]

Jack---

Actually, Oral Roberts did make the monetary amount when a "Dog Race Track" owner came forward and donated around 2 million dollars. I have no idea why a dog race track owner would want to step forward and keep God from killing Oral Roberts, but he did.

As for the JW's---I've studied  much about them--and it truly is amazing how the Assembly follows their "pattern" in many ways. Not in basic theology for the most part(the Assembly never claimed Jesus was Michael the Archangel, etc.)---but in their very legalistic ways, and in their shunning and lack of any concern for those who have departed. The "work" they do is also very strange. I remember once when sitting on a bus bench, watching two JW's actually walk into an abandoned field, walking around in it still holding up their "WatchTower" newspapers. The fact that they were holding them up and putting in their "Alloted time" seemed to be far more important to them than to who heard the actual message.

--Joe

[Mark Kisla]

When Oral Roberts made that claim that God would strike him dead if he did'nt come up with the cash, a columist in STL suggested that Oral not raise that money so when God struck him dead the general public would take Gods statements about "anything" seriously