Betty's "Wisdom"

[d3z]

I was thinking back to my single encounter with Betty (spurned by a dream that involved her serving drinks).

I spoke with her for at most 5 minutes.  I don't even really remember what we talked about, but I remember what she said: "If you really believed it, you would do it."  After saying that, she just walked away.  I carried that attitude through the rest of my experience.  Any time I was having difficulty "overcoming", it just meant that I just wasn't believing hard enough.

I remember at one point coming to the conclusion that I just must not believe in the conditional inheritance, since I wasn't doing all of the assembly things.  I actually figured that since I couldn't convince myself of it, scripturally, that was why I couldn't believe it.  It wasn't until after the assemblies collapsed, that I realized, that perhaps the whole teaching just wasn't true.

But, what about the "If you really believe it, you will do it."  Is there any scriptural justification for a statement like this?  Knowing what little I do about human psychology (I know evil), I don't think this is true at all.  Extreme examples are phobias where the person can be completely convinced logically that something isn't harmful, yet be terrified by it when it happens.  Our minds are just to complicated to boil down to a simple concise statement of truth.

[Joseph Reisinger]

personally, i think there is truth to the statement, "if you really believe it, you will do it".
however, i think that it is really only circular logic.
i would not equate belief with mentally being convinced.  i would say that belief is more like a statement of your opinion - evidenced by what you do.
in other words, being convinced that a chair can hold your weight is not belief in and of itself - like you siad, you can have illogical phobias and such.. but your state of mind, directly before completely resting your whole body in that chair (without doubt of it's ablity to hod you) is belief.  of course, how could you measure whether or not such a person is actually experiencing belief, without them actually sitting in the chair.
in this case, such a statement, while true, is simply stating the obvious.. that there is no evidence that you believe something, until your actions reflect it.

[Joe Sperling]

Thanks. I've always believed I can fly. I've just never tried. I think I'm ready now. I'm headed down to the Capitol Records tower. I'll let you know tomorrow how things went.

--Joe

[Joseph Reisinger]

 if you had believed you could fly, wouldn't you have tried it by now?

also, there is a huge difference between, if you believe it, you can do it.... and if you believe it, you will do it.
this is not some mind over matter crap.  this is an attempt to explain to my own understanding, the word believe.

so... i suppose the language may always work.
if you believe you can fly without aid - you will have believed in something that is untrue.. however, my statement at it's heart would still stand.  obviously - if you believe you can fly, you will fly does not make sense... what i mean is - and probably what betty meant as well - is taht if you believe you can fly, you will attempt to fly.  in otherewords, you will do the process of flying.  whether or not you will die in your attempt depends on the verity of what you believed in.
does this make any sense?

[Joe Sperling]

yE  jose h,

it Make  erfectl   ood sense. ThE doc or  says I
am ver  ucky  ot to ha e kill d m  elf in my at  mpt.
For  ive me  ut i am on y abl  to  se one fin er on my
 eft  and. I k ow n w th t i am un  ble  to fly w thout
s me  ort  of aid. Th a ks f r your p st tho gh.

s nce el  ,   oe

[Joe Sperling]

Joseph---

I apologize. You were making a serious statement and I turned it in a different direction for "laughs". I have a tendency to do that. In fact, I have a tendency to do that a lot. It's part of my nature to want to look for something "funny" in almost anything. If a group of people is talking about the Kennedy Assasination and a conspiracy, I'm the guy who will say I thought it was a suicide.  So, sorry about that--if you want to comment on this further I'll leave the subject alone, or make a "serious" contribution to it.

Thanks,Joe

[sfortescue]

Reason is the slow and tortuous method by which these who do not know the truth discover it. The heart has its own reason which reason does not know.
                                   -- Pascal, Blaise (1623-1662)

Joe,

I think that your response is appropriate.  Just as your scenario illustrates, many people were badly hurt by Betty's manipulative advice.

Do you think that George's own use of the last part of the Pascal quote was partly as an answer to Betty's "wisdom"?

The truth of what Pascal said is most clearly evident in computer programming.  It is much easier to do something than to tell a computer how to do it.  Progress in artificial intelligence has been especially "slow and tortuous".

Sometimes we do better than what we consciously believe.

Isaiah 30:21
And thine ears shall hear a word behind thee, saying, This is the way, walk ye in it, when ye turn to the right hand, and when ye turn to the left.