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Author Topic: A New Start  (Read 27938 times)
Kay
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« on: December 29, 2002, 07:15:28 pm »

Hello All,
This is different for me as a 'sister' to be abe to start a new topic w/o permission. Wowsers! (OK I admit that I ran the idea by my husband 1st Smiley'
I want to encourage other Lodge members that if you choose to leave you won't  be struck down by God's wrath. GOD Loves all His people. He sent HIS SON for everyone. The Lodge  does not have exclusive rights to God's protective care.
I've recently left and there is an emptiness. When the emptiness and even a sense of panic swells, I immediately turn to the Lord and worship HIm, thanking Him for His care and goodness in my life. I'm filledwith His joy and peace.
I realize now the Lodge or any place of fellowship is not what meets my needs. The lodge ppl do not meet my needs. It's the Lord Himself.
I stayed in the Lodge realizing problems but I believed there are problems everywhere. It's when I discovered and confirmed long standing abuse that was tolerated,covered up for years by the Leadership, I couldn't support the Lodge any longer.
I was tired of the responses: 'our Lodge   is autonomous from GG.'  Well, no it isn't. Will it ever be?
And about DG: 'Oh you know that's DG, it's been dealt with, so what's your problem?'  The problem is that DG has never been effectively dealt with.  His family and other ppl have suffered and some are shattered.
And I don't think it has been healthy for DG to be allowed to continue in his abusive manner.
It seems to me if ppl really loved DG more than themselves, they would have found a way to help him stop what he was doing to himself and others.
Consider this: if any lodges have sent $$ to the home base, that $$ has gone to support this long standing abuse.
These thoughts are prayerfully submitted for consideration.
My involvement in the Lodge was by faith as was leaving.I have no regrets or bitterness.
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Mark C.
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« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2002, 09:08:45 pm »

Hi Teresa,
  What you shared was very encourging and I'm sure it will be helpful to others.
   You raise some very important issues for those still in the group and their desire to stick with the group and help it change.
   Trying to change the group from within is impossible, because the changes made by leadership are for damage control and the fundamental issues are never faced.
   The fundamental issues are years of deceitful dealings that must be confessed and repented of, instead of denials and obfuscation.
    The Lord is sufficient and will help You, Bob, and Emily in your life with him Smiley                 God Bless,  Mark
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hopeful
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« Reply #2 on: December 30, 2002, 12:48:41 am »

I have two questions.  One, why hasn't David been arrested?  And two, Bob and Teresa - if your whole assembly left fellowship would you feel safe to come back?
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sue xander
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« Reply #3 on: December 30, 2002, 01:27:42 am »

I agree with hopeful on question #1....Why isn't David Geftakys in jail?  That is a great question!

But #2  Why would anyone want to go back if there was nothing to go back too.....moreover what is there to go back to now?  Hypocrisy? Dictatorship?  Lies? Deceit?  And define safe.   My dictionary defines it as : dependable, or trustworthy.   The assembly has lost its trustworthiness.  You lose trust when you have been lied to.  Why would you go there when God has many places that He is!  The Assembly is NOT the only place.  As a matter of fact, its not a place to go at all if you want to find a healthy growing place where you can grow as a Christian, or where you feel accepted, or loved.
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Bob Sturnfield
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« Reply #4 on: December 30, 2002, 02:01:08 am »

First I want to say that we deeply love our brethren in Chicago.  Both Teresa and I were 18 years old when we each first came out, so they are closer than our natural families.

I also still believe that the leadership in Chicago is sincere and deeply loves the flock.

As for going back . . .

I do not know that I have enough perspective yet.  It has been less than a week since I first read this BB.  I am still sorting out what I believe, but this is my current perspective:

I remember DG once turning red with anger and yelling at me (he did not raise his voice, but it WAS his form of yelling) "Your problem is that your parents did not spank you enough, I need to get myself a whip, my dad use to beat me senseless"

When I read one of the articles on abuse the light suddenly flicked on that DG was the product of an abusive home, that abusers tend to produce abusers, that people that come out of abusive situations tend to seek another abusive situation (it is home), that most of the "Saints" come out of drugs or other abusive situations and have suddenly found an abusive situation that they can feel good about.  That the abused move up into leadership and become abusers.....

[LD--Assembly Doctrine] You say you have power, I will show you the power of the Holy Spirit, see this picture of the Saints, this one was a Hell's Angel, this one was a prostitute, this one was a drug dealer.....

No, it is not "malicious", in the abusers' mind if no one saw it, it did not happen. [LD] Man looks on the outward appearance ... and remember that!

The outward appearance becomes everything. [LD] The way of the cross, the flags, the selfers' prayer, the hectic schedule that does not leave time for "the flesh"

Instead of the cross being just the beginning, a school master to lead us to Christ (to lead us to the joy of resurrection life), it becomes the end, a place of bondage (just like home to the abused). A way to control the outward appearance.  If no one sees it, it did not happen.

The problem is, most men tend to focus on the logic of one part, women are more likely to see the broader picture [LD] the woman is deceived.  She is to keep silence (doesn't that sound like the standard code of silence in abusive homes?)

[LD] And now for my final point (very loud praise the Lord), I have 7 sub-points (collective sigh)

You know despite all the calls to "take a stand", stop supporting an abusive situation. . .

And despite all the reasons I gave for leaving. . .

The real break thru came after saying [LD] "I have never done things based on other people's expectation"....

 I asked my wife, "you never do things because it is expected of you, do you?"  She said, "I have always felt guilty and pressured into doing things"

We talked for a while and I realized that her view was that Emily was being treated badly and that women in the Assemblies are always treated badly.

That is when I realized it would not be enough for the Assembly in Chicago to break away from Fullerton, rather [LD] "as a good shepherd I need to find a place where my wife and children can flourish"

   With much love,
   Bob S.
   Bob@Sturnfield.com
« Last Edit: January 24, 2003, 12:21:31 pm by Bob Sturnfield » Logged
Kay
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« Reply #5 on: December 30, 2002, 04:26:37 am »

Dear Hopeful,

If you read Rachel's account,you'll understand why David wasn't arrested at that time. To arrest an abuser, the abused have to file a law suit against them. in this case it would be DG family. If you read about abused spouses and chldren, you'll receive greater insight into these issues and the horrors they face.

I love the ppl in the Lodge that I left. I want the very best for them. I haven't stayed in the Lodge for 28 years because of the ppl. I stayed because that's where the Lord had directed me in 1973. When I saw I could not longer support the leadership, I knew I was 'called out.' of that group. In scripture the lodge is soundly based. In practice of scripture, it is not.

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Margaret
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« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2006, 10:51:48 am »

The West LA Assembly announced recently they are again welcoming George--an appalling development. Previous posts on this thread are insightful.
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vernecarty
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« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2006, 03:47:31 pm »

The West LA Assembly announced recently they are again welcoming George--an appalling development. Previous posts on this thread are insightful.

This should bring us to an understanding of the frightful condition of George Geftakys today as well as an appreciation of the most deadly feature of his influence in the assemblies. The severest curse of God on man is withholding the gift of repentance...
Verne

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outdeep
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« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2006, 06:53:13 pm »

The West LA Assembly announced recently they are again welcoming George--an appalling development. Previous posts on this thread are insightful.
That's a shame.  Has anyone heard from anyone in LA as to the rational?  Do they feel George repented from his affinity for immoral relationships with young sisters?  Do they somehow think one can be a spiritual leader not long after committing such a sin?  Or do they just assume that it never happened? 

Even if George repented (which I somehow doubt), restoration of this type is a long process and I doubt if one should ever be restored to the position that the LA church is giving George.
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Margaret
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« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2006, 09:32:35 pm »

My understanding is that because there were no witnesses, the allegations of the women should not be given credence.
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outdeep
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« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2006, 09:40:04 pm »

Ridiculous!  (Not you, but the LA Church).  Several young women from different periods who, without collaboration, come forth with the similar stories are very credible witnesses.  Are they thinking that a brother would be sitting on the bench next to George recording the poetry he is whispering into her ears?

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Oscar
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« Reply #11 on: February 02, 2006, 12:09:04 am »

My understanding is that because there were no witnesses, the allegations of the women should not be given credence.

Pathetic!

That means that the only way anyone could be held responsible for fornication/adultery is if they did it publicly!    Shocked  Cheesy

Self-serving ignorance on steroids.

Thomas Maddux
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M2
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« Reply #12 on: February 02, 2006, 12:41:59 am »

That's a shame.  Has anyone heard from anyone in LA as to the rational?  Do they feel George repented from his affinity for immoral relationships with young sisters?  Do they somehow think one can be a spiritual leader not long after committing such a sin?  Or do they just assume that it never happened? 

Even if George repented (which I somehow doubt), restoration of this type is a long process and I doubt if one should ever be restored to the position that the LA church is giving George.

It could be because GG is not being exclusive, they have decided to forgive and forget. Huh Roll Eyes

Marcia
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outdeep
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« Reply #13 on: February 02, 2006, 01:38:58 am »

It could be because GG is not being exclusive, they have decided to forgive and forget. Huh Roll Eyes

Marcia
I'm not sure what you mean.  Sorry.  Assemblies that receive George tend to be more exclusive, not less.  I think the issue is that George is clearly walking in sin, denying it, and the LA church is turning a blind eye.  Surely, you are not trying to relate this to the question of whether or not TMorrison can visit some old friends in Chicago with whom there is no overt sin issue.
« Last Edit: February 02, 2006, 02:04:43 am by Dave Sable » Logged
Margaret
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« Reply #14 on: February 02, 2006, 02:58:01 am »

I think it could possibly be helpful if someone wrote a clear, well-reasoned, scriptural, objective, unemotional and brief appeal about why it is unwise and possibly unsafe (especially for parents of teens and especiallly daughters) to receive GG as a spiritual teacher and role model. GG's male enablers no doubt won't hear it, but the wives, mothers and single women might.
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