AssemblyBoard

hey everyone, check this out!

http://www.geftakyslodge.com/h&p_of_dan.htm (http://www.geftakyslodge.com/h&p_of_dan.htm)

Brent

I have tried to lift France out of the mud.
But she will return to her errors and vomitings.
I cannot prevent the French from being French.
...Charles de Gaulle


Looks like the same thing applies to George Geftakys.

I tried to log on but it wouldn't let me...It said the site was down.  I was half looking forward to hearing that Greek Jack Ass preach....

If you double click on the url on Brent's post, it opens up the page.

Marcia

 Honestly to hear GGs voice again gives me the creeps.
 I recently pulled out from storage a wide margin bible that I filled up with notes from the assembly days. I read through my notes and could seperate what I got from GG teaching from what I learned. I also found a letter I got from GG in 1983, it was full of lofty terminology and  a stern reminder to "give my all",
I threw the letter out but what to do with the Bible was tough. I don't want my kids to pick up my old Bible and read notes from Geftakys thinking that they're reading notes of what I learned from God. I buried the geftakys tainted bible in our garden.

Interesting!  He did not quote his sources!  He also got the pronunciation wrong of Leonidas, the leader of the 300 Spartans that sacrificed themselves at Thermopylae.  The proper pronunciation is "Lee-on-nee-dahs" not "Lee-on-nigh-da."  You could tell by how he paused that he probably knew he screwed it up.  Was George not from a Greek?   ;D

It is interesting to listen to him again.  He clearly looked down on those he preached to by all of his little comments.  "I'll go slow, fairly slow, and you can just catch it, friends... Listen now..." He was not very focused at the beginning UNTIL he started cribbing from Lang's book.  And even then he got a verse wrong (he corrected himself later) and stumbled over a few pronunciations.

And we had to listen to this guy on Sunday afternoon?   :P   No wonder so many people fell asleep!

Ottawa was more indoctrinated with GGs ministry than most other assemblies. As Will said, we had to listen to this guy on Sunday afternoon - tape ministry instead of live-in-the-body ministry(most of the time). Most other assemblies had tape ministry on Saturday mornings, which was sparsely attended. But then, by Will's own confession, most people fell asleep, so maybe we didn't assimilate that much of GGs ministry anyway. :)

Lord bless,
Marcia

Hi Will, long time no read.   :)

Several things about George:
He used a bible that had blank facing pages, in order to write out his notes, and conceivably to plagiarize whole sections of other people's books, including chapter titles.

He can't speak Greek, never could speak Greek, and can't pronounce Greek.  I have a receptionist who graduated from BIOLA, with the same degree that George has.  It took her 4 years, while George needed just over six.  They have the same level of training in Greek, so it's what you learn after you know it all that really counts.  George never knew it all....he never even knew part of it.....

There weren't a million in Xerxes army, like George said, there were 100,000.  George taught everyone that he was a Spartan....as if he knew!  I remember hearing him tell stories in early 1999, about how he took a ferry boat to some Island in Greece and he bragged about how he was a "Greek Argonaut."  I had to laugh, because riding the bus does not make me a Formula One of NASCAR driver.

In short, George was full of hot air.   Those of us who think we learned a lot about the Bible from him should re-examine almost everything.  He could have plagiarized imcorrectly, in which case we would be doubly mistaught!!


He is a fraud.  A total, complete fraud.  But God used him to raise up a glorious testimony???

Brent

Famous quote: Catch as catch can
But then baseball is the national sport of the US, isn't it? ;D

Marcia

There should be more recordings of George available on the internet.  I remember asking Kirk Cesaretti, who was in charge of the tape ministry in SLO when I lived in his brothers house years ago, if I could sleep in instead of attending the tape ministry.  He said no.  So I asked him why.  He said that I needed to listen to the tapes.  So I asked him if I could obtain a copy of the tape and listen to it later.  He said no.  I asked him why. He said that George didn't like copies of his tapes floating around.  So I had to ask him why.  He said that there had been an incident or two of somebody preparing for their Sunday preaching by copying off of George's tapes.  So I told him that I'm not the type that has such tendencies. Then I asked him if I could get a copy of the tape, listen to it once, then destroy it, like in Mission Impossible.  Well, I learned that it was impossible to get a copy of George's tapes so that I could sleep in a little on a Saturday morning.  Well, the leading brother eventually showed mercy by rescinding the requirement to sit through tape ministry and I remain grateful.  So these days, it would be nice, out of principle, for as many of George's tapes as possible to be available on the internet.  Why?  Simply because it would drive him nuts, as he well deserves.  Looks like the real reason why he didn't want copies of his stupid tapes available was because it would present an opportunity for people to critically analyze and further expose his lies other negative features as this string has.

Kirk was another example of a very intelligent and hard working person fresh out of college who was used by George like a Stanley power tool to advance his cult.  Sure is nice to hear that he got out a while back.

The reason I was told that such a guard was kept on tapes (could check out Sunday, but MUST give them back, seminars required approval) was to prevent those who would twist George's words to attack the ministry.

What a surprise when I left and discovered that with most preachers you could purchase any tape of any sermon for a minimal cost.  Talk about accountability.

There was only one tape I had wished I had snuck out of there.  About the time Steve Irons left, the leading brothers were working overtime doing damage control.  Every message George gave in the book of Judges somehow took on the theme of "elders who abandon the flock".  Dan Notti gave ministry about us being a family and likened leaving to a divorse (though no one ever explained to me early on that by attending the meetings, I was, in fact, getting married).

But Mark Miller's was the most blatant.  At the time of Steve's leaving, there was a "crack in the wall of testimony".    However, instead of the enemy rushing in like a flood, the people inside were rushing to escape.  More people felt empowered to leave than at any other time in the previous history of the Assembly.  

Mark Miller gave a Sunday morning message on the "Scriptural basis of leaving fellowship".  He basically said that you could leave if:
1.  You were moving to where another Assembly is (like folks going to the new work in Providence).
2.  You were sent out to start a new work like Marcos in Mexico.
If there was a third reason, I don't remember, but it still basically meant staying involved with the Assemblies.

He then moved to the clincher.  He said that any other manner of leaving was causing division - which is the root word for heritic.  What do we do with heritics?  We mark them and avoid them.  

Even though this was believed for years, I had never before heard it stated so blatenly in public (generally such damaging teachings were passed through implication, Old Testament spiritualization, or oral tradition in unrecorded, private meetings).

I was so torn up over that ministry (and all the things surrounding the treatment of Steve and Lee), I couldn't get myself to go back for Sunday afternoon ministry.  I figured I would do something more edifying like go to the movies.  Instead, I dropped in for the first time on Tom Maddux.  He saw me standing on his doorstoop, gave a look like "well, here's another one", and invited me in.  But, that's another story.

I had always wished I had smuggled that Mark Miller tape out before I left and published it back in 1990.

However, not any more.  The good news, I believe, is that the difficult exit process and exclusiveness has all but vanished in the thinking of the vast majority of folks in the Assembly.   That, friends, is simply amazing when you consider how deeply entrenched this type of thinking was in the earlier (and probably later) days.

Dave,

I found your article on 'Healthy Assembly After Life' posted on GA.com very helpful. I emailed it to a number of people who have recently left the assembly system.


Has this 'exclusiveness' truly vanished?

I was told that in Ottawa they were still praying for some who had left that they would go back to the assembly.
I was told that the saints being dispersed was a result of the enemy getting a foothold.
I was also told that God could use the dispersion of the saints to spread the vision (pronounced division :)).

With their mouths they say that they are not exclusive. In their hearts they sincerely desire not to be exclusive. BUT old habits do not die easily. Of course, this is not a blanket statement of all existing assemblies.

Lord bless,
Marcia

I have lots of tapes, and know where to get more.  Perhaps you be able to hear them soon.   Praise his (George's) name!  The vision will go forth!

Brent

The departure of Steve Irons from Fullerton was one of the most remarkable chapters in the assembly saga. For those who knew the man, the fact that they were willing to accept the slander, defamation, and derogation of this individual and his family after they left speaks incredible volumes. I was not even living in Fullerton and had met Steve Irons only once or twice, but when I heard some of the ridiculous accusations levelled against him I wasn't buying any of it. It sounded way too much like a hatchet job to me. The witchcraft allegations against Margaret were indicative of the level of desperate and borderline maniacal frenzy to absolutely tar Steve and his family. Every single one of those leading brothers particpated in unspeakably malevolent conduct in the treatment of the Irons family. Make no mistake about it.
We now have the luxury of concluding it was God's faithfulness and love for Steve and his family that resulted in His soverign removal of them of out that slime pit. That much is clear. Those men are nontheless guilty for their complicity with George Geftakys.  
The thing I don't understand is what was going on in the minds of all those people who had observed Steve's life and example all those years, and then allowed the Godless disparagement of this man on the part of spiritual thugs like George Geftakys Dan Notti and Mark Miller.
 They knew the man! Yet no one spoke up in his defense!!

It shows the density of the fog these people existed in. And so now they want to continue meeting...to what end?
All of you who serve as stewards in the sanctuary I want to ask you a question. What price your loyalty? I want to repeat it as often and as loudly as is necessary. What happend in the assemblies would never have happend in a gathering of faithful men.
The incontrovertible fact is that Fullerton leadership sold out the Lord Jesus Christ. They must repent.
Verne
Verne

Marcia:  You are right.  I guess I got over excited because so many folks I know were truly repentant and changed their thinking.  However, I did hear a story recently of someone who wanted to visit Annendale and was met with suspicious questioning from Steve Taylor.  He decided not to bother.  So, I am sure there are some where old habits just won't die.

Brent:  It would bring back glorious memories of long meetings on metal chairs to hear what the Lord Georges Christ received from the kitchen of heaven.

Verne:  I missed the announcement of the strategically read letters when Steve departed.  The following Sunday, Dan Notti personally wanted to read the Lee's excommunication letter to me.  (I was a doorkeeper and worked with Steve Irons so they were trying to save me from being "poisoned" though I already was).   When it came to the part about Lee's "sexual immorality", I asked him what that was.

He replied, "Oh, we can't discuss that."

I know what it was and it is completely unsubstantial (lets just say that if they upheld the standard consistantly, we would all be excommunicated).  Dan knew this, too.

Dave I know of enough specific instances of matters like the one you cite to have concluded that anyone arguing that the leadership was somehow duped into sanctioning George's ungdoly behaviour must be smoking peyote...these men had completely lost sight of the God with whom we have to do...completely!!
Verne

I'm sure that the Wiesers and the F---s  and the ?? and the G---s would love to have this family visit VA. He called the wrong person.

Lord bless,
Marcia

I'm glad you have some tapes, as you can get some of your money back by selling them on Ebay.  You might consider erasing them in order to get higher bids.

Try playing them backwards. On one of them, I've forgotten which one, you can make out a voice saying "you want to massage my feet, you want to massage my feet" or something close to that.

That's odd.  I was playing my CD with the song "Stairway to Heaven" backwards last night and I kept hearing a low voice saying "Are you with me friends?  Are you with me friends?"

Also on the tapes what we were certain were "Run with me Heavenly foot-men" strangely becomes rendered "To-hell-with me foot-men!... ???
Verne

"You see friends, I didn't grow up in a Christian home!  It was all nightclubs and dancehalls."   "My father would always say, "George, all those meetings!  You always go to a meeting,' and I'd say...I'd say this back to him.....heheh....But Papa!  The Lord's There!"

The tapes are going to go to a person who will be able to figure out who George was plagiarizing and when.  I don't have the energy, nor the desire to listen to them, but I might listen to a father's meeting taught by Betty, and I want to hear one by Dan Notti.

Brent

Personally, listening to Dan Notti would trigger my gag reflex.  I remember him as one of the foremost apostles of George and Betty, always giving seminars and workshops on the Geftakys version of "the exchanged life."  Yet he was always such a sour, glum person - what did he know about the exchanged life?  Dan, talk is cheap.  Show me the money!  In his relationships with the sheep, this "shepherd" used to shower his attention on  those who could stroke his ego and make him feel good - while shredding those who were not useful to him.  And I was one who was not useful to him.  For instance, I remember him getting into a shouting match with me over George's opposition to interracial marriage (oddly enough, George and Betty only seemed to have a major problem if black saints wanted to marry saints who were not black.)  Dan's oft-repeated line to me was something like, "You're not in submission to God, brother!"  I remember Dan telling me once that black people had a problem accepting their identity in Christ, because we were always doing things in an attempt to better ourselves - like my getting an engineering degree.  Perhaps he was jealous because he wasn't able to become an engineer!  I remember seeing him effusively gushing over certain favorites of his who came to him for prayer and counsel after meetings, knowing that if I tried to talk to him, he would shred me.  And believe me, racism wasn't the only problem Dan had.  There are other saints in Fullerton who were turned off by him - by his sarcasm, abrasiveness, laziness, and self-preoccupation.  Dan Notti was one reason I came to the conclusion over a year before George's exposure that the leading brethren in Fullerton were useless and irrelevant.  But if anyone has a tape of Dan Notti teaching anything, I might actually want a copy.  I might just take that tape and smash it!  I would ordinarily sign off as mithrandir (tongue-in-cheek, of course), but I'll use my real name here.  And if any of this gets back to that useless poser Dan (and I hope it does), he can feel free to discuss it all, and more besides, with me right out in the open.  What a travesty he is!  He is the perfect embodiment of a Geftakysservant - a whipped dog, an idolatrous emasculated man looking to a father figure for emotional validation, heedless of the Lord's own words when He said, "Call no man on earth your father, for One is your Father and you are all brethren..."

Clarence Thompson

P.S. While the leaders were all weeping and apologizing in January for their part in the sins of George, Dan admitted to no wrongdoing.  Instead, he tried to paint himself as a wounded innocent.  Then he slunk off into obscurity with his tail between his legs.  

Clarence,

This is sad. I did not realize that racism was such an issue for GG and BG et al. I looked at the way thing 'appeared'. The reality was different. I do remember BG making a comment in my hearing, but I took it as a psychological observation. For the most part, the leading brothers enforced Geftakysism faithfully. I cringed everytime I heard HEB 13:17 "Obey your leaders, and submit to them; for they keep watch over your souls, as those who will give an account. Let them do this with joy and not with grief, for this would be unprofitable for you." mentioned in ministry, because I knew the abuses that would be justified as a result.

PTL that we are free from that bondage.

Lord bless,
Marcia

I don't doubt that members of the Geftakys family have made racist remarks, but in Goleta there have been 2 mixed marriages (both were between a white man and a black woman).  I even taped one of them.  I doubt they would have taken place had George been opposed to the idea.

Jack

I have recordings of most of the itenerate ministry that happened here in San Diego.  A lot is uncategorized (just date), and I don't really want to listen to it.

I few are labeled as "Br. George", "Wes", "Tim McCarthy".

And, I just found one of Dan Notti, looks like near the end of 1999.

These are all in mp3 format, archived away on a couple of CDs.  I've never deleted a single message that made it into my computer.

Most of it is just mundane local preaching.

Dave

They both had a problem in this area. Betty's was far more serious. George's racism was based on a rather classic paternalistic view of African-Americans that has plagued so many men in Christian ministry, many of whom, by all appearances were Godly men (George excepted of course.) One such remarkable example was Andrew Murray of South Africa.
Betty' s racism was virulent and based on a an actual contempt for people of color, particularly those of African-American ancestry.
If opposition to a bi-racial relationship would prove too costly to George in terms of his image, he of course would not object.  Good examples were Perry and Elaine Minamide and Earl and Karen Sommerville.
Betty on the other hand, actively threatened any sister who would even so much as hint an interest in anyone of the wrong color. The instances you cite Jack are very much the exception. The gender of the individuals could have made a difference. This is certainly one of the dark, dirty seccrets of assembly unspoken philosophy. Believe it.
Verne
p.s. Does anyone remember the sister from South Africa,  Kathy Gloeckler that George once described as being a sister of "pure gold"? Well, she had the audacity to fall in love with an African, and the integrity and stature to tell George to take a long walk on a short pier when he raised purely racist objections to the relationship. He thought it would be bad for the "work". I think he actually resented the competition for Kathy's affection (now happily married!). Unless you were blind as a bat it had to evident to all of you this was the unspoken disposition of this "ministry". Of course there were any number of workers who received this kind of instruction more explicitly and rather than take a stand for truth and righteousness, simply acquiesced like the despicable puppets so many of them were. Don't get me started...

p.p.s Why is it that some of you  our white bretheren appear to be so obtuse when it comes to this matter of blatant racism in the church of Jesus Christ? I am more than a little surprised that Clarence is the only witness to publicly state what I have always known about Dan Notti and that is that he was nothing but a common thug and a lout. Didn't any of the rest of you know this cretin?
I am afraid the more closely this posse is examined and the truth of all they stood for start to be fully disclosed, the more difficult it will be to argue against the contention that all that was produced by George and his henchmen was never ever a work of the Spirit of God but rather a veritable spawn of hell itself. Difficult to take is is not? Get used to it...I could tell you a few dark and dirty secrets about this punk, Dan Notti...for those of you in the Black community, think "yellow"...ironic, isn't it?

Have you heard of a double standard? Well I discovered that if it furthered the cause (boosted the image of the system) then exceptions were/are made. I suspect that these marriages occurred in the last 5 years (I know at least one of them did).

Lord bless,
Marcia

The G's did make exceptions when it suited their purpose.  In fact, those two marriages gave me the distinct impression that we as a ministry were NOT racist.  Perhaps generating that false impression was the reason for those exceptions.  It may have been good PR to allow them.  You also make a good point about the genders, Verne.

I remember in 1985 David G made some racist comments, and to my shame I did not challenge him.  At the time I saw it as just another weird thing that David said.  It was another one of those 'puzzle pieces' that I just stuffed in my pocket.  Now I see the picture more clearly.  These guys told us that 2 + 2 = 5, and we swallowed it.

Perhaps the reason we white brethren are so blind is that we were not the objects of their racism, so the issue was not staring us in the face.  David's was the only racist remark I personally heard.  I never would have known about Dan Notti had you not mentioned him.

Jack

We are straying off the topic here, and perhaps we should consider a new thread.   Nevertheless, I have something to add to our discusion about racism.

3 or 4 years ago, when I heard the first accusation of the Assembly being racist, (rickross article) I didn't believe it.  I thought to myself,  "Great, all this good information, and then someone pops off with a ridiculous comment like this!  It will just give them something to point at and call everything else a lie."

Then, over the last year, every single black person I spoke with all told me about the racism they faced in the Assembly.  While in the group, I was definitely taught that it was "unwise," for me to marry a person of color, because mixed marriages made missionary work difficult, if not impossible.  People were "stongly encouraged," to marry within their own race.  

I was present at a Sunday lunch, with David Geftakys, when he put the Kabash on Clarence, who was interested in a white sister.  Of course David didn't say it was for racial reasons,  but because the sister was in "the work," and Clarence was not.  

As a white male, I didn't experience any racism, but I cannot deny the fact that every single black person I have talked to relates unequivocly that racism existed.  

I would like to think of myself as color blind in this area, but I must confess it is not something I have given much thought or attention to.  I grew up partly in Hawaii, where I was a minority, among Asians.  I am certainly not the least bit biased towards Asians, and would like to think that I am not towards blacks, although a saint did tell me once that I uttered a racial comment.  I don't remember it, but I feel terrible about it.

Anyways,  if every single person of color has the same story to tell, perhaps we should give it some creedence.

Back to plagiarism now....

Brent

Yes, let's get back to plagarism.  I don't know what got into me...the name "Dan Notti" triggered a flashback.  As Shawn Colvin sang, "I was angry back then, and you know, I still am...I have lost too much sleep, and I'm gonna find it."

But before we leave the subject of the unrighteousness of these so called shepherds, let me just say that racism was by no means the only sin they were guilty of.  I don't get angry at 5 year old kids for not being able to practice medicine, though I would get very angry at a man who posed as a doctor and didn't know what on earth he was doing.  And these "leading bretheren" who called themselves shepherds were almost all useless posers - indeed, worse than useless!

Okay now, back to my normal easygoing self...

mithrandir

Some of this "counseling" against interracial marriage made it all the way out here to the east coast years ago when a (dating) couple from the local campus started visiting the assembly here.
Thankfully, the couple chose to reject that counsel, & stopped coming to assembly meetings.  They have been married for many years now.  The last time I talked to them, they were involved in inner-city ministry in the midwest, and raising their 4 kids.
BW

Do forgive that flame that burns. I generally try to steer clear of the topic as I have a short fuse on it when it comes to my brothers and sisters in Christ- I expect better.
Brent and Jack I appreciate your sensitivity on the matter.
Coming from the West Indies gives me a bit more cultural immunity from the ugliness of American bigoty but it nevertheless really gets my goat...now back to the topic at hand...!
Verne

I can confirm that Tim G also had the same opinion.  Tim has stated that interracial marriage is acceptable if the races are "close" to each other, and that blacks are too different from other races >:( so that marriage between them and other races is not acceptable.  I assume that he got his beliefs from Daddy Geftakys.  Imagine, Tim G being the judge of what is acceptable. :P

I also got a healthy dose of the Assembly racism...I remember a brother referring to me as a "nigger", and when I went to a leading brother about it, the leading brother told me that Christ was called worse names than that, and to stop being to sensitive.

I remember a time when Betty stayed in the training home I lived in, and how she told the head steward that Black people were lazy.  Little did she know that I could hear her (I was in another room).

I have plenty more stories where those came from... >:(

We may indeed need another thread on this as it apparently is a little known (or at least little discussed facet of assembly life). The only time I ever disagreed with my dear friend and colleague Dr Steven Mbuvi (now with the Lord) was when he allowed himself to be persuaded to join the ranks of leaders associated with Geftakys. I remember warning him that those in leadership in that minisry thought his children were inferior to theirs (evidence to the contrary notwithstanding. Think about it folks. Consider the racist and vicious statements made by these people Tim, David, Betty, Dan et al and their encouraging others to be of the same sinful disposition...
Verne

There are many interesting subjects brought up here that I will comment on.  My tone is intended to be jovial.  To tell you the truth, I bear no ill will for anyone who had anything to do with the Assembly and that includes GG.  I did not notice any racism in the Assembly I attended.  On the contrary, our Assembly was quite multi-racial.  

I realize that this BB is a means to exorcise one’s demons so I do not begrudge people communicating their anger.  However, what you are about to read is intended to be funny.  

Now regarding the tapes of George...  While I was doing my weekly stewardship, I was given permission to borrow the sermons that GG had preached when he came to town.  (Yes, I was a sucker for punishment.)  One of the many nails that convinced me it was time to put distance between myself and the Assembly was a sermon GG preached in the early 80s where he very clearly stated that the world would end very soon, before the end of the 80s.  Hal Lindsey type of stuff.  His preaching was very enthusiastic and animated; it didn't even sound like his normal boring self as he pushed home how we had to be faithful and labour before the end.  I told a few people about it and the tape disappeared the next time I went to pick out a tape.  I was also told that GG would never preach such a thing because nobody knows the time of the Lord's coming.  Ya, but GG was quite adamant that "I am convinced, brethren, that we only have a few years before the Lord returns.  I don't believe we will see the end of this decade."  This is pretty close to his exact words because I kept listening to that section of tape over and over again because I was shocked.  Well, we did see the end of the decade--almost three decades now!  When I started taking notes of my Assembly experience, I tried to find the tape to get his exact words but, as I said, it was gone and an empty space in the cassette holder was all that was left of it.  

While I think of it, it was either that tape or another where GG stated in a prophetic way that many people would abandon him and "the work" just before the end.  lol  Indeed, everyone did--with good reason.  (Look at how fallen leaders of the past have dealt with being exposed and how they still try to press on to milk their few remaining followers:  Jimmy Swaggart, Mike Warnke, etc.)    

Another nail in the coffin was listening to GG's seminar on giving hospitality.  The way he went on about how he acted when he was in other's homes was NOT the way he acted when he visited the brother's home I was living in at the time.  I remember him impatiently demanding an extra chicken breast sandwich ("Come on, come on" with dramatic hand gestures), how he hardly spoke at meals, how he seemed to ignore people and locked himself in his room most of the time, how terse he was when he spoke, his lack of joy, how he came to a meeting later than we normally did because he was impatiently waiting for one of his poems about a bookstore to be printed out, etc.  But the smile and enthusiasm turned on when he began his performance (pardon me, preaching).  

One of the things that made it so easy for me to leave the Assembly behind was I never bought into GG and some of the main Assembly beliefs (you need permission of the leading brothers to determine God's will, etc.).  When I heard things like GG having supposed visions while he was in Africa and how God told him he was not allowed to write poetry anymore and then suddenly allowed him to write poetry again through a variety of experiences just made me shake my head.  Also, GG speaking against other churches was a real turn off.  His apparent “righteous anger” was more a form of entertainment than anything else and I was not the only one to think so.  When GG came to Ottawa for a question and answer meeting, one of the sisters had written down anonymous anti-Assembly doctrine questions just to see him get upset (which he did).  I was not the only person who did not idolize GG.  One person confided in me that he was not the least impressed with GG due to how he acted in person and another person stated that he did not worship G like other people did.  Nobody is perfect, but GG was clearly NOT the person he tried to sell himself as.  And what made me laugh was people often said that he was such a great preacher of God’s Word.  On the contrary, to borrow another’s words, he was a mighty cure for insomnia!  The only thing that kept others and me from visiting the Land of Nod was GG’s many flurries of page-flipping fests of out-of-context Scripture quotations.  “Are you with me friends?”  God help us, yes!  But secretly we wished we were somewhere else and that he would just wrap up what he was incoherently communicating.  “You like stories, friends, don’t you?”  Yes, tell us one of the stories you have told a hundred times before like how you thought bread dipped in grease was a real treat because your family was so poor, how you loved to go to meetings when you were younger, or how you used to be such a muscular guy--at least we will understand what you are saying.  And some people would try to excuse how boring the tape ministries were by saying GG was a better speaker when he was younger or that he said deep things that were not always comprehensible.  Right!  And the stock question at the end of the meetings:  “How did the Lord speak to you?”  Thank goodness the question was not “Can you summarize in a few easy sentence what GG was trying to say?”  Remember how the titles or his three points did not always match with what he ended up saying? lol  

OK,  now I have a serious question.  Now that GG has been dethroned, how do devoted Assembly saints justify their beliefs and what do they say when they try to justify a course of action?  Who do people call to get advice?  In the past it was always “Brother George (or another respect saint) says…” or “Brother George teaches…”  Now that tape ministry is no more and many of the well-respected leaders have been affected by GG's departure, what fills this gap of tape ministry and giving supposed godly counsel?

Dear Will,

Getting off the subject again... is the Mike Warnke you refer to the same one who wrote The Satan Seller back in the 70's?? Our youth group once listened to a tape of his conversion and I later read that book. Not sure that was a good idea for an immature, insecure teenager. I remember being impressed by his "buddies" in the army who wouldn't stop telling him how Jesus loved him no matter how much he beat them up. I was very influenced by his testimony/book -- as well as Keith Green -- during high school. I always wondered what happened to him.

Karey

Multi-racial - yes. But no 'black-by-race' members.
The privileges that a few had.
I guess you got to 'see' GG in ways we never did because he was not allowed to stay in the home of non-workers. We only saw him when the performance began.
Are you indicating that the Assembly was GG and those he trained?

The Ottawa assembly claims that they have repented and have the Word and the Spirit to guide them.

Lord bless,
Marcia

I hate to be the barer of bad news, but Mike Warnke fell out of favor with the Christian community when a news expose revealed that his testamony was fabricated.  Here is a link to the story:

http://www.cornerstonemag.com/features/iss098/warnke_index.htm

-Dave

Thanks for that update, Dave, it grieves me to hear it.  

Lord Bless,
Karey