Pro-Life Ashcroft replaced by Rudy G.?

[editor]

Some of you may have heard that Attorney General John Ashcroft, a Christian conservative, is going to resign from the Bush cabinet, due to health reasons.  He suffered greatly from Pancreatitis this last year.

How many of you are aware that Rudy Giuliani is the number one pick for the job?

Rudy is staunchly pro-choice, pro-gay, among other things.  

IF, and I repeat IF, this happens, will this burst anyone's bubble about republicans actually putting forth a conservative agenda?  Do any of you want a pro-choice person as the the Attorney General?

Brent

[outdeep]

To me, this whole question of faith and politics is as follows:

Suppose I need to do business somewhere with a client.  I would probably feel OK doing business at an Applebees or hotel dining even though it had some flaw such as selling alcohol (Republicans).  I would probably would not feel comfortable doing the same business in a bar or strip joint (Democrats).  Really, I would rather meet at a Christian coffee house, but this is just not available.

The Applebees is the best I have.  When do I leave?  Perhaps when more people start getting drunk or they change their uniforms to be too revealing etc.  Would I leave if one person got drunk or one waitress wore her shorts too tight?  When does it no longer become workable?  When have they abandoned their pro-family side and slid into their immoral side?

So, of course I don't like Giuliani being pro-choice.  How many pro-choicers and pro-gay folks do we tolerate before it is no longer workable?  Well, that is the question, isn't it?  I wish we had the Christian coffee house party, but we don't.  

One thing that incidents like Giuliani does is it is a wake-up call reminder that our President does not have a Christian mandate.  He is a President that is sympathetic to Christianity for sure.  I admit in my heart of hearts, I want this to work.  I want to believe that all is well with brother Bush in the White House.   But, I know that simply isn't true.  We simply have a better situation than if Kerry were elected.

I don't personally see that the conservative cause has become unworkable yet.  But, I suspect that in my lifetime it will or it will faction off into different camps.

Then there were those like Jim Elliot who refused to involve himself in politics of any kind so he never had to make these kinds of decision.

[editor]

To me, this whole question of faith and politics is as follows:

Suppose I need to do business somewhere with a client.  I would probably feel OK doing business at an Applebees or hotel dining even though it had some flaw such as selling alcohol (Republicans).  I would probably would not feel comfortable doing the same business in a bar or strip joint (Democrats).  Really, I would rather meet at a Christian coffee house, but this is just not available.

The Applebees is the best I have.  When do I leave?  Perhaps when more people start getting drunk or they change their uniforms to be too revealing etc.  Would I leave if one person got drunk or one waitress wore her shorts too tight?  When does it no longer become workable?  When have they abandoned their pro-family side and slid into their immoral side?

So, of course I don't like Giuliani being pro-choice.  How many pro-choicers and pro-gay folks do we tolerate before it is no longer workable?  Well, that is the question, isn't it?  I wish we had the Christian coffee house party, but we don't.  

One thing that incidents like Giuliani does is it is a wake-up call reminder that our President does not have a Christian mandate.  He is a President that is sympathetic to Christianity for sure.  I admit in my heart of hearts, I want this to work.  I want to believe that all is well with brother Bush in the White House.   But, I know that simply isn't true.  We simply have a better situation than if Kerry were elected.

I don't personally see that the conservative cause has become unworkable yet.  But, I suspect that in my lifetime it will or it will faction off into different camps.

Then there were those like Jim Elliot who refused to involve himself in politics of any kind so he never had to make these kinds of decision.

100% agreement here.

It proves my point that pro-life folks are less principled, and more pragmatic.

Of course, pro-choice people are totally "principled."  There is no way they are going to put a pro-life guy as attorney general in a Democrat administration.

Interesting, isn't it?

Brent

[summer007]

Rudy Guillaini is probibly smart enough to know many woman would be butchered in back-alley dirty abortions and feels its better to give people the choice. Human nature being what it is. As a former Right to Life Counsellor people seeking abortions come from all walks of life and religions alot of them are Christian teens one of my last calls was from a 14- to 15 year old christian teen screaming at me at the time I had a one and two year old at home and was unable to find a replacement that day, a day I had requested off. ( this was purely voluntarary work, absolutly free) There was no-one to cover for me seeing that it was a major Hoilday! this was about 15 years ago. Again men have alot of talk in this area, and very little Action!   Summer

[summer007]

Question: How many of the Christian Men on-board here are currently actively working that is volunteering time and money to this Pro-Life issue you all feel so strongly about?( or is your leading decision making factor in voting, etc.) I would speculate maybe one or two if even that. Thanks Summer.

[editor]

Question: How many of the Christian Men on-board here are currently actively working that is volunteering time and money to this Pro-Life issue you all feel so strongly about?( or is your leading decision making factor in voting, etc.) I would speculate maybe one or two if even that. Thanks Summer.

Great question Summer!

I think I mentioned somewhere below about my involvement in Pro-life activities.

Currently, and  for the last 15 years, I am a financial supporter for either of the two organizations in our area, and am going to write a column for one of them.

Until recently, Suzie was a volunteer counselor for one of them.  

Staffing is not a need right now, but money always is.   Pro-life organisations don't get the millions/billions that Planned Parenthood gets.

Your question illustrates one of the sad facts regarding the Pro-life battle.  Men, in the main, are not as involved as they should be.  Yes, there are reasons for this, but it's easy and quite helpful to write a check!  The money helps make it possible for women to do the face-to-face counseling.

Also, we have spent so much time and energy focusing on convincing people that abortion is homicide, that we haven't done as much as we should to provide valid alternatives to abortion, the most important one being an overhaul of adoption laws.

Abortion is free and convenient in the short term, and results in a lifetime of quilt and regret for many who choose it.

Adoption is incredibley costly and difficult, but reaps a lifetime of reward and blessing.

We need to make adoption easier.

Brent

[summer007]

Brent, Good to know you put your money where your mouth is. Is'nt it interesting that either way the woman suffers from this. The irresponsible men get off scot-free. Unless the woman keeps the child and then the D.A. goes after him. If men's reproductive rights were tampered with their certainly would be an uproar, say if men were tracked through the DNA process and given a temporary vasectomy for their irresponsibilty alot of these un-wanted pregnancies would be stopped. Yes adoption is still a good answer and many, want to adopt. I think the increase in infertility is due alot to botched abortions not just people waiting later in life.  Its interesting to me when someone who I know has had an abortion and they offer un-solicited advise on children who wer'nt convenient for them at the time. Their convenient for them now, but the person seems to be sterile. Always puzzeling, but I feel compassion for them, not condemnation.  Summer.

[editor]

Brent, Good to know you put your money where your mouth is. Is'nt it interesting that either way the woman suffers from this. The irresponsible men get off scot-free. Unless the woman keeps the child and then the D.A. goes after him. If men's reproductive rights were tampered with their certainly would be an uproar, say if men were tracked through the DNA process and given a temporary vasectomy for their irresponsibilty alot of these un-wanted pregnancies would be stopped. Yes adoption is still a good answer and many, want to adopt. I think the increase in infertility is due alot to botched abortions not just people waiting later in life.  Its interesting to me when someone who I know has had an abortion and they offer un-solicited advise on children who wer'nt convenient for them at the time. Their convenient for them now, but the person seems to be sterile. Always puzzeling, but I feel compassion for them, not condemnation.  Summer.

The physiological effects of abortion are profound, and not well understood.  Anyone wanting to research this area is putting an immediate "halt" sign on their career, and will run up against a brick wall in any university setting.  The last thing a university wants is to be labeled "right wing, pro-life" and they certainly don't want to be blacklisted and shunned when it comes to doleing out the federal research dollars, which they all pander for.

Perhaps this will change under the second term for George Bush.

Anyhow, when a pregnancy is "terminated," a woman's body gets a massive, hormonal whiplash.  It is theorized that this leads to sterility, dysmenhorrea, and possibly breast cancer.  The fact is, abortion is sold as a safe, outpatient procedure---not too safe for the baby, but that's the whole point of it---when the truth is that we really have no idea whether it is safe or not.

Any historical look at scientific research reveals that conventional wisdom has always been the chief roadblock in the way of the truth.  Add to this the reality that research is a business---that of aquiring federal money, or selling a product---and facts that threaten to abortion industry are not at all welcome.

If it turns out that abortion is dangerous to women, I wonder if the feminists will have anything to say about it?  I'm sure the boyfriends won't care too much.(a generalization here, not always the case)

To sum up, if we lobbed some money towards researching the longterm effects of abortion/multiple abortion, it would be money well spent.  Virtually every other procedure in medicine has been researched in this way, abortion should be no different.  This would allow women to make better choices.  This would be relatively inexpensive research to begin with, as it would basically mean statistics applied to the medical histories of a random sampling of women over the last 30 years.  The trends revealed here would suggest logical follow up projects to validate/disprove the findings.

Of course, a better solution would be not to spend a dime on abortion in the first place.

Brent

[vernecarty]

Question: How many of the Christian Men on-board here are currently actively working that is volunteering time and money to this Pro-Life issue you all feel so strongly about?( or is your leading decision making factor in voting, etc.) I would speculate maybe one or two if even that. Thanks Summer.

I think the best hope for changing the destiny of a nation is to raise a godly generation - we have tp get the children.
With this in mind, my wife and devote all our volunteer time to assisting teachers at the school where our girls attend.
We Christians are also doing a miserable job manitaining godliness in our own families. Many of us are not fit for battle elsewhere...
Verne

[summer007]

Verne, I do agree with you. I also think its great your helping the teachers. Our children see us for who we truly are the good the bad and the ugly. Having teens brings some latent things out in one. Fortunitly my Son and Daughter both love their youth groups and will not miss unless bed-ridden (which is rare) they are not forced to go, but many of their friends attend, my son hangs out and surfs with many of his christian friends he's known for several years, he's really a good hearted person. And my daughter, I have to hold back from over-volunteering, as she has so much follow-up from campus christian club. Their Father is with the Lord, he had a Heart-Attack one hour before his tread-mill heart test, he was trying to call 911 from his desk at work, and his crew could'nt get into his shop, as the doors were still locked. So he was un-able to be resusitated with cpr. Point being some of us are doing the job of mother and father, be grateful your not towing the line as a single parent. My Pastor did recently say I may ask you to teach a class, my first thought was, wondering if I could devote the proper amount of time to that, definitly not a lack of confidence. But that typical push of churches to get people to volunteer which is good in a sence if thats what the Lord is leading you to do.  Summer

[vernecarty]

Verne, I do agree with you. I also think its great your helping the teachers. Our children see us for who we truly are the good the bad and the ugly. Having teens brings some latent things out in one. Fortunitly my Son and Daughter both love their youth groups and will not miss unless bed-ridden (which is rare) they are not forced to go, but many of their friends attend, my son hangs out and surfs with many of his christian friends he's known for several years, he's really a good hearted person. And my daughter, I have to hold back from over-volunteering, as she has so much follow-up from campus christian club. Their Father is with the Lord, he had a Heart-Attack one hour before his tread-mill heart test, he was trying to call 911 from his desk at work, and his crew could'nt get into his shop, as the doors were still locked. So he was un-able to be resusitated with cpr. Point being some of us are doing the job of mother and father, be grateful your not towing the line as a single parent. My Pastor did recently say I may ask you to teach a class, my first thought was, wondering if I could devote the proper amount of time to that, definitly not a lack of confidence. But that typical push of churches to get people to volunteer which is good in a sence if thats what the Lord is leading you to do.  Summer

You have my profound admiration. My sympathies over the loss of a partner in the incredibly important task of raising well-adjusted children.
It is hard for me to imagine how I would survive without Montse.
Before I got married I was a fiercely independent soul. I prided myself as a single guy on knowing how to take care of a home, including preparing a seven course meal. Ask my friends who came to dinner.
I now consider all the ways that she brings completeness to my own life and all the amazing things she does to make me a better human being and I cannot imagine life without her.
I fervently ask God to test me in other ways...
Verne

[summer007]

Verne, Thanks. It sounds like you have a Beautiful Family, and your a mean chef. I can relate to the fiercley independent mode of living.  God Bless Summer

[vernecarty]

I was walking along Michigan avenue yesterday with my two little girls and there was an anti-abortion group with large and graphic pictures of aborted babies, some in the third tri-mester.
Little Anna, my eight year-old looked up into my face and asked:

"Daddy, what do those pictures mean...?"

I wonder how long the Lord is going to let us continue to do this...
Lord Jesus, please have mercy on our nation...
Verne

         

[summer007]

And what did the Wise Father reply to the curious mind of an eight year old.? Tough question. How about I'll tell you when your older, or Evil men kill babies and it is the norm. Surley these people have reservations in the blackest darknesss of hell where the worn dies not and the fire is not quenched. And yet the Lord is not slack in his judgement, he is ever GOOD and long-suffering hoping the wicked will forsake their way, and turn to his mercy

[vernecarty]

And what did the Wise Father reply to the curious mind of an eight year old.?

I stalled for time with " I'll tell you later."
I am still trying to figure out what to say and how to say it. I am consulting with her mom...

Please pray for me for wisdom...
Verne