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Author Topic: So WHO Is Decieved???  (Read 174675 times)
affirming
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« Reply #105 on: March 28, 2003, 12:36:21 am »

paul,

yes, i think i just heard somebody mention if anybody brought toothpicks.  no really this doesn't bother me much emotionally, but it bugs me to hear so much pain and crying for help and yet some have bitterness and such anger - that it's like what my husband told me about drowning people that he learned as a lifeguard in college - it's very frustrating when you try to save someone and they fight so hard.  sometimes it gets really bad before they pass out or something, then you can get ahold.  what really puzzles me is that the ones who ought to be the lifeguards are instructing the victims to go ahead and continue to fight and stuff like "yea, you deserve to just have all of the fits you want to have." i understand being hurt, but i always knew that somehow i would not be able to justify my bitterness before God.  so as soon as i could see it, i knew it was there, but i just didn't accept that i would be living with it for long.  eventually i worked through it and let it go and it let me go.

verne,

why do you want it so badly - a pound of flesh.  this, of course, is not a question that i can answer.  i haven't been around g in umpteen years.  if i were around him, heard him preach, etc. i could perhaps know if ikabod was on his head.  i don't know if he has lost his annointing.  i know when i knew him i believe he was an annointed servant of God albeit he had some real problems to get worked out.  there are rumors of infidelity.  but so far i don't think there is much about his life that hasn't been suggested in terms of immorality.  

this i know many are out to judge.  in my 53 years i have not known as cruel a people as some fundamenalist religious people.  beyond a yea and a nay - i leave this stuff in hand's of God and wiser saints than myself.  


Matt 25:31-46
31   When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32   And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33   And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34   Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35   For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36   Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37   Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38   When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39   Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40   And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41   Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42   For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43   I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44   Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45   Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46   And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.
(KJV)

my point is some who think they are - are not and some who think they are not - are.  i don't believe this scripture is about "doing" good works.  i believe this is an instruction of the fact that God is judge and He looks deep into the heart of a man or woman and SEES us - who we really are...not what others think, not what success we've had in numbers of people for us or conversely - who or how many are against us.......

you didn't answer my questions - did i answer yours?

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Joe Sperling
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« Reply #106 on: March 28, 2003, 01:46:26 am »

Affirming---

"The ones who ought to be lifeguards are instructing the vicitims to go ahead and continue to fight and stuff like 'yea, you deserve to just have all of the fits you want to have". You said this in reference to someone who fights someone trying to save them from drowning.

But I must say Affirming there is another way to look at this too. You very well could be like the person on the other side of a burning house, and as people warn everyone inside to "Get out of that house!!! It's on fire!!!" you reply "Oh, don't listen to them, they're just angry and bitter".

Brent and others are like the firefighters outside yelling "Get out of that place now, it's surrounded with flames and you're gonna get burned if you stay there!!!"
You're like the one saying "Oh come on, it's not all that serious, it's probably just a trash can fire". So you instruct  the "victims" to just be calm and relax and do nothing because the Lord will help them. But just maybe the Lord sent the firefighters to warn about the serious fire. Is this a possiblility? yes--a very real possibility.

The Lord has warned his people to get out of that place and far from it's teachings, to "earnestly contend for the faith" and expose the error by shouting from the rooftops if necessary. It's far better that the "victims" struggle to get free rather than sit back and do nothing--It's better to escape the flames than to start passing out the marshmallows as the fire draws nearer.

--Joe
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« Reply #107 on: March 28, 2003, 01:52:02 am »

Just a few observations from finally reading this thread...

Brent,

Although I agree with most of your posts, I think all of your accomplishments have gone to your head...that is completely understandable...it's just human nature...

P.S. My reply to Brian is also for you...

Thanks Paul

I'll take this to heart.  The last thing I want to do is think that any of this is "my" accomplishment.  Yes, I was there, and obeyed, but we both know that there is NO WAY that I could have done this, without God's annointing and leading.  I don't want any more credit than I deserve, neither do I want to take away anyone else's reward for what they did.  

I am not happy that George and the Geftakys's have been exposed, I am only happy that some of God's people have been delivered.  I will be even happier when more of them come along.

There was more to George's ministry than just a few people.  There was some power there, but I believe, with all my heart, that is was demonic power.  Affirming said, in one of her posts, that the one person we never seem to blame is the Evil One.  I know she hasn't been around here for long, so I just wanted to make sure that everyone understands that I am under no illusions that George is our enemy.  

We wrestle not against flesh and blood.  George is a wicked man, who has only a short time to repent.  As the Bible tells us, his mouth must be stopped, he must be withstood to his face, because he is to be blamed.  He must be rebuked before all, that the others may fear.  However, behind all of this is Satan himself.

The reason we can't just stop short and say,  "Well, George has been exposed.  Can't we all just move on?"  is because the spirit behind Geftakysism is alive and well, waiting to bring many back again into a yoke of bondage.

3 years ago, when I knew the truth about George, David and the rest, it broke my heart to see how blind and hostile everyone was towards the truth.  Now, people are willing to admit that George was wrong, to one degree or another, but they act as if they figured it out for themselves.  I'm sorry, but the truth was forced upon many of you, without your consent, and in spite of your wishes. You would have remained in the dark if no one spoke up.  Is this not true?  

Now, when people know the truth, the same prideful ignorance is being shown with regard to the other things that they served, things that accompanied George.

4 years ago, we all "Served only Christ."  Now, looking back, many of us realize that we were deceived.  For others, the fact that they may not have been totally enlightened under George's teaching is just beginning to dawn on them.  Still others think that George was great, and that his teaching was godly, but that he fell into sin and we should cut him a break.

Let me be so bold as to say that perahps I am a little farther along in the enlightenment process, with regard to Gefatkysism.  (Please don't call this pride.  I had inside information for years, while everyone in the Assembly called me a liar, etc.  In fact, one of you Robinson boys wrote Rick Ross about how everything on the web was a lie.  I am not being proud, I just happened to be mentally put together, and to have lived with David and Judy, and next door to them for many years, in order that I was able to see that something was wrong.  This isn't pride, it is simply a fact.  I didn't choose this lot, it chose me.)

So, when you hear me "go off," in a post, it could very well be pride.  At the same time, it could be mixed with a good deal of truth.  I am asking that all of you hold me accountable in this area.  If my pride comes out too strong in my posts, so that you can't hear what I am trying to say, then I want you to call me on it.

Fair enough?

Brent
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Heide
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« Reply #108 on: March 28, 2003, 02:05:56 am »

In regards to the people who had legs and didn't leave. I would like to go back into history. Once upon a time, Judy told David that she was going to leave him, he said that was fine but she couldn't take the kids. She chose to stay.

Another history? What happens when you leave the assembly? I was taught that I was in danger of losing my place in heaven, those mainstream churches don't have life, I will flounder out here on my own. Hmmm, doesn't really make me want to leave.

I understand about crying in sister's homes. I did my share. Not because I wasn't godly but because I couldn't live up to a standard. A man's standard of how women should behave. God was no where in that. It was an assembly teaching.

So has this thread now become that Brent is deceived?

Heide
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« Reply #109 on: March 28, 2003, 02:09:24 am »

but the saints on high enjoy a heavenly heirachy of administration that truly establishes and keeps order amoung those who are His.  i believe they administer God's plan of salvation and levels of cleansing through trials, sanctification and teaching of faith, and levels of learning to live and deeper life in the presence of God in the spirit realm.  oh now i know where's the verse?.................. and tell me this what do you believe the melchezedek priesthood is?

Dear Affirming

I know you probably won't respond to this, but I'm like a trout who smell powerbait..I just can't help myself, I gotta take the hook.

Nowhere, absolutely nowhere in the Bible does it ever say anything about, "different levels of cleansing."  Yes, I am familiar with the Deeper Life ideas of the Keswick writers, Govett, Guyon, and the others.  Quite familiar actually.  I used to love this stuff, because it helped me make sense of the senseless.  Everything seemed wrong, but on a deeper, higher level, surely all of this wrong was really being used for right!  I only needed to submit to the false, in order that God could get His perfect plan in my life.  On a "deep, spiritual level," it all made sense.

I don't believe that sort of thing anymore.


The Melchizedekian priesthood differs from the Aaronic priesthood in that the former is headed by a King/Priest, the Great High Priest being the Lord Jesus.

Aaronic priests did not excercise the authority of kings, they were subject to them.  They were mediators, not legislators.

The Melchizedekian priesthood exercise executive as well as mediatorial functions.  That is what Christians are, royal priests.  Aaronic priests are through Levi,  and royal priests are through David, and thus through Christ.

I eagerly await your explanation as to why you bring up this topic.

Brent
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Arthur
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« Reply #110 on: March 28, 2003, 02:55:24 am »

      THE FAITH ONCE DELIVERED TO THE SAINTS

  Christianity is faith in a set of objective facts.  

I agree, Mark, well put.  Our faith is not based on personal opinons or feelings, rather on divine revelation from God, i.e. God spoke the truth to mankind, recorded in what we know as the Bible (and with that, we have recorded the very life and words of the one who was the Word became flesh, Jesus).  
It seems that a lot of problems that we, as humans, have is that we can not see clearly and therefore speak or act in ineffective, and sometimes harmful, wrong directions.  
Isn't that the issue that is the cause for the strife in this very thread?   If we all could see the truth clearly and had a heart to do what is right, no doubt there would be no problems.
Perhaps a careful study into the claims of some in this thread would reveal if what they said was true.

As for Christians adhering to sound doctrine, take a look at the following verses. (There are many also in the O.T. but I thought I'd cut the list down for brevity Smiley  Of particular interest to me are the verses in I and II Tim and Titus.  Paul exhorts both to hold to sound doctrine, to live it, and to never stop preaching it.  
Also, from the passages in Galatians, we see just why it is that Paul is so adamant about taking his stand for the truth of the gospel.  Because Jesus paid so great a price to set us free, Paul would never taint or twist in any way the simple and clear message of what Jesus did for us.  THAT is the sound doctrine that we need to cling to and proclaim.
You can just hear Paul saying with passion, "I do NOT frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain!"  No way would Paul give in to that.  Why?  Because, as he said, Jesus "loved me and gave himself for me."


Matt 4:4
But he answered and said, It is written, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.  

Matt 24:35
Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.  

John 8:31-32
31 Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; 32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.

John 20:31
But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Rom 6:17
But God be thanked, that ye were the servants of sin, but ye have obeyed from the heart that form of doctrine which was delivered you.

Rom 10:17
17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Rom 16:17
Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.

Gal 1:6-12
6 I marvel that ye are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ unto another gospel: 7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. 8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed. 9 As we said before, so say I now again, if any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed. 10 For do I now persuade men, or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ. 11 But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. 12 For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ.

Gal 2:4-5,14,21
4 And that because of false brethren unawares brought in, who came in privily to spy out our liberty which we have in Christ Jesus, that they might bring us into bondage: 5 To whom we gave place by subjection, no, not for an hour; that the truth of the gospel might continue with you.
14 But when I saw that they walked not uprightly according to the truth of the gospel, I said unto Peter before them all, If thou, being a Jew, livest after the manner of Gentiles, and not as do the Jews, why compellest thou the Gentiles to live as do the Jews?
21 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain.

Eph 2:20
20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;

I Tim 1:9-11
9 Knowing this, that the law is not made for a righteous man, but for the lawless and disobedient, for the ungodly and for sinners, for unholy and profane, for murderers of fathers and murderers of mothers, for manslayers, 10 For whoremongers, for them that defile themselves with mankind, for menstealers, for liars, for perjured persons, and if there be any other thing that is contrary to sound doctrine; 11 According to the glorious gospel of the blessed God, which was committed to my trust.

I Tim 4:6
If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Jesus Christ, nourished up in the words of faith and of good doctrine, whereunto thou hast attained.

I Tim 4:13
Till I come, give attendance to reading, to exhortation, to doctrine.  

I Tim 4:16
Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.

I Tim 6:2b-5
These things teach and exhort. 3 If any man teach otherwise, and consent not to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which is according to godliness; 4 He is proud, knowing nothing, but doting about questions and strifes of words, whereof cometh envy, strife, railings, evil surmisings, 5 Perverse disputings of men of corrupt minds, and destitute of the truth, supposing that gain is godliness: from such withdraw thyself.

II Tim 1:13-14
13 Hold fast the form of sound words, which thou hast heard of me, in faith and love which is in Christ Jesus. 14 That good thing which was committed unto thee keep by the Holy Ghost which dwelleth in us.

II Tim 3:10a, 13-17
10 But thou hast fully known my doctrine, manner of life,...
13 But evil men and seducers shall wax worse and worse, deceiving, and being deceived. 14 But continue thou in the things which thou hast learned and hast been assured of, knowing of whom thou hast learned them; 15 And that from a child thou hast known the holy scriptures, which are able to make thee wise unto salvation through faith which is in Christ Jesus. 16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness: 17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

II Tim 4:1-5
1 I charge thee therefore before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, who shall judge the quick and the dead at his appearing and his kingdom; 2 Preach the word; be instant in season, out of season; reprove, rebuke, exhort with all long suffering and doctrine. 3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; 4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables. 5 But watch thou in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, make full proof of thy ministry.

Titus 1:9-16
9 Holding fast the faithful word as he hath been taught, that he may be able by sound doctrine both to exhort and to convince the gainsayers. 10 For there are many unruly and vain talkers and deceivers, specially they of the circumcision: 11 Whose mouths must be stopped, who subvert whole houses, teaching things which they ought not, for filthy lucre's sake. 12 One of themselves, even a prophet of their own, said, the Cretians are alway liars, evil beasts, slow bellies. 13 This witness is true. Wherefore rebuke them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith; 14 Not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men, that turn from the truth. 15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure; but even their mind and conscience is defiled. 16 They profess that they know God; but in works they deny him, being abominable, and disobedient, and unto every good work reprobate.

Tit 2:1
1 But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

Tit 2:6-8
6 Young men likewise exhort to be sober minded. 7 In all things shewing thyself a pattern of good works: in doctrine shewing uncorruptness, gravity, sincerity, 8 Sound speech, that cannot be condemned; that he that is of the contrary part may be ashamed, having no evil thing to say of you.

Heb 13:9
Be not carried about with divers and strange doctrines. For it is a good thing that the heart be established with grace; not with meats, which have not profited them that have been occupied therein.  

II Pet 1:19-21
19 We have also a more sure word of prophecy; whereunto ye do well that ye take heed, as unto a light that shineth in a dark place, until the day dawn, and the day star arise in your hearts: 20 Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation. 21 For the prophecy came not in old time by the will of man: but holy men of God spake as they were moved by the Holy Ghost.

II John 1:9-10
Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son. 10 If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:  
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Arthur
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« Reply #111 on: March 28, 2003, 03:13:36 am »

sorry, i'm not very computer saavy.  i wrote the posts on WORD. i don't know what all of the 8217, etc. are about.


The "’" is annoying.  The cause is that a graphical quotation mark is inserted --   '   -- and the bb software can't interpret it correctly.  
To solve this, after copying the text from Word into your post, you'd have to go back and retype each ' that you see.  The quotation mark that you type in this post is readable by the bb software.  

Arthrur
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Arthur
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« Reply #112 on: March 28, 2003, 03:21:58 am »


If there's anybody I missed, I missed you on purpose...


What about Jesse J.?  I think maybe it got buried, but I thought it was a pertinent story, if not almost humorous.  Smiley
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vernecarty
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« Reply #113 on: March 28, 2003, 03:24:22 am »

Of course David is the quintessential case; how did he respond when confronted with his sin?
 And David said unto Nathan, I have sinned against the Lord...
2 Samuel 12:13

This is, in my view, the distinguishing standard. How does one respond when confronted with transgression?
In all the cases in which we find failure on the part of God’s servants, correction and discipline results in immediate submission and acceptance of God's discipline. This is true of Abraham, it is true of Moses, it is true of  Samson, it is true of David, it is true of Jonah…all certified true servants of the living God, yet not without sin. When God summarily slew the wicked sons of Aaron he wisely "held his peace".  Romans nine in fact tells us that the response to God's correction is one of the ways in which the eternal counsels of God are most sharply delineated, Think long and hard about it folks. This is weighty. What about George Geftakys??
I respectfully submit that the absence of this defining characteristic is definitive in the matter of our assessment of George Geftakys. He refuses to repent!
Next we should consider the positive traits of those the bible clearly identifies as false prohpets, wolves in sheep's clothing, false teachers etc. In short, the typology of those who harden the heart. Why would the Word of God list such characteristics if we were not intended to recognize and beware such individuals? More to come...
Verne
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Arthur
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« Reply #114 on: March 28, 2003, 03:41:47 am »

Was George ever the Lord's servant or even an elder?

King David was chosen by God and annointed by Samuel.  Did God choose George?  George said so, but what good is that?  Did J Vernon McGee pour oil on his head?

King David proved to be tender-hearted and humble and repentant.  George has not.  How could it be said that the Spirit of Christ dwells in George?

As for elder, didn't George appoint himself as elder?  Oh, but maybe the people in Fullerton agreed.  Well, so did the Jonestown dwellers of the Raven.  What good is that? (ok, that was a bit of an extreme analogy, but used for effect Smiley

Any difference between George and a mafia crime boss other than the venue?  Well, perhaps George's crime was worse in that the fraud and extortion he committed were under the guise of something spiritual.
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Arthur
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« Reply #115 on: March 28, 2003, 04:01:18 am »

I'm reading  "Once For All Reality" by G.G. again to try to retrace my steps.  That was one of the first booklets of G.G. that I read that, so I thought, helped me in understanding my Christian liberty.  

It is...how do I describe it...weird.  While reading it, the light of God's word, that George quotes, shines through.  But inbetween the verses of light is this strange dark cloud that is George's comments. I'm thinking of putting up a detailed analysis soon.
He starts out with a good, solid and true statement, then the very next statment has a subtle chain attached to it and it just goes downhill from there.  Weird!

Honestly, at the time when I first read it, I was so glad to learn and believe that I could once for all be set free from living a compromised Christian life.  Looking back on it, I think that God did break through, by virtue of the verses that George quoted.  It was the Word itself that gave life.  Unfortunately, George hid in this spiritual nourishment for my soul a little bit of his leaven that poisoned it.  Which I realized years later to my harm and disappointment.
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« Reply #116 on: March 28, 2003, 04:22:06 am »

Dear Verne

I have about 50 tapes of George, David and Betty's teaching.  Another person has over 150.  I don't feel like listening to them, but I have spent a few minutes here and there, and there is more than enough damning words from their mouths.  However, none of that matters at this point.

Those that have responded to the truth are out, and however confused, are not listening to George anymore.  I think that in time, most of these will be OK.

Then there are those who are going to follow this man, no matter what.  Seriously, these people would allow George to do almost anything, and it would be OK with them.  There are many cult stories that bear this out.  David Koresh, a self proclaimed, "Servant of God," did all sorts of weird things, to the point of "marrying" 12 year old daughters of his followers.  His flock stuck with him.

Honestly, I truly believe that those who continue to follow GG are in the same boat.

Also, if you study cults and abusive churches, you discover a very disturbing fact:

Most people in these groups have been in another just like it before, or will join another just like it upon being "delivered."  

That is why discussions such as this are so important.  All of the people in Waco had "deep spiritual reality" with God.  So did the people at Jonestown, also the Solar Temple, Concerned Christians, Attleboro, and many others.  This is spiritual darkness we are dealing with, and to many of us, it is painfully obvious that some of the posters here on the BB are still in the dark.  

Brent
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« Reply #117 on: March 28, 2003, 04:36:39 am »

You know Verne

Sometimes, I look at this and just say, "What for?  Why do I do this?"

Then, something like what just happens occurs.

Someone sent me a paper version of some of the "best of GA.com" including my book, all in collated, notebook form.  It took some work.  This person sent out about a dozen copies to people he cares about.  How humbling, and how wonderful.

I put up with the misinformed personal attacks, and the frustration of it all, because it is SO worth it!

Brent
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« Reply #118 on: March 28, 2003, 05:20:54 am »

Hmmm...getting off topic again, must get on topic....

I think the fact that people who haven't been around for decades came out of the woodwork when this website came up is a good indication that we will never forget our Assembly experience.  Will we still be posting?  Probably not, but I know that I will still be talking to people about this, because there aren't too many people in "normal" churches who understand what we went through.  It is super important to talk about these things, and if you just show up at some "Normal" church and start sharing about GG and brother's houses, the people there will think you were in a cult and maybe are not even saved!

Recovering from the Assembly, and keeping your faith in Christ is an open door for ministry, because there are plenty more Assemblies and George's out there just waiting to take folks money and time.  In fact, we will probably be talking with the guys from SF in 10 years, after some of them wake up from their stupor.  

I am quite confident that each of us will play some key part in some wounded pilgrim's life in the future.


Brent
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affirming
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« Reply #119 on: March 28, 2003, 05:31:44 am »

listen to yourselves.  this is not about informing others - this is about fellowshipping the hatred of george.  you guys have lost objectivity.  g is very small in my life. is he in yours? you can say it's for others and that makes you sound so justified and godly and selfless.  but when i read some of the stuff several of you are living on - i can't seem to come up with anything but hatred.  you know you can get people so worked up that something awful could be perpetrated.  there are some really crazy and hurt people out there.  stating things brent like - he's got to be stopped can really get planted in some minds that could cause awful tradgety.  i know what you mean, but i just wanted to suggest that you could really inflame some of the wrong people.  i emailed verne to caution you on this...but i don't know if he did...i just think it's wise to make yourself clear when you use some of those terms.  
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