Well I'd like to try and weigh in on this topic of forgiveness if I may.
If we need to confess or repent in order to be forgiven;then what about those who Christ forgave when he was being crucified.
Why on earth don't we read our Bibles carefully???
Christ asked
The Father to forgive them!!!
( same idea with Stephen...read it...)
Yes, he forgives unconditionally(prior to salvation, repentance, or reconciliation) but in order to receive salvation and reconciliation a person must believe in what has already taken place, the purchase of our forgiveness.
Kevin did you read what you wrote here? You have essentially stated that people that Christ
forgave unconditionally are yet without salvation and in danger of hell-fire. In other words, your vaunted "unconditional forgiveness" in and of itself is ultimately
meaningless, as clearly attested to by your strange caveat "But in order...". I repeat, by your own argument "unconditional forgiveness" in and of itself is
meaningless! What in the world has happened to
reason among God's people?
Let us consider the way Kevin prefaces his argument.
The statement "if we need to confess or repent in order to be forgiven..." is incomprehensible.
Why is a propositional interrogative being raised about what the Bible clearly says, and says repeatedly? Do the examples Kevin gives in any way logically contradict the Biblical teaching of 1 John 1:9? Why don't we just for a moment use our brains instead of our hearts?
There were many with heart conviction who followed and enabled George Geftakys for three decades. Unless we can agree that the Word of God is the ultimate standard for all we hold true and believe, we will forever be prey to convincing counterfeits.
If anyone has an alternate understanding of 1 John 1:9 I would certainly like to hear it. Unless language is meaningless, to deny what the verse clearly says and construct "heart reasons" for a doctrinal position is sheer folly.
One of the reasons for the confusion, and I purposely waited until now to mention it is that the advocates of unconditional forgiveness have been ignoring a fundamental Biblical premise. Those of you so confident in your position answer me this simple question.
Who has the power to forgive sin? Do any of you?
The answer to this is obvious even to the brain- dead.
Tell me therefore, when you "forgive" someone,
what exactly are you "forgiving"?
Please, no more "heart reasons". Read your Bibles and use the brain God gave you...
Verne
p.s.
Lest anyone misunderstand me, clearly the
attitude of heart that Kevin and Chuck are espousing is Biblically correct. To attach however the word
unconditional to forgiveness betrays a woeful misunderstanding of what the word truly means. What we are seeing is the kind of circumlocution and confusion that results when we fail to simply read the Word of God and believe what it says. No wonder George Geftakys was able to make merchandise of so many. What a pity that we stilll do not understand what Chirst
acutally did for us, and what it
cost...!
