So WHO Is Decieved???

[editor]

Does proximity have anything to do with the degree of influence by Geftakysism? GG only visited us once a year; TG only visited us once a year; and we had other itinerant visitors 2 or 3 other times in the year.

My thought is that GG probably did not need to visit us more than once a year because he was confident that 'his will was being done'. It only takes/took one faithful Geftakysservant in each locality for GG's system to be enforced. Also the worker's met twice a month and reviewed the worker's notes from Fullerton.

Any comments?

Marcia

Hi Marcia:

Everyone says things like, "Well, we weren't as bad as SLO,"  or  "George only came here once a year," in order to show that somehow they weren't part of George's ministry.

Well,  George only visited SLO once or twice a year.  David only visited the meetings 8 to 10 times per year in the late 90's.  However, the workers visited George and David twice per month, and went to Colorado every year.  So, up here in SLO we weren't that bad.  George only visited once or twice a year.

I guess I would put it like this.  Jack Welch is credited for leading GE to prosperity.  How many people in GE could say,  "Well, Jack has never been to my house before, he isn't my CEO?"  Get it?  George was at the helm, no doubt about it.

Up there in Ottawa, whose books were removed from the book table?  Where were the banned books purchased?  Did your leaders talk with one of George's lieutenants?

Case closed.  Any leader/worker geftakysservant who says,  "George only visited once a year,"  in order to claim they weren't Geftakysservants is revealing their character.  Deceived, Dishonest, and Disqualified.  The three D's.    Perhaps there is a fourth D.....?

Brent

[M2]

Well,  George only visited SLO once or twice a year.  David only visited the meetings 8 to 10 times per year in the late 90's.  However, the workers visited George and David twice per month, and went to Colorado every year.  So, up here in SLO we weren't that bad.  George only visited once or twice a year.

I guess I would put it like this.  Jack Welch is credited for leading GE to prosperity.  How many people in GE could say,  "Well, Jack has never been to my house before, he isn't my CEO?"  Get it?  George was at the helm, no doubt about it.

Up there in Ottawa, whose books were removed from the book table?  Where were the banned books purchased?  Did your leaders talk with one of George's lieutenants?

Good analogy Brent. George was at the helm of the Ottawa assembly for sure. Many from Ottawa (some in and some out) have said that we 'copied' another assembly whenever we needed to make a decision on assembly matters. So some of the saints in fellowship were/are not fooled by the 'proximity' garbage. We had one or more of George's lieutenants right in our midst, and we did communicate with a number of them from other assemblies too. The Fullerton worker's notes guided our decisions too. George was confident that his will was being done in the Ottawa assembly.

Some are proud that they were not fooled by George. The question arises as why they are still involving themselved in a 'false religion' if they are/were not deceived. Pride hinders them from admitting that they were and are wrong; an indication of 'fake' repentance.

It still 'feels' the same as before. There still is a 'party line' and people are close minded to considering another perspective. The scriptures are still being twisted to fit their purpose, and the flock (for the most part) is mesmerized by those who are the 'talkers'.

It is very grievous to see it all happening all over again.

Lord bless,
Marcia

[editor]

It still 'feels' the same as before. There still is a 'party line' and people are close minded to considering another perspective. The scriptures are still being twisted to fit their purpose, and the flock (for the most part) is mesmerized by those who are the 'talkers'.

It is very grievous to see it all happening all over again.

Lord bless,
Marcia

I believe this is called bondage and darkness in the Bible.  Sounds like a true Testimony, not unlike the "Testimony to Jesus," that George and his servants taught us.

Yep, it's a "new work," all right.   Poor dumb bastards...

Brent

[matthew r. sciaini]

Brent:

I think that it is not a good idea to refer to people, however deceived, as "bastards".  

Matt Sciaini  

[Joe Sperling]

I agree. They are not bastards, they are dumb asses.
(as in the book of Numbers)

[sfortescue]

I have to assume that you mean by that that Balaam was riding the prophet.

As for calling people names:

Matthew 7:12
Therefore all things whatsoever ye would that men should do to you, do ye even so to them: for this is the law and the prophets.

Although, the innuendo that they lack sense and are stubborn does seem accurate.

[M2]

Those who did not 'fully' submit to the system before GGs excomm.. are proud that they were right after all. Now they have a difficult time seeing that they were/are involved in a false religion, because they never fully participated in it before. This is the sin of pride as they are resting on their laurels (Stephen, correct expression??). One person listed to me how he/she had done/not done this and that to prove his/her point. I reminded him/her of the parable of the Pharisee and the publican... 'The Pharisee prayed thus to himself...
Professing to be wise they become fools...

quote from Mark C:
It's a good thing I didn't go the Pharisee route and claim I was really performing, for that's what hardens the conscience to Jesus knock at our door.

[Eulaha L. Long]

How about knuckle-heads?  Ok, ok, I'll stop..lol

[jackhutchinson]

Marcia,

Very good point.  I, too, have heard people brag to me about how they didn't submit to such and such an edict throughout the years, and it bugs me too.  I have to wonder, why didn't this same person tell me way back then that submitting to such and such and edict was so foolish?  Why did it take so long for them to openly tell me they weren't going to submit?

There was one dumb thing I didn't do (addressing GG and the leaders as "brother...").  As I look back I wish I had asked the leaders why they had no titles yet upon GG's command they insisted on a title.  Why didn't I?  It didn't even occur to me to ask that.  I was far too influenced by GG's system to rock the boat.  Even if I had asked I would have either accepted the answer and continued on in my darkness or I would have conformed against my gut feeling.  In other words, I have nothing to brag about.

Some have even told me that they read Churches that Abuse when it first came out, yet they stayed all those years.  Why?  Because they were deceived so profoundly that they didn't recognize the truth when they read it or they chose to stay in the darkness.  Either way, they have no bragging rights.  In fact, none of us do.  All we can say is, "Don't do what I did!"

Jack

[Pierwalk]

Hi,

The assembly for many of us was a blessing and a curse. As a group we grew in the Lord in many real and tangible ways. The assembly brought us together and caused us to grow spiritually in prayer, evangelism and basic Bible study. We were filled and consumed with the desire to serve the Lord in the totality of our being and resources. Yet, what I saw in the pitfalls of George's dictatorial style ( his later sins being that much more awful ), some of his biblical absurdities and the blindness of the leading brothers caused me to follow the Lord out of "the assembly"  20 years ago to a more balanced and profitable faith.

Jesus greatest path of opposition often came from the Pharisee's who thought they "knew God's will" and were specially set apart. Sound familiar. I was shunned by Pharisee's in leadership who 10 years later figured out what I already knew. In the same way I saw the name of a brother here who recently came out of the fellowship on this BB. This brother was probably sincere in his attitudes about me and others that followed but....... "he was sincerely WRONG" all of these years. The bottom line for me is simple........ seek forgiveness and restitution for those coming out and still to come out of the shadow of the assembly’s darkness.

We who have been brought out of our various fellowships in the assembly cannot yield or compromise the truth. God will not be mocked. George is finished and Tim is delusional if he continues to perpetuate the idea that it will all be ok..... for him, David, George and their empire.

That part of our struggle is over.......... The leading bothers who remain should consider the plight of Humpty Dumpty  ....... "all the kings hourses and all the kings men couldn't put Humpty togeter again".

Both sides ( those who stayed and those who left ) have been profoundly hurt by George, Tim and the fallacy of the assembly machine. That being said. We must move on.

Jesus now commands us to love one another from these broken fellowships and broken lives. He commands us to pray and encourage our former enemies by using the spiritual tools that we did learn in the assembly. Seek on a personal level to restore and bring to light, friendship and fellowship all that were called out 20 years, 10 years or even today.  Without love we have and are nothing. We can all end the journey well in God's triumph and joy....... loving and serving Him together…….. in spirit in ……..whatever church God calls us to.

Let's labor for what is really important in each others lives. Only those who really spent time in the assembly can understand what it like to be in "the city of light and life" one day and set apart the next. Lets continue to fight the good fight of our faith. I was attracted to the part of the assembly that showed me Jesus. That part of the fellowship I will always cherish.
 
Lord Bless.........

[M2]

Some have even told me that they read Churches that Abuse when it first came out, yet they stayed all those years.  Why?  Because they were deceived so profoundly that they didn't recognize the truth when they read it or they chose to stay in the darkness.  Either way, they have no bragging rights.  In fact, none of us do.  All we can say is, "Don't do what I did!"

This is important as well. Recently I was reminded (and I vaguely remember a brother telling me this years ago when he visited in my home) of this story. A bunch of brothers (3-4) lived in a "brother's training home" run by an LB/worker family. For some reason or another they(the brothers, not the household) were reading a book about cults. They concluded that our, the Ottawa, assembly is a cult. This was at least 10 years ago. Instead of leaving and warning the rest of us, they chose to stay in order to 'help' those that were still in fellowship. At least one of them who stayed helped us indeed: to fall in step, and to toe the line, and to conform to 'the party line'. He was very zealous in his service. Now, I have left for conscience sake, believing that the assembly system is a false religious system (I have called it a cult on the BB which they read and were offended at). They have labelled me as being divisive for calling their precious assembly a cult/false religion. Since when does 'calling someone' a name make one divisive. It was labelled as a cult as many as 10 years ago, but people are now denying that we were cult-like in any way.

Marcia

[Mark C.]

Hi Everyone!
  Very interesting conversation here.
    Pierwalk posts some very thoughtful and balanced thinking that reveals he has been out for some time and has been able to see the need for clarity re. the errors of the Assembly, but also that we must remember to be compassionate with those who don't see so clearly yet.
   There is a warning that we must heed in our loving intentions to see recovery and that is from those who are not interested in the truth or in serving God.  There are those present and exmembers who staunchly defend the system against any entreaty and who turn and attack those who wish to help them.  I have been bitten by some of these snakes, as have many others here.
    The discussion Pierwalk raises about what is "good" and what was "bad" from our past is a very difficult one for those who have just left.  I am reminded of a statement re. a present Assembly member who offers that, (something to the effect), GG preached the Word and consequently God was in it, even if GG was off in his behavior.
    It takes only a little poison to wreck an otherwise good well, and the mix of good and bad in the Assembly still came out to toxic faith for all of us.  JW's have Bible Studies and are diligent "witnessers", but we hardly would find these good reasons to suggest that JW's were somewhat good in their "Christianity".  I know, the Assembly did have true Christians in it and one could hear the Gospel from time to time, but the practical effect of GG's false holiness message, etc., was to twist that message in our own lives.
     While good morality and discipline have been said to be positives for many who entered the Assembly system it actually produced those who were unable to be strong as individual Christians.  
    For the ones' who are just now considering what is "baby" and what is "bathwater" there needs to be some careful evaluation and a thorough cleansing from the toxicity that infected all Assembly teaching and practices.  This can not be done from inside a current meeting of even reformed Assemblyites and will require some outside help.
    One thing is for sure we have a Great Physcian who loves all of us very much and in His great mercy he judged the Asssembly; not just to bring it down, but to set us on the right road of spiritual well being.
                                          God Bless,  Mark C.

[Pierwalk]

Hi Mark,

I agree with your assessment that,” there needs to be some careful evaluation and a thorough cleansing from the toxicity that infected all Assembly teaching and practices.  This can not be done from inside a current meeting of even reformed Assemblyites and will require some outside help.”

Many of the “Saints” including myself when they come out of the assembly are not normal or balanced in their Christian faith. George’s teachings never truly understood the grace of God but focused on duty, obedience and sacrifice for the community. Teachings that profited George in his manipulation of the “Saints” to his agenda of greatness.

It takes time to regain or for some to gain a balanced perspective of the Lord after years of assembly indoctrination. It really is sad to say but true.

You must separate from the assembly to let the real truths of Christian service, grace and Gods calling become clear to you from the Master Himself.

George’s lifework and testimony is shattered because he ultimately used the assembly for his own goals and agenda. If the Lord had truly been the focus and force behind the ministries of the assemblies they would not have collapsed like a row of dominos at the revelation of Georges sins etc.

If you are in the assembly …… get out…….. you will experience and find freedom, joy and a love for the Lord that is unknown to those still clinging to the mantle of this fallen preacher.

Many of you may think that George was a great man of God, gifted, visionary, dynamic etc., etc. because he perpetuated that myth….. and we wanted to believe it. But I can tell you that I have met so many other true men of God that are...... IN FACT ………… what George was pretending to be.

Jesus is the head of His church........ follow Him.

Consider 2 Corinthians 6:17,18

17           Therefore
   “Come out from among them
   And be separate, says the Lord.
   Do not touch what is unclean,
   And I will receive you.”

18   “I will be a Father to you,
   And you shall be My sons and daughters,
   Says the LORD Almighty.”

Lord Bless

[vernecarty]

.

George’s lifework and testimony is shattered because he ultimately used the assembly for his own goals and agenda. If the Lord had truly been the focus and force behind the ministries of the assemblies they would not have collapsed like a row of dominos at the revelation of Georges sins etc.

If you are in the assembly …… get out…….. you will experience and find freedom, joy and a love for the Lord that is unknown to those still clinging to the mantle of this fallen preacher.

Many of you may think that George was a great man of God, gifted, visionary, dynamic etc., etc. because he perpetuated that myth….. and we wanted to believe it. But I can tell you that I have met so many other true men of God that are...... IN FACT ………… what George was pretending to be.

No one can deny that the man George Geftakys displayed remarkable spiritual power. No one who knows anything about the man's history and manner of life is prepared tp argue that he was energized by the Spirit of the living God.
 I sometimes get the impression in reading about the assemblies and the events surrounding them and the apostate George Geftakys that we still don't fathom the depth of the horror that transpired. The assemblies were not ever a work of the Spirit of God. We will get nowhere until we admit who and what this evil man was , viz. a servant and instrument of the Wicked One.
Verne

[M2]

Someone wrote this to me today:

"I don't think that we are spiritually deceived because of our association with George. Even of the Pharisees the Lord said to do as they say and not as they do."

I feel like I'm going round in circles with this individual, so I appreciate your comments.

Lord bless,
Marcia