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Author Topic: Racism in the Assembly  (Read 6818 times)
jackhutchinson
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« on: September 29, 2003, 04:07:37 am »

Since this topic keeps coming up on another thread I thought I'd start this new one.  I for one (and others too, I'm sure) would like to know of incidents where the leaders expressed racist attitudes.  As I stated before, I've only personally heard one leader make racist comments, and that was David (surprise, surprise).  There is a good article on the subject on the Rick Ross site:

http://www.rickross.com/reference/assembly/assembly34.html

Jack
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vernecarty
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« Reply #1 on: September 29, 2003, 07:21:50 am »

While it is true that in some assemblies the ugliness of racism was not as overt as others, the record clearly shows that George Geftakys and his immediate family as well as a number of workers in his inner circle believed, espoused, and in a number of documented cases enforced racially dicsriminatory and bigoted conduct. It is understandable how our white bretheren would not be as aware of this as were those of us who were affected by this kind of behaviour, but the instances of this kind of conduct were numerous enough that anybody paying attention could not help but notice. I early decided I would under no circumstance raise children in any assembly. I want to give others an opoortunity to share their own experiences as my own position is well-known. I will mention one other instance of Ing Ling's having relayed to him through the Springfield leadership, George's vile and racist remark to that man to "find himself a Chinese wife".
Despite how long  Karen was with the vile apostate, apparently she had enough confidence to make her own decision with regard to a husband. There were many who failed this test and are now wondering what might have been. Take another look at the Schockley-esque and profoundly ignorant bilge Dan Notti spouted to Clarence about Blacks, and Timothy Geftakys moronic musings about the subject. Where do you think they got that hogwash? Dan Notti of all people seems to be totally consumed with self-loathing and in  total denial regarding his own racial  ancestry. What a pitiful, pathetic and contemptible creature he is! Some have criticised me for stating that I believe these men knew exactly what kind of evil and depraved man George Geftakys was for years and did nothing about it. Can anyone observing the role Dan Notti played and the absolute confidence George had in him to sanction every one of his evil deeds have any doubt that this wolf stands first in line when it comes to culpability of those around George Geftakys?  The verse about millstones around the neck applies to Mr. Dan Notti prototypically! Watch his miserable end. These are people many of you considered to be Godly??!!! God help us!!
Make no mistake about it. Whether you were obsevervant enough to detect it or not, George Geftakys and many of the people around him were incorrigible racists and bigots. Trips to Africa notwithstanding.
Verne
p.s it was only later I understood why that thug Dan (Snotty) Notti, rudely interrupted a conversation I was having during my first visit to Fullerton and grabbed my shoulders and pushed me towards a chair. My first instinct was to break both his wrists for his effrontery. I excercised restaint, as every good warrior always does. I would have had a difficlut time explaining myself otherwise. He never knew how close he came to being very seriously injured. It is my understaning that he was thuggish with many...
I also saw this unbeliveable buffoon doing a step 'n fetchit routine on a later visit to Fullerton at Dan Mather's home and which I imagined was supposed to faze me as I was the only Black person there. I just stared at him in total disbelief. I was starting to wonder...
Verne
« Last Edit: September 29, 2003, 08:47:21 pm by vernecarty » Logged
M2
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« Reply #2 on: September 29, 2003, 09:23:02 pm »

Prejudices on the basis of race, personality, following the party line etc. ought not to be. Granted that some may fail, but the picture that emerges is that it was a matter of assembly policy. Many individuals' future was determined by the counsel they received from a prejudiced perspective; marriage being one of them, being 'sent' to another locality being another and so on and so forth. The lives of many were affected and it is definitely not a 'small' matter.

Marcia
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psalm51
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« Reply #3 on: September 30, 2003, 05:58:44 am »

Verne and all,
I think it is very obvious that racism was an issue in the assemblies. This should come as no surprise to anyone here considering the fact that racism is still very much alive and well in the USA. I see it on a weekly basis at my job. It is ugly and insidious. But frankly, I find the name-calling and "thug"-bashing on this thread to be pretty ugly also. The men in question behaved very badly but why resort to that level yourself? I, for one, could do without all the caustic, hate-filled, and verbose rhetoric.
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vernecarty
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« Reply #4 on: September 30, 2003, 09:57:50 am »

Verne and all,
I think it is very obvious that racism was an issue in the assemblies. This should come as no surprise to anyone here considering the fact that racism is still very much alive and well in the USA. I see it on a weekly basis at my job. It is ugly and insidious. But frankly, I find the name-calling and "thug"-bashing on this thread to be pretty ugly also. The men in question behaved very badly but why resort to that level yourself? I, for one, could do without all the caustic, hate-filled, and verbose rhetoric.

Pat I agree. The language is ugly and that is entirely by design(You will note a departure from even my usual sharp rhetorical style). However, so is the topic. The feeling that you get when you read the words I quite deliberately wrote? The same kind of feeling evoked in those subjected to this kind of conduct. While I honestly do not want to offend or alienate, I don't know any other way to describe these kinds of people and your reaction is exactly what I hoped to evoke, sorry to be so brutal...I am sure of one thing, few, if any spoke to the likes of Dan Notti and David Geftakys the way I wrote...what a pity! Might they have behaved differently if they had heard such strong rebuke from those witnessing their offensive behaviour? Many chose silence, and perhaps some even agreed! did they not? There are some things I have not disclosed...yet...perhaps never will...why bother? God reigns!
Verne
p.s most so-called workers and leading brothers cannot  look Black folks in the eye on this sad issue and they all know it. Wayne is one of the very few...
« Last Edit: September 30, 2003, 07:37:48 pm by vernecarty » Logged
vernecarty
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« Reply #5 on: September 30, 2003, 11:23:46 pm »

Matt was right about one thing. Not all leading brothers should be subject to the kind of withering indictment I have subjected most of them to. I certainly do not need to say this for Wayne Matthew's benefit as he already knows how I regard him, but both he and Paul Hohulin are men to whom I owe a great debt of love for their faithfulness and friendship over the years. Just thought I needed to say that. I love you guys! There were some other really great friendhips that got eaten up by the "work". I had the most fun with guys like Gary Mau and Tom Knox. What riotous times we would have! I never laughed so hard as when I was with those two...Of course when you become a worker all of that changes... Smiley Gary if you are out there give me a call...
Verne
p.s. The folk in Africa don't ask about George Geftakys, they ask about their beloved brother Wayne Matthews...interesting no...?
« Last Edit: October 01, 2003, 12:05:50 am by vernecarty » Logged
mithrandir
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« Reply #6 on: October 01, 2003, 12:21:32 am »

I said something under the thread "Existing Assemblies" that I want to repeat here.  Yes, I was hurt by the racism of the Assembly leaders.  Yes, I am angry about it.  But I want to remind everyone - including those who were hurt by the racism and who are angry about it - that we must not descend to an "us against them" mentality.  Colossians 3 clearly states that all of us who have received Christ have a new identity, "in which there is no Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all."  The old identities we had were totally incapable of getting us to Heaven, because they were merely different flavors of fallen humanity.  

I appreciate the willingness of many of you out there to empathize with the suffering of those of us who suffered racism in the Assemblies.  I want to remind us all that because George and many of his leaders embraced a wide variety of evils, it should not surprise anyone that racism was one of the things they embraced.  But it was by no means the only thing.  I was hurt by racism - but I was not the spouse of one of the wife-beating husbands (for a couple of obvious reasons!).  And there are serious things that others suffered that I did not suffer.  We need to be willing to understand and support each person who has been hurt, harassed, molested or in any way pained by George and his gang.  I need to look beyond my particular grievances to see how you all were hurt by Geftakysism.

Lastly, I feel like I'm in the cleanup stage of the aftermath of a really bad tornado or earthquake.  I am sure that many of you feel this way as well.  We cannot excuse those who did wrong as part of the Geftakys assemblies.  But we will sooner or later need to figure out how to live according to the Sermon on the Mount, how to love our enemies, how to pray for the reconciliation of wrongdoers who have done us wrong.  That time may not yet be, but it is a goal to work toward.

mithrandir
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vernecarty
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« Reply #7 on: October 01, 2003, 04:44:42 pm »

I said something under the thread "Existing Assemblies" that I want to repeat here.  Yes, I was hurt by the racism of the Assembly leaders.  Yes, I am angry about it.  But I want to remind everyone - including those who were hurt by the racism and who are angry about it - that we must not descend to an "us against them" mentality.  Colossians 3 clearly states that all of us who have received Christ have a new identity, "in which there is no Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave and freeman, but Christ is all, and in all."  The old identities we had were totally incapable of getting us to Heaven, because they were merely different flavors of fallen humanity.  

I appreciate the willingness of many of you out there to empathize with the suffering of those of us who suffered racism in the Assemblies.  I want to remind us all that because George and many of his leaders embraced a wide variety of evils, it should not surprise anyone that racism was one of the things they embraced.  But it was by no means the only thing.  I was hurt by racism - but I was not the spouse of one of the wife-beating husbands (for a couple of obvious reasons!).  And there are serious things that others suffered that I did not suffer.  We need to be willing to understand and support each person who has been hurt, harassed, molested or in any way pained by George and his gang.  I need to look beyond my particular grievances to see how you all were hurt by Geftakysism.

Lastly, I feel like I'm in the cleanup stage of the aftermath of a really bad tornado or earthquake.  I am sure that many of you feel this way as well.  We cannot excuse those who did wrong as part of the Geftakys assemblies.  But we will sooner or later need to figure out how to live according to the Sermon on the Mount, how to love our enemies, how to pray for the reconciliation of wrongdoers who have done us wrong.  That time may not yet be, but it is a goal to work toward.

mithrandir

I have to say a hearty amen to this post. As angry as the denial of some ignoramuses on this topic makes me, at some point those of us who truly believe the truth of the gospel will have to live it! My only regret is that among all the dear friends I had in the assemblies, the vast majority fo whom, ironically were white, there were not many more like Paul who withstood even Peter to the face "because he was be blamed". Praise God some did!
It is important also for us to keep in mind that the great indictment we have seen from so many is not merely a display of unforgiveness and bitterness as some would have us to believe. What we have been seeing and what indeed as been absolutely necessary is the harshest of indictments of a truly evil system!
That notwithstanding, I have been encouraged these days to think of things that are lovely. I am deeply grateful to God for the remarkable friendships I formed over many years in practically every single assembly in the Midwest and in many other places, some of these dear friends I had even forgotten about( right Marcia?).
Witness the great fun and fellowship there is even on a BB like this if you know how to read properly. The rumors that we are all sourpusses here is greatly exagerated.
I do agree with the above post though. For those of us who have been called to serve God and care for his flock, there must ever be a careful balance maintained between standing for the truth of God, and displaying the compassion, humility, and love that uniquely distinguishes the Son of God from all other men. In this we admittedly often fail, particularly when shamed by the terrible inaction we saw on the part of the former assembly leadership.
That notwithstanding, I have been greatly blessed, encouraged, corrected, instructed and edified by the wonderful posting company on this  BB. God reigns!
Verne
« Last Edit: October 01, 2003, 04:49:29 pm by vernecarty » Logged
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