Suicide and the Religious Mind

[David Mauldin]

   Our generation has been subject to countless suicide bombers, highjackers etc... During the 1960-70s nightly newscast  audiences wittnessed Bhuddist monks who would ignite themselves on fire in prostest to the Viet Nam War.  The average U.S. American has very little understanding as to why a person would end their own lives so readily.  Yet the former Geftakys member may have some idea of "Transcendant Hope" and almost all Christians have experienced the longing to "  understand it farther along..."   While working in the medical proffession it was very common to hear people say  " I just want to die and and go be with the Lord!"  some, in their depression and hoplessness,  seemed to help along  the "appointed day" of their departure.  When reading the lives of certain Christian martyrs one cannot help but see an suicidal mentality.  For example Jim Eliott, Nate Saint and others decided to contact a group of indigenous peoples who were known for their murderous violence towards all outsiders.  Many people warned these missionarrys "These people will kill you...."  Yet despite warnings they voluntarily subjected themselves to obvious death!  When reading Jim Eliotts journal we find that he was psychologicly/spiritualy prepared for this event. "I believe the Lord is calling me to (Martyrdom) ..." Herein rest a psychosis of religious "faith"  The idea that death is better than life. Jim Eliott (and others) left his wife and daughter to "go be with the Lord!"  And he is to be commended for this?   I welcome any comment s!

[jackhutchinson]

Dave,

I think there are 4 different kinds of people you described.

1) The suicide bombers:  They are not martyrs, but people who intentionally kill civilians in order to make a statement (the fact that they die in the process simply saves us the trouble of having to prosecute them to bring them to justice).  Their actions only serve to harm others.  Their actions don't actually further their cause or win new converts to their cause.  Their irrational actions are a result of blind religious zeal.

2) The monks:  They killed themselves in order to make a statement.    While I'm glad the monks chose not to harm others in the process, I'm afraid that their actions did not actually accomplish anything.  I haven't heard of any tyranny being stopped because someone lit themselves on fire.  It usually takes a war.  Ghandi did accomplish this without a war, but he didn't simply light himself on fire.  I'm no expert on Ghandi, but I do think he was persuasive on many levels.  He actually accomplished his goal.

3) Christians who would rather die than suffer:  Many people kill themselves while they are suffering - not just religious people (athiests and agnostics just have different ideas about what awaits them after they die).  Paul did say that it is better to be with the Lord than to remain in this world (if heaven is no better than this world then I want my money back!).  If I were suffering horribly I could see myself articulating my desire to be delivered from my suffering.  I'm not saying it would be the wisest thing to say, but I know that I am a weak, fallible human being.  I am not willing to endorse people's attempts to hasten the day of their departure, but I think we say and think many things when we are in the midst of suffering that we would not entertain otherwise.  I hope that the assurance of spending eternity in heaven would enable me ENDURE suffering when it comes my way instead of trying to ESCAPE it before God's time.

4) Jim Elliiot and his associates:  Their goal was not martyrdom.  They wanted to reach the Aucas with the gospel.  Martyrdom was simply a real RISK they took in the process of accomplishing their goal.  They knew that if they were successful in reaching the Aucas with the gospel the Aucas would eternally benefit.  They had centuries of church history that showed that in many cases people received eternal hope as a result of the gospel brought to them by missionaries who were willing to make the ultimate sacrifice IF necessary.  I don't think this is unhealthy.  This was a rational thought process - not blind religious zeal.  I do think that a person really needs to make that kind of decision thoughtfully and prayerfully, though.

Our soldiers RISK their lives by joining the military in order to bring political freedom to those who have yet to enjoy it and to protect the freedom that you and I already enjoy (by this I am not condoning every single military action the US has taken).  These men and women are not suicidal or foolish.  They know that freedom costs something and they are willing to RISK having to pay the ultimate price for it (our revolutionaries had the same perspective).  I don't think this is unhealthy, and I imagine you would agree.

I'm sure there are irrosponsible Christians with a romantic idea of what it means to be a martyr, and I've been guilty of that myself.  I've read that in the early church the anniversaries of the deaths of martyrs were celebrated instead of birthdays (too bad they couldn't cash in on the presents).  Yet, seeking martyrdom or speaking romanticallly about how glorious it would be to be martyred was frowned upon.  I can't remember the name, but there was a woman who, in the midst of torture, threw herself into the fire instead of waiting for the Romans to throw her in.  It caused a huge controversy.  Some called her a coward for ending her life early (even if only by a few minutes) and some called her a martyr since she was about to die anyway.  I'm not sure where I stand on that, but it is something worthy of contemplation.  Each person will give their own account before the Lord  for these kinds of choices.

That's my take.

Jack

[David Mauldin]

Jack, All four kinds of people that I described had one thing in common, "A transcendant Hope"  The belief that things will be better in the next life.  Jim Eliott and his friends had plenty of options left open to them.  Protection, assistance yet they chose to forgo them.  Why?  Because of the mindset. Recently the mother of  a friend of mine died from Lou Gerigs disease.  She suffered three years before finally she died. (The average people live with this disease is about 6 years.)  Yet Stephen Hawking has had the disease over 40 years?  Why?  I believe it has everything to do with his attitude. He doesn't want to die.  He is too busy living!

[jackhutchinson]

Dave,

Yes, they all had a "transcendant hope", but some used it rationally and others did not.  Having eternal hope is not wrong or unhealthy.  It's what one does with it that makes a difference.  It's one thing to make an effort to die, and it's another thing to RISK one's own life in order to benefit others in tangible ways.  A "transcendant hope" makes suffering in this life bearable for many.  Others use it as an reason to end their suffering.

Romans 8 speaks of suffering now with the assurance that we will enjoy eternity.  Paul says in Philippians that while it is better to be with the Lord, he knew that it was God's will for him to suffer a little while longer in order to be a blessing to Christians.  I make these references to show that the Bible does not support the irrational use of eternal hope.

Before I knew Christ (and when I was deceived in the Assembly), I was always fearful of what would happen to me when I died.  Now that I have eternal hope I can really live.  I win both ways.  I can enjoy life now (in my newly rediscovered freedom in Christ) and I will enjoy eternity when I die.  I think I got a good deal going here!

Jack

[David Mauldin]

Jack, I would agree that is a healthy way to look at it but the reality is just as I was explaining.  The ground between healthy and unhealthy  overlapps everywhere we look or choose NOT to. Looking carefully at Jim Eliott do you see a happy well contented individual?  or a
person excrusiatingly looking for purpose and meaning to life?

[jackhutchinson]

Dave,

I'm glad we agree that there is a healthy way to look at this issue.  Wouldn't you say, though, that there are people who in reality have a healthy perspective regardiing eternal hope?  Billy Graham seems to be one of those people in my opinion.  I'm sure there are more.

Jack

[David Mauldin]

Yes, I most definitly would!

[jackhutchinson]

It's been awhile since I've read Elizabeth Elliott's books about her husband, so maybe I would see things differently if I read them now.  However, as I think back I see a man who had a strong desire to preach the gospel.  He was a practical joker who frowned upon the stifled idea of holiness the Brethren leaders in his assembly had adopted.  He thought life should be enjoyed.  He also went against the grain of the leadership regarding his decision to go to South America (it was an ongoing controversy in his assembly).  He did use very militaristic language regarding his relationship with the Lord, but the underlying attitude that came across in his journals is that he served out of desire and love - not fear.  Overall I think that he was a man who truly loved life, but was willing to RISK it for the benefit of others.  Perhaps the fact that he wrote of martyrdom was not due to an obsession with death, but as a result of contemplating the risk he would have to take in order to accomplish his goal of preaching the gospel to the Aucas.

Jack

[Mark Kisla]

Years ago Elizabeth Elliot spoke at Wheaton college. I was told that at the end of her testimony she introduced the man responsible for her husbands death, he had received Christ.
I think the diference between tempting God with a death wish and yeilding your life for Gods use is what life (fruit) was born out of your death.

[jackhutchinson]

You said it.  Reading that sent chills up my spine.  The gospel brings reconciliation between wretched sinners and a holy God.  It also brings reconciliation between sinners that had previously been at odds with one another.

Jack

[Joe Sperling]

I remember reading a biography of Jim Elliot and
that after his death they found he had huge prayer
lists filled with names of people that he carried with
him. Apparently whenever he had a moment he would
pull out the list and pray for people. He was also
very fond of a poet name Robert Service. JIm Elliot was
truly a remarkable person.

--Joe

[vernecarty]

Jack, I would agree that is a healthy way to look at it but the reality is just as I was explaining.  The ground between healthy and unhealthy  overlapps everywhere we look or choose NOT to. Looking carefully at Jim Eliott do you see a happy well contented individual?  or a
person excrusiatingly looking for purpose and meaning to life?

Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends
John 15:13
Hi Dave:
Do you think the Lord meant this literally or figuratively?
Verne