real people (us), legal people (corporations), and Christianity

[vernecarty]

I knew that didn't sound right.  It's John Singleton.  John Newton was a good guy too once Christ got ahold of him and he gave up that slave business.  

Oops! Freudian slip?  
I stand corrected.

P.S.:  To the original point, I wasn't happy about Rush's latest divorse either.  It demonstrates to me a disconnect between the message and the man.

The charge of hypocrisy has always been the achilles heel of outspoken conservatives, and sadly, the accusers have frequently made it stick; whether you are talking about a Bob Barr, a Newt Gingrich or a Bob Bennet. This is why I think it is so dangerous to tie the gospel of Jesus Christ to a political point of view.
Even men in the ministry today are being decimated and miserably failing to adorn the doctrine.
I still remember the first time I suddenly became convinced practically, of the truth of the gospel and what a wonderful thing it was. It is a voyage of discovery that I think everyone who is redeemed ultimately makes and it is the discovery that even though we sometimes still struggle with our weaknesses, we realise that Christ has truly broken the power of sin in our lives.
Say what you will, there is no denying the power of a life of holiness. This is a reality that is humanly impossible to counterfeit and in my view is the only genuine test of those who are truly born of the Spirit...gives me goose-bumps just thinking about what Christ has done for us....
It makes you wonder seeing people who glibly name the name of Christ yet have failed to depart from iniquity...these are certainly troubled times...

Verne

[summer007]

Verne, (I know a little off subject) I was wondering, you being so bright, how did you get mixed up/taken in with the Assembly? Could it have been the elitist attitudes you encountered?  You may have answered this in previous posts. (I know the Assembly is a lifetime away for most )   Summer

[vernecarty]

Verne, (I know a little off subject) I was wondering, you being so bright, how did you get mixed up/taken in with the Assembly? Could it have been the elitist attitudes you encountered?  You may have answered this in previous posts. (I know the Assembly is a lifetime away for most )   Summer

I am quite embarrassed Summer thinking about that period.
I was a newly minted graduate student at U of I and understandably feeling a bit lonely and lost on a huge campus when I met the then Sondra Quinlan of the SWTE web site who invited me out to a Bible study.
As was the case with so many who got involved in the assemblies, the thing that kept us there for so long were the friendships we formed. At the time the group in Champaign was traveling to meet in Tuscola every Sunday and there were some very close friendships formed with a number of families there.
I must say that apart from the influence of George Geftakys, I believed I experienced real spiritual growth many of those years and benefited from the godly example of several men in that gathering such as Mike Houk. Jim McCumber and others.
I too was initially impressed with Geftakys for he was a master psychologist and had an uncanny ability to tap into the desire of those truly desiring to plumb spiritual depths.
Unlike the former Ms Quinlan, now Ms Jamieson, I have come to see that while there were many sincere and devoted Christians involved in gatherings associated with Geftakys, he himself was a profoundly wicked man and in my view, the best intentions of those around him notwithstanding, was never a man called and annointed by God. It is to my own shame and spritual dullness that it took me as long as I did to see that I was involved in at best an abusive and corrupt system and at worst a full-blown cult. I have written about this at length in the past and have in my own mind concluded that the real failure of that era was that of the men around George Geftakys, especially those in Fullerton, who knowing exactly what kind of man he was,  miserably failed to excercise their God-given authority to stand for righteousnes, whatever the cost, and so permitted him to deeply damage the physical and spiritual well-being of hundreds of innocent people. I hope that little summary helps Summer!
Verne

[dhalitsky]

to VerneCarty

I gotta say I agree with you pretty much.

I went to HS on 110th between 5th and Lenox in NYC; they called that street the Golden Fringe because it was where uptown and downtown met - Harlem and the Big White Apple.  

This school had the center in it run by Kenneth Clark, whose name you might know.
It's principal was Mabel Smythe, a black woman of great dignity and decency.

I do not believe that Mr. Clark or Ms. Smythe would countenace what goes on today.

On the other hand, having driven a cab in all neighborhoods in NYC from 1968-70 (including the feared BedStuy, Brownsville, and the South Bronx of Fort Apache fame), I do not think that you can discount the easy money of drugs as another contributing factor to the decline of the black inner city social fabric.

This is one of the reasons I have not aged out of my youthful left-of-liberal political positions.  It is WELL-KNOWN that the government CANNOT stop the drug-flow, at least not from South America, because it is drugs that allows S American nations to make their loan payment to CITI corp and other NY banks, which would have a hard time otherwise.

ci-inc
PS - the school building is now kind of a halfway-house/prison facility - a sad commentary on NYC .

[vernecarty]

to VerneCarty

I gotta say I agree with you pretty much.

I went to HS on 110th between 5th and Lenox in NYC; they called that street the Golden Fringe because it was where uptown and downtown met - Harlem and the Big White Apple.  

This school had the center in it run by Kenneth Clark, whose name you might know.
It's principal was Mabel Smythe, a black woman of great dignity and decency.

I do not believe that Mr. Clark or Ms. Smythe would countenace what goes on today.

On the other hand, having driven a cab in all neighborhoods in NYC from 1968-70 (including the feared BedStuy, Brownsville, and the South Bronx of Fort Apache fame), I do not think that you can discount the easy money of drugs as another contributing factor to the decline of the black inner city social fabric.

This is one of the reasons I have not aged out of my youthful left-of-liberal political positions.  It is WELL-KNOWN that the government CANNOT stop the drug-flow, at least not from South America, because it is drugs that allows S American nations to make their loan payment to CITI corp and other NY banks, which would have a hard time otherwise.

ci-inc
PS - the school building is now kind of a halfway-house/prison facility - a sad commentary on NYC .

The drugs are a huge problem. Personally I think the psychic in additional to organic damage done to themselves (and others) by abusers is virtually impossible to repair in this life.  I think we have to catch young people before they get caught. I don't know if you rember Allen Bloom's book of a few years ago The Closing of the American Mind in which he talked about invariably being able to spot kids in the college classroom who had dabbled in drug use.
It has to be obvious to any but the most obtuse observer that the so-called war on drugs is anything but. The issue of balance of trade payments  had frankly never occurred to me but makes perfect sense (I can already see the conspiracy nay-sayers screaming "foul!"). Obviously the viability of the trade depends on the money being effectively laundered and by all appearances that is happening at the highest levels.
It seems as if so many people have still not figured out the age-old rubric of "follow the money".
It is the exact same reason that opium is now even more plentiful in and around Afghanistan than when the Taliban were in charge...
Verne

[Oscar]

Howdy,

Interesting discussion.

I'm glad to see that we are tolerant here:  We believe ALL conspiracy theories.    

Well, maybe not quite all.


I am interested in Halitsky's idea though:

"This is one of the reasons I have not aged out of my youthful left-of-liberal political positions.  It is WELL-KNOWN that the government CANNOT stop the drug-flow, at least not from South America, because it is drugs that allows S American nations to make their loan payment to CITI corp and other NY banks, which would have a hard time otherwise."

He claims that it is a "well known fact" that the reason that the drug trade goes on is that it allows S American countries to make their loan payments to big US financial institutions.

So, a couple of questions come to mind:

1. How do you know this?  

2. What are the amounts paid, and who pays them?

3. How does this apply to countries like Argentina, Chile, Brazil, Paraguay, Uruguay, and several others who, as far as I know, aren't involved in the drug trade at all?


IMHO, the real problem with the drug trade is that there are millions of people in OUR country who continue to take them.  All the big business in the world has never, in my knowledge, held anyone down and shoved the pills, powders or needles into them.

The crack cocaine of poverty people that we hear of on programs like Cops are just the tip of the iceberg.  Millions of left leaning teachers, businessmen, professors, bureaucrats, artists of various stripes AND lots of kids use billions of dollars of drugs on a regular basis.

If we didn't buy it, no one would grow/make it.

The fact is that no really serious reform is possible because the left, who are the pot smoking residue of the flower children of the 60's, will not allow it to happen!

Several Asian countries have miniscule drug problems.  This is because dealing drugs carries an automatic death penalty.

We could do this, but don't hold your breath.

Uh Oh, here comes some executives from New York financial interests to hold me down and drug me.

Got to get out of here fast.

Thomas Maddux

[dhalitsky]

to TomM -

I haven't mentioned this here at the AB, but I work in the defense industry as a subcontractor dealing with IT.

Sometimes a big software vendor will try to sell the government a package, and they ask us subcontractors to evaluate the package.

So as part of the evaluation, we ask the vendor who its past clients are in government.  And some of them reply:

"We could tell you, but we'd have to kill you right afterwards".

This is the standard joke which is told when a company has done business with one or more of the "3-letter" agencies where all employees need TS if not crypto clearances to work with cetain software.

So in answer to your question re "how do I know", I can only reply:

"I could tell you, but I'd have to kill you right afterwards."

Dave
PS - not really serious here, just kidding you because you're doing again what I respectfully asked you NOT to do - which is to ask me for sourcing in a way that I do not ask you ...

[dhalitsky]

to VerneCarty -

I have previously mentioned here at the AB that I am serious about my desire to start a 3rd party (here in Tennessee where I live) called "The Christian Left".  Purpose of this party is to run candidates in elections for Federal Senators and Representatives, i.e. it is not a silly attempt to run candidates for President.

My traditionalist friends here at the AB say that I am confused about the meaning of Matthew 25:40.  My atheist and agnostic friends kid me about the idea, saying that the party should really be called "The Christians Left" - meaning there ain't too many real Christians left anymore.

But these opposing views have not deterred me.

So, would you happen to know any like-minded people in TN who might be interested in the proposition.  I particularly need to know of some lawyers familiar with the processes required to get such a party formed as an entity and on the ballot legally.

Also, by Christian Left, I mean a group of people who believe that as a matter of Christian principles, their Federal representatives should strive to enact laws that take back for the people the power which the people have more or less given up to the multinational corporations whose only allegiance is neither to ChristJesus nor the UnitedStates, but rather to their own bottom-lines and their shareholders.

Dave
PS - forgive me if I have misread your politics; I am frankly blown-away to find a person of your points-of-view posting to this board.  So maybe it has made me over-hopeful here.

[matthew r. sciaini]

Dave:

It's amazing what kind of a can of worms my comment opened.  First Rush Limbaugh, then a debate on poverty, then trading thoughts on our ever-increasing dependence on government to solve our problems, then a few other byways.

What I meant by "artsy-fartsy" was not meant to be a compliment.  It seemed to me that you were off on a variety of religious and other types of tangents to such an extent that not much more than hot gas was being offered.  But I should have mercy on you even though you are a tad long-winded (your posts, I mean) and are daunting to read, seeing they are solid paragraphs.   I have been off a number of times on this forum and people have not always called me on it.  

I guess

I prefer

bullet points

like this

but without

the bullet

Of course

that probably

goes for

whoever

happens to

be bugging me

at a given moment

and that particular

evening,  it was

YOU.

Please forgive me.  

Matt  

PS.....go ahead and call me "Matt" ...I have put my full name on as my sign in because at one time there was a Matt of another type posting complete garbage and I did not in any way want to be confused with him.

[vernecarty]

to VerneCarty -

I have previously mentioned here at the AB that I am serious about my desire to start a 3rd party (here in Tennessee where I live) called "The Christian Left".  Purpose of this party is to run candidates in elections for Federal Senators and Representatives, i.e. it is not a silly attempt to run candidates for President.

My traditionalist friends here at the AB say that I am confused about the meaning of Matthew 25:40.  My atheist and agnostic friends kid me about the idea, saying that the party should really be called "The Christians Left" - meaning there ain't too many real Christians left anymore.

But these opposing views have not deterred me.

So, would you happen to know any like-minded people in TN who might be interested in the proposition.  I particularly need to know of some lawyers familiar with the processes required to get such a party formed as an entity and on the ballot legally.

Also, by Christian Left, I mean a group of people who believe that as a matter of Christian principles, their Federal representatives should strive to enact laws that take back for the people the power which the people have more or less given up to the multinational corporations whose only allegiance is neither to ChristJesus nor the UnitedStates, but rather to their own bottom-lines and their shareholders.

Dave
PS - forgive me if I have misread your politics; I am frankly blown-away to find a person of your points-of-view posting to this board.  So maybe it has made me over-hopeful here.

I tend to be apollitical Dave. I  believe it is virtually impossible to be a commited Christian and a successful politician. Somone said the art of politics is compromise.
You will find that both current parties will unite to to enure your nascent party goes nowhere. They like the monopoly.  Even with as much dough and popular support Ross Perot once had, he could not pull it off.
Verne

[dhalitsky]

Matt -

No problem.  

My favorite movie line
was spoken by Gene Hackman
in Mississippi Burning.

It went:
"Don't make the mistake
of confusing me
for a whole 'nother person"

Since this is a family boad
I can't tell you what Hackman
was doing as he spoke this line.

But as long as you
don't confuse me
for a whole 'nother person,
I'm sure we'll eventually
become friends

Dave

[dhalitsky]

to vernecarty -

yeah, you're probably right.

but after making some progress in accomplishing
something tangible in this world, I want to do
something which is "not about me" and which
also is "in the face" of the right people.

the voluntary charitable activities which have
been suggested at this Board meet the first,
but not the second criterion.

dave

[vernecarty]

to vernecarty -

yeah, you're probably right.

but after making some progress in accomplishing
something tangible in this world, I want to do
something which is "not about me" and which
also is "in the face" of the right people.

the voluntary charitable activities which have
been suggested at this Board meet the first,
but not the second criterion.

dave

To do good is better than to do evil David so your desire is commendable.
Unlike many of my fellow believers, I am not convinced that everyone who does not profess saving faith in Christ will be condemned to the second death. While they will not be a member of the bride of Christ which is the church, I believe there will be many, who when their works are judged will be found written in the Book of Life. I don't want to be dogmatic about that but I think that is what the great white throne judgment is all about - a judgment for life or death and one's manner of life will determine the outcome.
Tnank God, I do not intend to be at that session. All my transgressions have already been paid for in full.  
Verne

[sfortescue]

Romans 3:23
For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

John 14:6
Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

[dhalitsky]

Hi all here at the AB -

I want to apologize for not posting recently.  I have been in an extremely combative and argumentative frame of mind due to an argument I have been having on another board about how guilt over the Holocaust is being used as a weapon to force people into agreeing with the politics of the Likud party currently in power in Israel.

I don't want to post here in that kind of mood; it would be inappropriate.

Anyway, you're probably all bored to tears by my ramblings.

Best regards
Dave