Tithing/Giving

[M2]

.....
  Teaching people to tithe is false teaching.  I am well aware that many churches do this, especially the (semi) Reformed churches.  They are not, however, alone.  This error comes from looking to the Law of Moses as a guide for Christian living.  The NT standard is 2 Cor. 9:7:  "Let each one of you do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver."  The tenth required of Israel was linked to the possession of the land and blessings from God through good rainfall.  Malachi 3:10. 

There is much more to say on this subject, but this is enough to establish my point. ....

Tom et al,

I am interested in the "much more to say on this subject".

Marcia

[vernecarty]

Started by Marcia | Last post by Marcia 
Quote from: Tom Maddux on June 16, 2003, 11:43:17 pm
.....
  Teaching people to tithe is false teaching.  I am well aware that many churches do this, especially the (semi) Reformed churches.  They are not, however, alone.  This error comes from looking to the Law of Moses as a guide for Christian living.  The NT standard is 2 Cor. 9:7:  "Let each one of you do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver."  The tenth required of Israel was linked to the possession of the land and blessings from God through good rainfall.  Malachi 3:10. 

There is much more to say on this subject, but this is enough to establish my point. ....

 



Tom et al,

I am interested in the "much more to say on this subject".

Marcia

Tom is right on the money with this one. I thought I was a lone voice in this view!!     
Hey Tom have you noticed the vehemence with which some religious people will oppose this viewpoint?
Talk about messin' with people's living!! 
Verne
p.s Man you just gotta just love the simplicity and no-nonsense matter-of-factness with which Tom made that statement - teaching people to tithe is false teaching!

I never had the mettle to put it quite that bluntly. Blunt is good!

Remember how George managed to convince us all that he did not care about the money?
Boy did he have me fooled good!
You will understand quite a bit about what is going on if you follow the money. When I was at CMA we would get a letter from the DS every year exulting and praising us for how much money we were giving (and boy we did give a bunch per capita!) but for years he ignored the repeated appeals of the elders and others in the church to help us with some serious problems we were having. What a slug! 
Verne

[vernecarty]

Hey Folks! Is it just me, or has the atmosphere of the BB improved quite a bit lately even with the "unbeliever" David Maulding back in the thick of things?
There is remarkable tone of civility and out and out general good will doncha think? (except for the lurker who keeps giving me negative points..he! he! he!  )
I don't know all the man's personal struggles and it does not matter, but I gotta say that I really like his honesty...    
Verne

[al Hartman]

If I understand the issue and Tom's & Verne's views of it correctly, IF one believes that tithing is right to do, AND IF he can do it cheerfully and heartily unto the Lord, let him tithe...

BUT, let him not impose such a standard upon his brother for whom also Christ died, because God has not established the tithe as a requirement under grace.

Each of us serves and answers to our Lord individually.  While we have definite responsibilities toward each other, aptly summed up in the instruction to "Love one another," they do not include setting the parameters of personal holiness for someone else.  Holiness is what God has established it to be, exemplified in Christ, and we must comprehend Him in order to manifest it: true holiness is fruit borne as a result of abiding in Christ.  Holiness cannot rightly be dictated or imposed by one upon another.

The only mention Jesus made of tithing was in citing its practice as a false holiness (in Mt. & Lk.) by the godless religionists of that day.  He told His disciples many crucially important things prior to His death, the meanings of which became clearer after Calvary, His resurrection and His ascension.  Tithing was not specified among those topics.

"Giving back to the Lord" any portion of what He has blessed us with is a privilege, as well as a testimony to Him of our gratitude and thanksgiving.  Freely you have received, freely give was not spoken in reference to quantities of giving, but to quality of heart and attitude.

In Christ,
al

[al Hartman]

Hey Folks! Is it just me, or has the atmosphere of the BB improved quite a bit lately...
There is remarkable tone of civility and out and out general good will doncha think?
Verne

     ...Yeah, OK!   Ya wanna make something of it??!!!

 al

[vernecarty]

     ...Yeah, OK!   Ya wanna make something of it??!!!

 al

Are you talking to me..??!!
Verne

[Joe Sperling]

Thanks to everyone for putting in their 10% concerning this issue.

--Joe

[al Hartman]

Thanks to everyone for putting in their 10% concerning this issue.

--Joe

     ...since I retired, that actually is about two cents' worth.

[M2]

If I understand the issue and Tom's & Verne's views of it correctly, IF one believes that tithing is right to do, AND IF he can do it cheerfully and heartily unto the Lord, let him tithe...

BUT, let him not impose such a standard upon his brother for whom also Christ died, because God has not established the tithe as a requirement under grace.

Each of us serves and answers to our Lord individually.  While we have definite responsibilities toward each other, aptly summed up in the instruction to "Love one another," they do not include setting the parameters of personal holiness for someone else.  Holiness is what God has established it to be, exemplified in Christ, and we must comprehend Him in order to manifest it: true holiness is fruit borne as a result of abiding in Christ.  Holiness cannot rightly be dictated or imposed by one upon another.

The only mention Jesus made of tithing was in citing its practice as a false holiness (in Mt. & Lk.) by the godless religionists of that day.  He told His disciples many crucially important things prior to His death, the meanings of which became clearer after Calvary, His resurrection and His ascension.  Tithing was not specified among those topics.

"Giving back to the Lord" any portion of what He has blessed us with is a privilege, as well as a testimony to Him of our gratitude and thanksgiving.  Freely you have received, freely give was not spoken in reference to quantities of giving, but to quality of heart and attitude.

In Christ,
al

Al, thanks for contributing more than 10% to this discussion.

Tom (and anyone else), I am also interested in the "much more to say on this subject".

Blessings,
Marcia

[Oscar]

Tom et al,

I am interested in the "much more to say on this subject".

Marcia

Marcia,

I am in a hurry so I am going to write this without looking up the verses, relying on my notes. (I looked up the verses at the time, but that was about two years ago).

There were actually three tithes:

1. The Lord's Tithe: 10% each year.  Numbers 18:21-29,  Lev. 27:30.

2. The Festival Tithe: 10% a year.  Deut 12:10,11,17-18.

3. The Poor Tithe: 10% every  three years,  therefore 3.33% a year.  Deut 14:28-29.

So the total tithe was 23.33%.    But remember, agricultural blessings and protection from the surrounding nations was part of the Deuteronomic exposition of the Covenant between Israel and God.

Also, the tithe was to be delivered to the Levites.  It has been a Reeeely long time since there have been any Levites.  In (semi) Reformed theology they try to morph these laws and promises over into the NT church era.  This is one of the things I find weak about Reformed theology.  But I have never heard of any Reformed church telling it members that they need to tithe 23.33%.

Thomas Maddux
Virulent Dog