A Brief Word About the WORD

[sarahhoffee]

I have found by reading the postings on this topic that these are the 7 fundamentals of belief that one must adhere to when discerning when God has “actually” spoken.

1.God does not communicate via His Spirit to the human spirit. Well, maybe on some occasions but if so we will question and have a logical reason for what He said. - biblically backed by chapter and verse.

2.If one believes they heard from God and others do not agree with what that “one” heard- --then he did not hear from God.  Exceptions being: Noah, Moses, Elijah, all the prophets, and  at least one apostle [paul- (you know the lucky guess on the gentile thing ) you don’t really believe he saw the whole clean and un-clean animal lay-out???]

--Previous statement meaning that all revelations (unless written in The King James Version of The Holy Bible) must be tested by general populace consensus. And no, it doesn’t matter if it makes sense spiritually-     
3.God is not doing a new thing. At least He is not saying a new thing. At least He is not saying anything He hasn’t said before. And if He were it would sound a lot like what He has said in the past only…
            
            NO. It would be exactly like He said it before.                      
And you probably wouldn’t hear it.

4.God has not spoken in parables except for those instances specifically where He said, “ Hey you guys I’m speaking in a parable here” And in the situations He said that that was because they were really tricky parables… You know the whole “must be born again thing”  (Of course we all knew that had to be a parable)    That Jesus- always beating around the bush. Just say exactly what you mean, Jesus. We don’t have the time nor inclination to meditate and discern spiritual meaning. Thank you.

5. There is no fresh word from God. (see number 3) We cannot state this enough. I got news for ya if you didn’t hear it at seminary, and/or  it is not ,stated clearly, in a verse - then it didn’t come from Him. Got it?

6.We accept the verse that your daughters will prophesy ( Joel 2:28). Of course this only applies in situations that
A) we have heard the word spoken before
B) We wish we were hearing that word spoken or
C) God gives a person a vision and revelation that expands on current knowledge of Him as provided through the Bible, and various spiritual pioneers of the faith

Wait..

  * Correction * Eliminate - C

7. With God all things are Possible!    
Except for those things which are listed above- they are of course possible in the slimmest meaning of the word but, keep in mind they are highly improbable and to experience such would be a MiRacLe !



----In conclusion- No new “prophetic”  words, or “revelations”
Unless we agree (and that means all of us) -- and we don’t.-----
Final answer.

I didn’t just come from the Assembly in fact I hardly remember being a part of it. But  sometimes I am amazed to read the posts of some people. (I’m not talking about everyone on this board) People  that come directly from a fellowship that  hoarded, controlled, and  biblically bruised them spiritually. I find it really interesting to hear these same people declare what is “sound” scriptural teaching when most of them have only recently collected enough spiritual consciousness/stamina to swim away from an already sinking ship. I know this does not apply to everyone. But, I find the number of “spiritual giants“, that until most recently have not had the spiritual discernment or  tenderness of ear to hear God pertaining GG ministry (previous to the fall), to be quite confident now in their abilities of declaring what is and isn’t of God.

[Oscar]

I have found by reading the postings on this topic that these are the 7 fundamentals of belief that one must adhere to when discerning when God has “actually” spoken.

1.God does not communicate via His Spirit to the human spirit. Well, maybe on some occasions but if so we will question and have a logical reason for what He said. - biblically backed by chapter and verse.

2.If one believes they heard from God and others do not agree with what that “one” heard- --then he did not hear from God.  Exceptions being: Noah, Moses, Elijah, all the prophets, and  at least one apostle [paul- (you know the lucky guess on the gentile thing ) you don’t really believe he saw the whole clean and un-clean animal lay-out???]

--Previous statement meaning that all revelations (unless written in The King James Version of The Holy Bible) must be tested by general populace consensus. And no, it doesn’t matter if it makes sense spiritually-     
3.God is not doing a new thing. At least He is not saying a new thing. At least He is not saying anything He hasn’t said before. And if He were it would sound a lot like what He has said in the past only…
            
            NO. It would be exactly like He said it before.                      
And you probably wouldn’t hear it.

4.God has not spoken in parables except for those instances specifically where He said, “ Hey you guys I’m speaking in a parable here” And in the situations He said that that was because they were really tricky parables… You know the whole “must be born again thing”  (Of course we all knew that had to be a parable)    That Jesus- always beating around the bush. Just say exactly what you mean, Jesus. We don’t have the time nor inclination to meditate and discern spiritual meaning. Thank you.

5. There is no fresh word from God. (see number 3) We cannot state this enough. I got news for ya if you didn’t hear it at seminary, and/or  it is not ,stated clearly, in a verse - then it didn’t come from Him. Got it?

6.We accept the verse that your daughters will prophesy ( Joel 2:28). Of course this only applies in situations that
A) we have heard the word spoken before
B) We wish we were hearing that word spoken or
C) God gives a person a vision and revelation that expands on current knowledge of Him as provided through the Bible, and various spiritual pioneers of the faith

Wait..

  * Correction * Eliminate - C

7. With God all things are Possible!    
Except for those things which are listed above- they are of course possible in the slimmest meaning of the word but, keep in mind they are highly improbable and to experience such would be a MiRacLe !



----In conclusion- No new “prophetic”  words, or “revelations”
Unless we agree (and that means all of us) -- and we don’t.-----
Final answer.

I didn’t just come from the Assembly in fact I hardly remember being a part of it. But  sometimes I am amazed to read the posts of some people. (I’m not talking about everyone on this board) People  that come directly from a fellowship that  hoarded, controlled, and  biblically bruised them spiritually. I find it really interesting to hear these same people declare what is “sound” scriptural teaching when most of them have only recently collected enough spiritual consciousness/stamina to swim away from an already sinking ship. I know this does not apply to everyone. But, I find the number of “spiritual giants“, that until most recently have not had the spiritual discernment or  tenderness of ear to hear God pertaining GG ministry (previous to the fall), to be quite confident now in their abilities of declaring what is and isn’t of God.

Dear Sarahhoffee,

(Is your name Sarah Hoffee?)

You have now informed us, in very general terms, what you disagree with.

However, I have  a couple of questions regarding your comments.

1. How does one know when God is "communicating via His Spirit to the human spirit"?
2. Where does the Bible teach that Christians should expect to "hear from God"?
3. How does one know when God is "doing a new thing"?
4. What do you think a parable is?
5. Just how does one know one is hearing a "fresh word from God"?
6. Who is the verse from Acts 2 about "Your daughters shall prophesy" addressed to?
7. How many miracles do you see in an average day?

It is quite one thing to believe that you hear directly from God on a regular basis.  Many people who have murdered others have claimed that God told them to do it.

The big question is how can anyone else know that you have "heard from God".  

Thomas Maddux

[Scott McCumber]

I have found by reading the postings on this topic that these are the 7 fundamentals of belief that one must adhere to when discerning when God has “actually” spoken.

1.God does not communicate via His Spirit to the human spirit. Well, maybe on some occasions but if so we will question and have a logical reason for what He said. - biblically backed by chapter and verse.

2.If one believes they heard from God and others do not agree with what that “one” heard- --then he did not hear from God.  Exceptions being: Noah, Moses, Elijah, all the prophets, and  at least one apostle [paul- (you know the lucky guess on the gentile thing ) you don’t really believe he saw the whole clean and un-clean animal lay-out???]

--Previous statement meaning that all revelations (unless written in The King James Version of The Holy Bible) must be tested by general populace consensus. And no, it doesn’t matter if it makes sense spiritually-     
3.God is not doing a new thing. At least He is not saying a new thing. At least He is not saying anything He hasn’t said before. And if He were it would sound a lot like what He has said in the past only…
            
            NO. It would be exactly like He said it before.                      
And you probably wouldn’t hear it.

4.God has not spoken in parables except for those instances specifically where He said, “ Hey you guys I’m speaking in a parable here” And in the situations He said that that was because they were really tricky parables… You know the whole “must be born again thing”  (Of course we all knew that had to be a parable)    That Jesus- always beating around the bush. Just say exactly what you mean, Jesus. We don’t have the time nor inclination to meditate and discern spiritual meaning. Thank you.

5. There is no fresh word from God. (see number 3) We cannot state this enough. I got news for ya if you didn’t hear it at seminary, and/or  it is not ,stated clearly, in a verse - then it didn’t come from Him. Got it?

6.We accept the verse that your daughters will prophesy ( Joel 2:28). Of course this only applies in situations that
A) we have heard the word spoken before
B) We wish we were hearing that word spoken or
C) God gives a person a vision and revelation that expands on current knowledge of Him as provided through the Bible, and various spiritual pioneers of the faith

Wait..

  * Correction * Eliminate - C

7. With God all things are Possible!    
Except for those things which are listed above- they are of course possible in the slimmest meaning of the word but, keep in mind they are highly improbable and to experience such would be a MiRacLe !



----In conclusion- No new “prophetic”  words, or “revelations”
Unless we agree (and that means all of us) -- and we don’t.-----
Final answer.

I didn’t just come from the Assembly in fact I hardly remember being a part of it. But  sometimes I am amazed to read the posts of some people. (I’m not talking about everyone on this board) People  that come directly from a fellowship that  hoarded, controlled, and  biblically bruised them spiritually. I find it really interesting to hear these same people declare what is “sound” scriptural teaching when most of them have only recently collected enough spiritual consciousness/stamina to swim away from an already sinking ship. I know this does not apply to everyone. But, I find the number of “spiritual giants“, that until most recently have not had the spiritual discernment or  tenderness of ear to hear God pertaining GG ministry (previous to the fall), to be quite confident now in their abilities of declaring what is and isn’t of God.

Sarah,

Clever post. You are obviously very intelligent. Your style reminds me of Brent’s. Unfortunately, your premise is flawed, therefore . . .

What you have done is taken the differing opinions of several different posters and tried to make the argument that they represent the unified doctrine of the bulletin board and that doctrine contradicts itself and therefore does not hold water.

Nice try. Since the posts represent varied opinions, it’s quite easy to pick them apart and point out the contrasts, then make the statement that the writers are full of malarkey since they contradict each other.

Problem is, there is no unified doctrine on the board. It is an open forum populated by numerous opinions and doctrines. Verne does not always agree Brent, who is not always in agreement with Al, who holds a different view than Dave who doesn’t share the opinion of Tom who thinks they’re all a little skewed!

Cute post. Doesn’t stand up really well, though.

Also, the vast majority of posters who offer up opinions on hermeneutics, word studies, types, etc. on this board are people who escaped the Assembly in the mid 80’s and have made a diligent effort to seek the truth.

Of course, that doesn't make them right about everything (or anything), but they certainly don't fit your description of the recently enlightened, yet still clueless Assembly escapee.

Perhaps your post would have been more helpful if you had tried to explain your beliefs about how God speaks, and included some supporting facts.

Maybe next time?

Scott

[Recovering Saint]

----In conclusion- No new “prophetic”  words, or “revelations”
Unless we agree (and that means all of us) -- and we don’t.-----
Final answer.

I didn’t just come from the Assembly in fact I hardly remember being a part of it. But  sometimes I am amazed to read the posts of some people. (I’m not talking about everyone on this board) People  that come directly from a fellowship that  hoarded, controlled, and  biblically bruised them spiritually. I find it really interesting to hear these same people declare what is “sound” scriptural teaching when most of them have only recently collected enough spiritual consciousness/stamina to swim away from an already sinking ship. I know this does not apply to everyone. But, I find the number of “spiritual giants“, that until most recently have not had the spiritual discernment or  tenderness of ear to hear God pertaining GG ministry (previous to the fall), to be quite confident now in their abilities of declaring what is and isn’t of God.

I hope you don't mean that to hear from God we all have to agree. That was a leading brother thing in Ottawa. We had the mind of God because we all agree. Nonsense: What God shows me in my walk may not be what He shows you for your life. Some things are universal but one size does not always fit all. Just quote from someone and state your difference with their view. If you are open to a proper rebuttal then we can see if you have a valid point or not. The Assembly taught us a lot of scripture and sometimes we held different views albeit to ourselves if we were smart. Now after seeing the error of the Assembly spin we see that often we were right all along. In the Assembly we always had to be right and shoot down all others who disagree. I hope we all have learned that the final word has not been said and we all have a lot to learn. By discussing we learn by closing the discussion we go back to the same old problems that started the whole thing. I would like to see your rebuttal to specifics it could prove enlightening for all

Hugh

[summer007]

Sarah,  Your amazement may stem from  the fact that you hardly remember your involvement.....while you are clanging your Gong ....Many are hearing The Sound of Abundance of Rain ...You mentioned in an earlier post that this was like a Warzone....Hello ....Have you ever read eph 6 we  are in a battle ..thats why we put on the Whole Armer of God...To War a good Warfare...I myself  refuse to support False Teachers...I realize your sympathtic to your Aunts site...and probibly feel your operating in Christian Love...Since you hardly remember anything WHY?? are you trying to teach others?

[tkarey]

Thank you, Sarah, for your post. It stimulated some questions I've had re: how God speaks to us. Does anyone remember the book called "Vanya". I don't know if there was more to the title or not. The story was of a Russian young man who stood for Christ in the 70's and was eventually killed for it. In it, Vanya experiences several mystical events involving hovering angels, bread flying out of a locked truck, and being transported to another place (heaven?) for a brief time. I read this book before my assembly days and again during that time. I was profoundly affected by it. Vanya seemed so humble and wondered why he had been chosen for these visitations, etc, when he was merely living his life as any other Christian would.

My question is - do you think this stuff really happens? Yes? No? Sometimes? How would we recognize these sometimes? What do you base your answer on?

There is a man at my church who says one day God told him he was to move to the west coast. God further told him he would meet a man that day which would be from the town he should move to. That same day this man attended a conference where our pastor spoke. Later our pastor came up to this man to compliment him on his music (he is unbelievably good), and when the man found out where our pastor was from he said, "That is where God wants me to move." When I heard this story I cringed. My first thoughts were "This is what I get for being in a foursquare church." Then I didn't know, maybe I was the one who was all washed up.

Another story. A woman I met through homeschool circles is a devout Catholic and believer in Medjugorje (the visitation of Mary, the mother of God, in Poland, who comes with the message of peace on earth). She is friendly, hospitable, caring, talks about loving the Lord and loves to tell miraculous stories of healing, etc that are a direct result of Medjugorje. We've spent a little time together due to h.s. events but everytime she brings the Mary stuff up I freak out inside. My personal belief is that she is dead wrong and that demons can immitate goodness if it serves their purposes. She would say this is one way that God "speaks" to us.

Does anyone really know what the heck they are talking about?

I would appreciate other people's thoughts on this.

Karey

[editor]

Does anyone really know what the heck they are talking about?

I would appreciate other people's thoughts on this.

Karey

No, none of us really "know."  We all have limited, weak intellect, if we compare what we are able to understand with all that is able to be understood.  However, there are a number of things, simple things, that we agree on.  The person of Christ being one of them.

The simple reality is that each of us must be fully convinced in our own minds about what we believe.

Check my signature!

However, years of studying the Bible, even under a false system, like watchtower, can yield benefit when we meet Jesus.  His Word accomplishes His purpose.

As for Sarah's point about us acting like we are "spiritual giants," when in fact some of us are only recently out of Geftakysism (four years for me) is a point well taken!  This is an excellent point, which is why it is so important for Assembly folk to get out of The Assembly and go to a healthy church!  

If someone is using this BB as their teacher/pastor/source of fellowship, they need to stop!  That isn't what this is all about.

Please read everything here with a noble, Berean-like spirit.

Brent

[Scott McCumber]

Karey,

I agree with Brent in that no one knows all the answers.

Here is what I have considered in light of a situation like Vajna's:

Does God make a habit out of using miracles to bail people out of trouble? Probably not. Does he speak in visions on a daily basis to every other Christian on Earth? Probably not.

In situations of extreme persecution and duress is He able and willing to step in and deliver for his His purposes. Yes.

A popular line of thought states that God granted the apostolic gifts (tongues, healing, etc) as a tool to spread the gospel due to a lack of written scripture, etc.

Once there was ample written doctrine and testimony, the gifts were suspended.

It seems to follow then, that God can still use miracles to spread his word, rescue his people, etc. whenever he sees fit. But he probably doesn't see fit as much as people would like to think!

Humble offering from a spiritual dwarf who has not sat under Assembly teachings for 18 years!

S

[summer007]

He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the Churches...Rev....And ....in IKings A still small Voice....Gods word will not return Void....Romans 10 So then FAITH comes by HEARING and Hearing by the WORD of GOD............p.s....I read Vanya  in '80 or '81 very good book!!!!

[vernecarty]

If someone is using this BB as their teacher/pastor/source of fellowship, they need to stop!  That isn't what this is all about.

Please read everything here with a noble, Berean-like spirit.

Brent

Brent's observations explain a lot. Most of us are here to engage in lively, amicable exchange with an open mind, as well as a willingness to learn from one another. People suffering from delusions of grandeur and sporting a hidden agenda, presuming themselves to be wise and spiritually superior to those on the forum of course will have no choice but to go start their own. It ought to tell you something if you cannot endure the society of other adults as varied as represented here. There is hardly a person on this forum who has not in some fashion displayed their vulnerability and human frailty. We know who we are thank-you-very-much.
The self-righteous and self-serving diatribe against Scott by she-that-must-not-be-named shows the remarkable ability of minds corrupted by George and Betty Geftakys to strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.
Scott's use of vulgar language to describe a vulgar man is studied as it is clearly not the only thing he has ever posted. I once employed Nixon's jawbone- of- an- ass reference and was forever after dubbed as a man of foul and fatuous speech.  The apostle Paul sometimes did the same.  How could a person be so incredibly dense as to take issue with that narrative yet fail to grasp the central issue: why it was that only a nine year old boy was able to discern and willing to assert that George Geftakys was a godless and contemptible thug, rotten to the core? (granted of course I would have found some way other than "the finger" to publish that fact!). The vulgarity of his discription is entirely appropriate to the nature of what was going on if you please- a scathing indictment of those who tolerated it.
The answer is of course that they all knew it, just did not have the cojones to say it! (I am sure she will lecture me for that one).
The wholesale impugning of motives and the sanctimonious finger-wagging is truly tiresome, to say nothing of hypocritical considering its source. Have you read Delila's story?
If you do not like what is being said here and have no interest in participating, simply find society elsehwere and leave us alone. Do you see anyone here accusing you of being a trollop for some of that tripe you are dispensing? No you do not, now do you?
Even an intellectual giant like Hugo Dyson had to endure Lewis' harsh assessment of his initial Inklings offerings as  "a raging cataract of nonsense". The inability of some to accept criticism from others obviously better instructed, "raging cataract" notwithstanding, is a sure sign that the "leave em alone" principle applies. I admire Tom Maddux for being the only one to apply it consistently. Back to igging 'em.
Verne
p.s it is kinda hard to resist some of the more hilarious renderings though, like Brent's recent exegesis...all in good fun of course!  
Verne

[tkarey]

Well, uh, thanks. Didn't mean to get anyone's dander up. I am well acquainted with the view Scott mentioned and, in fact, agree with it. I was curious what someone who'd been in an assembly-like place would think about these things, thus the question.

I suppose I was also prompted by the various opinions that one hears all over the place. (Not just on this BB, but everywhere you go.) There seems to be a lack of many things in the world, but opinions aren't one of them. For instance, I remember buying cereal as a kid and there were only a few choices compared to today where a store needs an entire isle to display the options. In my small childhood world there were equally only a few choices of opinion compared to today. Being in the assembly re-created a "safe" place of black and white limited options.  Unfortunately, that so-called safe place tended to shrivel the brain.

I enjoy the lively discussions. It gives me a chance to get the cobwebs out and hear how other people think. I am fascinated by what people think. Why do they think the way they do? What has brought them to this opinion? What are the chances they will change their opinion over time? What makes them tick???

If I sometimes succumb to indecision and confusion it's ok (this happens at church, mostly, but not as often as it use to). I forgive myself.   Only once in a great, great while, though.  Can't have people thinking I don't know everything!!!  

Karey

[Kimberley Tobin]

I can't go on the SWTE site at all!  It gets my blood pressure up, just as communicating with the likes of any assembly minded people (who refuse to give up their brain washed teaching) does.

The reason I like dialoguing in this forum is, I won't be jumped all over with scripture references as to why I need to change my way of thinking or behavior.  We are able to swap stories, put forth theories, a true "Forum".  We don't always agree with one another and at times enjoy having "sport" (in good fun ) with one another.  BUT...........and here's the big BUT...........we let one another express ourselves.  It is those who come here trying to "control" our thoughts and behaviors that we take exception to.  We all know who the likes of these individuals are without having to name names.

TKarey........you are not one of them.  I'm glad Verne cleared that up.  We have enjoyed your stories and contribution.  

[Scott McCumber]

If someone is using this BB as their teacher/pastor/source of fellowship, they need to stop!  That isn't what this is all about.

Please read everything here with a noble, Berean-like spirit.

Brent

Brent's observations explain a lot. Most of us are here to engage in lively, amicable exchange with an open mind, as well as a willingness to learn from one another. People suffering from delusions of grandeur and sporting a hidden agenda, presuming themselves to be wise and spiritually superior to those on the forum of course will have no choice but to go start their own. It ought to tell you something if you cannot endure the society of other adults as varied as represented here. There is hardly a person on this forum who has not in some fashion displayed their vulnerability and human frailty. We know who we are thank-you-very-much.
The self-righteous and self-serving diatribe against Scott by she-that-must-not-be-named shows the remarkable ability of minds corrupted by George and Betty Geftakys to strain at a gnat and swallow a camel.
Scott's use of vulgar language to describe a vulgar man is studied as it is clearly not the only thing he has ever posted. I once employed Nixon's jawbone- of- an- ass reference and was forever after dubbed as a man of foul and fatuous speech.  The apostle Paul sometimes did the same.  How could a person be so incredibly dense as to take issue with that narrative yet fail to grasp the central issue: why it was that only a nine year old boy was able to discern and willing to assert that George Geftakys was a godless and contemptible thug, rotten to the core? (granted of course I would have found some way other than "the finger" to publish that fact!). The vulgarity of his discription is entirely apporpirate to the nature of what was going on if you please- a scathing indictment of those who allowed it.
The answer is of course that they all knew it, just did not have the cohones to say it! (I am sure she will lecture me for that one).
The wholesale impugning of motives and the sanctimonious finger-wagging is truly tiresome, to say nothing of hypocritical considering its source. Have you read Delila's story?
If you do not like what is being said here and have no interest in participating, simply find society elsehwere and leave us alone. Do you see anyone here accusing you of being a trollop for some of that tripe you are dispensing? No you do not, now do you?
Even an intellectual giant like Hugo Dyson had to endure Lewis' harsh assessment of his initial Inklings offerings as a "a raging cataract of nonsense". The inability of some to accept criticism from others obviously better instructed, "raging cataract" notwithstanding, is a sure sign that the "leave em alone" principle applies. I admire Tom Maddux for being the only one to apply it consistently. Back to igging 'em.
Verne
p.s it is kinda hard to resist some of the more hilarious renderings though, like Brent's recent exegesis...all in good fun of course!  
Verne

I can barely express how absurd the Seagulls site is. I could bang out a long post on the flawed logic expressed there.

But why? I agree with Brent. They are so over the top and blatantly flawed that they are a joke.

Please let them write ALL of their thoughts and post them for the world to see. They only hurt themselves. But don't be dragged down into their twisted reality.

Verne, by definition anyone who is castigated on their board must be doing something right! Wear it like a badge of honor and continue your more important work on this forum. I don't think anyone here needs to be convinced those people are whacked (yes, that is the proper medical term ).

Just one man's opinion.

Scott McCumber

So there you have it! Nothing has changed.

Scott

[Scott McCumber]

Thank you, Sarah, for your post. It stimulated some questions I've had re: how God speaks to us. Does anyone remember the book called "Vanya". I don't know if there was more to the title or not. The story was of a Russian young man who stood for Christ in the 70's and was eventually killed for it. In it, Vanya experiences several mystical events involving hovering angels, bread flying out of a locked truck, and being transported to another place (heaven?) for a brief time. I read this book before my assembly days and again during that time. I was profoundly affected by it. Vanya seemed so humble and wondered why he had been chosen for these visitations, etc, when he was merely living his life as any other Christian would.

My question is - do you think this stuff really happens? Yes? No? Sometimes? How would we recognize these sometimes? What do you base your answer on?

There is a man at my church who says one day God told him he was to move to the west coast. God further told him he would meet a man that day which would be from the town he should move to. That same day this man attended a conference where our pastor spoke. Later our pastor came up to this man to compliment him on his music (he is unbelievably good), and when the man found out where our pastor was from he said, "That is where God wants me to move." When I heard this story I cringed. My first thoughts were "This is what I get for being in a foursquare church." Then I didn't know, maybe I was the one who was all washed up.

Another story. A woman I met through homeschool circles is a devout Catholic and believer in Medjugorje (the visitation of Mary, the mother of God, in Poland, who comes with the message of peace on earth). She is friendly, hospitable, caring, talks about loving the Lord and loves to tell miraculous stories of healing, etc that are a direct result of Medjugorje. We've spent a little time together due to h.s. events but everytime she brings the Mary stuff up I freak out inside. My personal belief is that she is dead wrong and that demons can immitate goodness if it serves their purposes. She would say this is one way that God "speaks" to us.

Does anyone really know what the heck they are talking about?

I would appreciate other people's thoughts on this.

Karey

Here's one for you. My parents would be mortified if they knew I was telling this story but it's too good of an illustration. They'll forgive me (they have to, I have their grandkids!).

My parents were considering buying a house during their Assembly heyday. Of course they were agonizing over the decision, poring over scripture, trying to find a "promise", trying to find out what God's will was for the home purchase.

The seller's last name was Stoops. One day, they were travelling down the highway, discussing the situation and decided to offer a quick prayer on the matter. About the time they said Amen, a truck cut into their lane and the back of the trailer said STOOPS TRUCKING.

So they bought the house.  

BTW, Stoops Trucking was a fairly large outfit in the Midwest. I tended to notice them on the road about every day after that.

A question, similar to Karey's:

I have known many truly saved, Christ-loving Pentecostals and Assembly of God members. On Wednesday nights when they speak in tongues, what is that?

I mean, do they make it up? You'd think someone would have stood up by now and said, "Hey, you know you're all making this up!" and blown the lid off the whole thing.

Are they in a moment of emotional ecstacy and so carried away, they babble? Then why does some guy claim to know what is being said? Is he a straight-up liar on Wednesday nights? Or does he hear something? From who?

Are they actually speaking a hidden language and thus a conduit for an evil spirit? If so, how can they be so Satanically influenced but are still able to continue the rest of their lives happily witnessing for Christ, etc.

What's the deal?

S

[tkarey]

Oops, my mistake.   Thanks, guys (and Kimberley), for clearing that up. I no longer go to the SWTE site either. When I began going over there I came away confused and discouraged (which apparently isn't very hard to do !!!). One day I realized that SWTE was attacking the messenger. Their posts had little or nothing to do with the actual accusations against the assembly. They were consumed with undermining the character of people who spoke against  assembly ways. That's called "redirecting" at our house and it isn't allowed when we're discussing a conflict. No offense meant against Sondra, whom I don't even know and wish well, but I don't find the site useful.

Speaking of "she-who-must-not-be-named" I feel downright weird nowadays when my kids are the ones reading & watching Harry Potter when most in my family and church have nothing to do with it. But that's another subject.

Ok, back to the Word...

Karey

P.S. thanks for that reminder, Brent, about being convinced in our own minds. Gosh, that's good to hear over and over. The concept of honoring another's free will (including the consequences, but NEVER NEVER without hope) is revolutionizing our family.