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Author Topic: Plymouth Bretheren  (Read 4354 times)
David Mauldin
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« on: March 10, 2003, 11:05:09 pm »

My experiences amongst the "Bretheren"  were very eye opening.  The ideals expounded in the Bible are limited to the personality and the desire of the the people in a any particular church.  As in most fundamentalist churches anyone can hear good Bible teaching were the ideas of sacraficial/agape  love are frequently expounded upon.  Yet in truth it doesn't take much time to really see what is going on.  People get together and discuss the high and lofty teachings of Christ, these discussions bring about a feeling of acomplishment, gratification, even solidify the "exclusive" attitudes amongst the congregation, "we really follow the Lord"   yet for the most part people all live within their own comfort zone.  Even in the Geftakys church I observed many people who did all that was required by the stated standards yet had very little love or concern for anyone else.  Can anyone truely look at christianity in its corperate experession and say, "This is what Christ intended?"
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Arthur
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« Reply #1 on: March 11, 2003, 03:41:57 am »

My experiences amongst the "Bretheren"  were very eye opening.  The ideals expounded in the Bible are limited to the personality and the desire of the the people in a any particular church.  As in most fundamentalist churches anyone can hear good Bible teaching were the ideas of sacraficial/agape  love are frequently expounded upon.  Yet in truth it doesn't take much time to really see what is going on.  People get together and discuss the high and lofty teachings of Christ, these discussions bring about a feeling of acomplishment, gratification, even solidify the "exclusive" attitudes amongst the congregation, "we really follow the Lord"   yet for the most part people all live within their own comfort zone.  Even in the Geftakys church I observed many people who did all that was required by the stated standards yet had very little love or concern for anyone else.  Can anyone truely look at christianity in its corperate experession and say, "This is what Christ intended?"

No, I doubt it.  David, you called it, that certainly is the case and it is sad.  What do you expect from mankind?  I saw a bumper sticker today that says, "The more people I meet, the more I like my dog." lol  Grin
But does it really matter?  Mankind (you and me included) in his sin and hypocracy is ugly.  But Jesus the Righteous One is beautiful.  Why look upon and focus on man?  What do you expect to find there but exactly what you pointed out.  Look at Jesus.  He is wonderful.  And he didn't just talk.  Every day he lived what he said, and he gave his life as a ransom for mankind (yes, ugly sinners like us).  Now THAT is love.  

So...these guys that you are talking about aren't real Christians.  What is a real Christian?  How about someone who is poor in spirit, merciful and meak--among other things. I'd like to meet a man like that.  And I bet he learned it from Jesus.

I read somewhere that God "has chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God has chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty; And base things of the world, and things which are despised, has God chosen, yes, and things which are not, to bring to nought things that are: That no flesh should glory in his presence."

The intellectuals talking about lofty "Christian" ideals and yet are rude jerks don't strike me as being real Christians.  

Hmm...here's another one:
"8 Now ye are full, now ye are rich, ye have reigned as kings without us: and I would to God ye did reign, that we also might reign with you. 9 For I think that God hath set forth us the apostles last, as it were appointed to death: for we are made a spectacle unto the world, and to angels, and to men. 10 We are fools for Christ's sake, but ye are wise in Christ; we are weak, but ye are strong; ye are honourable, but we are despised. 11 Even unto this present hour we both hunger, and thirst, and are naked, and are buffeted, and have no certain dwellingplace; 12 And labour, working with our own hands: being reviled, we bless; being persecuted, we suffer it: 13 Being defamed, we intreat: we are made as the filth of the world, and are the offscouring of all things unto this day. "

So the apostles--the men who had been with Jesus--were...great intellectuals and prominant men who sat around talking about what great things they did on missionary trips and how much dough they got rolling in?

Um...no.  

They were spectacles unto the world, angels and men, and...the "filth of the world, the scum(offscouring) of the earth".
Yeah, so man looks on the outward appearance, but God looks at the heart.

Dude, forget about man.  It's always so dissappointing looking at man and what he naturally finds important and prestigeous.  Focus on Jesus, he's a far-sight more interesting and lovely to behold.
You ever see the movie The Mission?  You remember when that mercinary guy really caught on?  He read I Cor 13 about what love really was like and he saw how that priest really, in action and deed, was helping the natives and caring for him.   Then he was like, "Ah...yeah, that's love."
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David Mauldin
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« Reply #2 on: March 11, 2003, 06:27:08 am »

Arther,  I want to compliment all the hard work and good job you and others have done to respond to my post.  yet I find all of them lacking.  Do you realize the argument you just gave was at one time submitted to Luther?  "Come on Lu gets your eyes on the Lord!"
« Last Edit: March 11, 2003, 06:27:25 am by David Mauldin » Logged
BenJapheth
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« Reply #3 on: March 11, 2003, 10:39:52 am »



sticks, burrs and weeds...some yucky stuff out there...
[/b]


Howdy folks,

Here is a thought that occurred to me many years ago when I was thinking my way out of Brethrenism.

These groups have as their Big Idea the belief that they are supposed do exactly what the New Testament saints did, and that those who don't follow this principle are not fully faithful.  Going beyond what is seen in the Bible is "human innovation".

One problem is that without the human innovations of Christian colleges and publishing houses their groups couldn't exist.

How many modern Christians can read koine Greek, Hebrew, and Aramaic?  Christian colleges are just about the only places you can learn koine Greek.  Classics programs at secular universities generally teach the Attic Greek.

If no one received this training, how would we have Bible translations and study books to use?

So when we were following the misunderstood command to "come ye out from among them", we had to keep going back to get help!

Thomas Maddux


simply looking for a few good sheep
[/b]

I think one of the big lessons is to glean from where you can.  The edges of the fields are noted for their burrs and sticks.  Ecclesiastes says, "The wise man grasps one thing and will not let go of another, for he who fears God will come forth with both of them."  Hold to the good and run from the bad....Yep, all this applies to the Brethren phenomena.  Commitment is dangerous.  Knowledge is dangerous...PBs excell in both.  Dangerous folk, they are.

Sometimes a little apathy and ignorance ain't so bad...but that's dangerous, too.  If you say, "Oh, I get it" - then you don't.  There is no formula.  There is no Jesus + Church as the answer.  Jesus is the answer period.  He would rather work through the ignorant and foolish who look to him, than folks who reduce godliness to an algorythmn like many PBs do....but, careful now - not so fast - it's not so easy.  You dismiss the Brethren example at your own peril.

It's Jesus, Jesus, Jesus...with our whole mind and if we can learn Greek, Hebrew, and memorize the book of Psalms - Super!  But in reality - The Lord Jesus is simply looking for a few good sheep.

Rejoice In The Lord Always!

Chuck Vanasse
chuck@vanant.com
« Last Edit: March 11, 2003, 10:40:17 am by :: Chuck Vanasse :: » Logged
Arthur
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« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2003, 10:10:31 pm »

Arther,  I want to compliment all the hard work and good job you and others have done to respond to my post.  yet I find all of them lacking.  Do you realize the argument you just gave was at one time submitted to Luther?  "Come on Lu gets your eyes on the Lord!"

David,

Please, do you think the Catholic's who were against Luther said, "Luther, you are right, we are hypocrites, forget us and our high and lofty teaching, follow Jesus." Huh  No way man, that's not what they were against Luther for.  They were against him because he was saying things that were a threat to their control and power.  So, what does Luther have to do with what we were talking about anyways?  I'm thinking that you do not have a desire to look at Jesus or know the truth.  

The truth is that Jesus is perfect and righteous, we are not.  He died to save us from our sins, was buried and rose again.  You believe that, don't you?

Let me state what I said in the previous post another way.  Have you ever seen a sheep attack a wolf?    Obviously not.  During the Spanish Inquisition, who do you think the real Christians were--the tormentors or the tormentees?  
Jesus was despised and rejected of men.  He told his followers that they would likewise be persecuted for his name sake.  All I'm saying is that group of people you're looking at is the wrong group.  Look at the people in Sudan or China or other places who are dying for their faith.  Have you read Wormbrand's Tortured for Christ?  I doubt you could look him in the eye and say "you're a phony", after all that he went through.  And there are many other such examples.  
« Last Edit: March 12, 2003, 10:12:20 pm by Arthur » Logged
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