What Do You Think The Lord was Trying To Teach Me?

[David Mauldin]

Quite a few years back Dave Sable and I were writing letters to a Chinese man in Arizona. I can't remember his name (Dave remebers) so I will call him Mr. Cho. Mr. Cho was a very kindhearted soul who became a Christian at U.S.C. before moving to Arizona and attending U. A. Mr. Cho had brought his family out from China. His wife and teenage son and daughter.  One night I learned that Mr. cho was in a very sad state of mind. His 18 year old son had drowned in the pool at the apartment where he was living. (Suicide??) Well Dave and I continued to write to him and about 8 months after the death I had a chance to visit he and his wife. both were still very devistated (The wife had been in a mental hospital) ( I guess that for Asians suicide/death is very very all the more devistateing???)   So during the evening Mr. Cho and I got caught up on a lot of info.  Towards the end of the time he mentioned to me about a brother from his Chinese fellowship in Arizona. He related to me that this man became very concerned over the fact that Mr. Cho and wife still seemed to be grieving long after he felt they should. He decided to take them aside and have a talk. "Why are you still grieving?"  "Come-on"  "Get over it!"  "You need to put this behind you and start rejoicing like the Bible says."  O.K. right about now you may be thinking to yourself, "This guy was right in doing this!" And I  would agree with you. He was doctrinally right!  He was scriptual! Mr. Cho however did not respond in the way that this brother wanted. So the brother continued to "encourage him"  UNTIL...one evening the news told about a passenger airliner that crashed during take-off at Chicago O'hare  airport. this same man's son was on the plane!  Sadly his son to was taken from him!!!!  This man I was told did not rejoice in this trial! What do you think I ;earned from this conversation??? What would you have learned??

[sfortescue]

Quite a few years back Dave Sable and I were writing letters to a Chinese man in Arizona. I can't remember his name (Dave remebers) so I will call him Mr. Cho. Mr. Cho was a very kindhearted soul who became a Christian at U.S.C. before moving to Arizona and attending U. A. Mr. Cho had brought his family out from China. His wife and teenage son and daughter.  One night I learned that Mr. cho was in a very sad state of mind. His 18 year old son had drowned in the pool at the apartment where he was living. (Suicide??) Well Dave and I continued to write to him and about 8 months after the death I had a chance to visit he and his wife. both were still very devistated (The wife had been in a mental hospital) ( I guess that for Asians suicide/death is very very all the more devistateing???)   So during the evening Mr. Cho and I got caught up on a lot of info.  Towards the end of the time he mentioned to me about a brother from his Chinese fellowship in Arizona. He related to me that this man became very concerned over the fact that Mr. Cho and wife still seemed to be grieving long after he felt they should. He decided to take them aside and have a talk. "Why are you still grieving?"  "Come-on"  "Get over it!"  "You need to put this behind you and start rejoicing like the Bible says."  O.K. right about now you may be thinking to yourself, "This guy was right in doing this!" And I  would agree with you. He was doctrinally right!  He was scriptual! Mr. Cho however did not respond in the way that this brother wanted. So the brother continued to "encourage him"  UNTIL...one evening the news told about a passenger airliner that crashed during take-off at Chicago O'hare  airport. this same man's son was on the plane!  Sadly his son to was taken from him!!!!  This man I was told did not rejoice in this trial! What do you think I ;earned from this conversation??? What would you have learned??

Several years ago I learned something interesting about Chinese and Korean culture from a Korean co-worker.  He described how that it was customary to tell stories that were complete fabrications in order to communicate an emotional effect.  What you heard probably wasn't true.

[David Mauldin]

Stephen, I work with Asians and just finished a CLAD class (This is a class for teachers who are learning about other cultures for the purpose of working with students from that particular culture. I get about 1-2 Asian students every year.) that covered China, Viet-Nam and Korea. Last year I taught 6th grade. We did a unit on China. I did a lot of personal reasearch on the culture. I have never come across that these people lie.  In fact just the opposite. I have conducted a search on the internet and still have not found anything to support what you acusing this man of doing. Further I am sure Dave will atest to this mans integrity. I wonder where did you get this information? Can you give me the name and number of the person who told you this? I would really be interested in finding out more. (Of course I'm not questioning your integrity bro! I know you would never stretch something because you are a Christan and Christians don't lie!) What experience do you have with other cultures? I have preached in quite a few assemblies and told and retold this story. Not once did any of the bretheren approach me and say something anywhere near this. Maybe you should do a little background check before repeating something like this.  Anyway, what do you think the Lord was trying to teach me? What would you have learned from this situation?

[editor]

Stephen, I work with Asians and just finished a CLAD class (This is a class for teachers who are learning about other cultures for the purpose of working with students from that particular culture. I get about 1-2 Asian students every year.) that covered China, Viet-Nam and Korea. Last year I taught 6th grade. We did a unit on China. I did a lot of personal reasearch on the culture. I have never come across that these people lie.  In fact just the opposite. I have conducted a search on the internet and still have not found anything to support what you acusing this man of doing. Further I am sure Dave will atest to this mans integrity. I wonder where did you get this information? Can you give me the name and number of the person who told you this? I would really be interested in finding out more. (Of course I'm not questioning your integrity bro! I know you would never stretch something because you are a Christan and Christians don't lie!) What experience do you have with other cultures? I have preached in quite a few assemblies and told and retold this story. Not once did any of the bretheren approach me and say something anywhere near this. Maybe you should do a little background check before repeating something like this.  Anyway, what do you think the Lord was trying to teach me? What would you have learned from this situation?

I was born in Hawaii, and spent plenty of time there.  I am totally comfortable and familiar with Asian culture, and I've never heard anything like that either.

They are crazy gamblers, especially the Chinese, but I have never heard of, or experienced what Steve mentioned below.

Brent

[David Mauldin]

Another teacher told me that is statement sounds racist.

[Mark Kisla]

They are crazy gamblers, especially the Chinese,

Brent

You hit the target on that one, either you blow them out of the water or look out.

[editor]

Another teacher told me that is statement sounds racist.

I hate calling people rascist for one unclear phrase....however, I don't know of anything that could substantiate his statement.

Now, if you want to say that Arabs will try to cheat you in an open air market....that's not racist, it's a plain fact!

If you say that in Western culture, many white people look down on blacks....that's also a fact.

What Steven is saying does not equal racism, but if it's not true...it's certainly not accurate and could lead to prejudice in a person who bought into it.

Brent

[M2]

Quite a few years back Dave Sable and I were writing letters to a Chinese man in Arizona. I can't remember his name (Dave remebers) so I will call him Mr. Cho. Mr. Cho was a very kindhearted soul who became a Christian at U.S.C. before moving to Arizona and attending U. A. Mr. Cho had brought his family out from China. His wife and teenage son and daughter.  One night I learned that Mr. cho was in a very sad state of mind. His 18 year old son had drowned in the pool at the apartment where he was living. (Suicide??) Well Dave and I continued to write to him and about 8 months after the death I had a chance to visit he and his wife. both were still very devistated (The wife had been in a mental hospital) ( I guess that for Asians suicide/death is very very all the more devistateing???)   So during the evening Mr. Cho and I got caught up on a lot of info.  Towards the end of the time he mentioned to me about a brother from his Chinese fellowship in Arizona. He related to me that this man became very concerned over the fact that Mr. Cho and wife still seemed to be grieving long after he felt they should. He decided to take them aside and have a talk. "Why are you still grieving?"  "Come-on"  "Get over it!"  "You need to put this behind you and start rejoicing like the Bible says."  O.K. right about now you may be thinking to yourself, "This guy was right in doing this!" And I  would agree with you. He was doctrinally right!  He was scriptual! Mr. Cho however did not respond in the way that this brother wanted. So the brother continued to "encourage him"  UNTIL...one evening the news told about a passenger airliner that crashed during take-off at Chicago O'hare  airport. this same man's son was on the plane!  Sadly his son to was taken from him!!!!  This man I was told did not rejoice in this trial! What do you think I ;earned from this conversation??? What would you have learned??

This is kind of like the scenario where you observe someone's kids acting up and you say, "My kids will never do that", and then you have kids and your kids do that and worse sometimes.

Most people admit that losing an offspring would be a major trial to them.  Suicide makes that doubly so.  One would hope that after a season that the pain would dull and the trial would not be the focus of their lives.  My brother-in-law died a few years ago.  It was difficult and shocking at the time, but now I believe that my in-laws are truly appreciating, moreso than before, the other 5 kids that remain alive.  Can good come out of trials?  Definitely yes.

I'm curious, what did you learn from Mr. Cho's story David?

Marcia

P.S.  Is this the same Chinese professor that GG used to talk about?  Did GG lead this prof to the Lord?

Marcia

[David Mauldin]

Marcia, thanks for being the first to respond to the original point. I'd would like to say I learned to be careful how I judge others. I'd like to say I learned that it is pretty simple to see how others don't own up to Biblical standards, "rejoicing in season and out of season"  It's pretty simple to preach at them and yet we really have no idea what it is like to be them. We don't know what is going on inside them. We know the scriptures! We can tell them, "Hey" "Get with the program!" "Come-on" "Mr. Cho!" "It's all right here in the book!" "2 + 2 = 4" But the truth is that if we were in that persons shoes we would find impossibilities just the same. Another TRUE story I would like to relate is one I remember pretty clearly. It began around the same time I "came into fellowship."  A young woman, Jenny Sutton, (she was not Sutton at that time) was involved in a car accident.  I use to play basketball with her fiance" Randy. Well she went through a long rehab. it wasn't an easy thing for her to do. So let's move on about 8 months down the road. One evening after the prayer mtg I'm just hangin out on the House of Prayer when I hear this wretched noise. The sound of metal on metal grinding into itself. Jenny was just hit by a drunk driver speeding past the House of prayer!  O.k. here we go again. She is banged up pretty bad. She pulls through intensive care and begins rehab all over again. So I hope you are following this. About 5 months along some well meaning brothers paid her a visit in the hospital. they were very concerned about her attitude. They were conserned  that she wasn't rejoicing in her trial.  This visit just made her feel like #$#% Years later I remember her giving her testimony. "People don't really know/understand what I was going through." Marcia, I can tell you that it is pretty easy for me to hate people who do these things!  I hate people who have life by the tail! Thay get up everyday and life for them is a simple board game where the dice have all winning numbers. These same people look around and smirk at others inability to "get a grasp" on it. They are arogant bastards and ignorant pigs!  Yet how many times did I do the same thing?  Yes I did it to.  It scares me when I remember some of the things I said to people. I hope they don't remember. I hope they don't hold it against me. I would like to think that when i am around people who are suffering, or mentally ill, or human beings like myself, I just keep my mouth shut and my mind open.

[M2]

David,

Most of us on board would agree with you that there is a need to re-evaluate assembly tactics of spiritual growth and maturity.  Many are very cynical as a result of the abuse they suffered while "in fellowship".  I remember being quite grieved by the insensitivity of some of the counsellors, but, not being a LBW nor a worker, I had no say in the matter.  So I just befriended the victims.  Like you, however, I also used the same tactics on a number of occasions.  Many of us throw the whole confrontation aspect out the window because it reminds us of those hypocrites and pharisees of our assemby days eh??

I remember hearing of Jenny's accident and praying for her.  Though the story was different, some in Ottawa received some advice from the mouth of well meaning saints that I felt was untimely.  Then there was the other extreme where the counsellee was eternally dependant on the counsellor, which did not really help the counsellee "grow up in Christ".  There is a time for everything....

You said, "I learned to be careful how I judge others."
To use your ex-fiancee as an example.  You have made an assessment about her situation, but you are saying that you are not going to confront her about it.  Fair enough.  If she was to ask your opinion however, would you hold back the truth?

You also said, "I would like to think that when i am around people who are suffering, or mentally ill, or human beings like myself, I just keep my mouth shut and my mind open."
I think what you are talking about here is the need for social grace and politeness and giving the person the freedom to learn and grow.

This is related so I bring it up here.  Someone made an interesting observation this week.  The 'weak' members of the body can use their weakness to control the 'strong' members and thus end up actully being stronger than the strong.  Another form of abuse.

God bless,
Marcia

[David Mauldin]

Marcia, I appreciate everything you have said. With my ex I confronted her!  Over and over. But you come to a point where you realize the situation is beyond your "expertise". You come to a point where you just put the person in a box and say "It's their issue and they don't want to change!" Or you can come to a recognition that maybe you really don't know all the ins-outs.  When dealing with people I think it would behoove us to choose phrases like , "Have you considered....?"  "I don't really understand where you are at but maybe...." "This might work for you...."  If a person comes across as "I speak with full authority" on an issue then they are taking the place that only an omniscient/omnipotent God can take. Many a person has done harm to themselves because thay felt so lonely, isolated, misunderstood. It is a very serious thing to put youself in the place of "I know what is right for you!" position. Working with kids I have come to realize that I have limits, issues and I don't know everything. Throughout my life I have met a few people who were perfect and didn't have any issues. one was named George.

[M2]

David,

There's a chapter on Ministry in Dietrich Bonhoeffer's book Life Together.  He mentions that in order to effectively 'preach' one must first have truly listened to the other, otherwise it becomes just so many words.  Unfortunately, I cannot find my copy of the book to refer to it.

Not many know how to 'listen', because they are so busy preparing a word to tell.

Looks like your students are blessed to have you as their teacher.

God bless,
Marcia

[David Mauldin]

Thank you for the kind words, my wife and my 3rd graders love the penguine (I didn't let my 3rd graders read anything.) I can remember reading an article in a Plymouth Bretheren Magazine. (A soft/fuzzy version of the Torch) In it an itinerate minister related an experience he had. He said that he was conducting a series of mtgs at an assembly/ the mtgs were very sobering and introspective.  During a break he couldn't help overhearing a brother being jovial and giving out an occasional laugh. He thought to himself, "What is with this guy?"  "Why is he in such spirits when we are considering such serious topic like repentance?"  The minister decided to ask the brother to have lunch with him.  The brother was happy to so they made an appointment to meet the next day. On his way to pick him up the minister went over a series of verses he thought he would discuss with Mr. Jovial. After picking him up the brother had an errand he needed to do. This was to visit his wife in the hospital. The minister learned that the man's wife was in a comma after having an aneurism 6 months earlier. While they drove the minister also learned some other things about the state of the man's children. They had taken bad paths etc.... Before they even made it to the resturant the minister "forgot" all that he wanted to talk to this guy about. He realized that this mans laugh was just a release from the stresses and tensions of his reality. O.K. I've said enough. A new documentary is out on Deitrich. You can get it at Blockbuster video. He is a popular guy at my church!