Is it fair to call the Assembly a CULT?

[guest]

I just have a question for people who say that the assembly
is a cult. When you say assembly are you referring to fullerton or every assembly?

[Rudy]

Cult would refer to the geftakys system.
That of course would mean "all" assemblies.
There has been speculation that not all
assemblies are the same. But in light of
the west coast and now the midwest, it's
business as usual - they are all still in the
system, nothing has substantially changed.

[4Him]

Was not my intent to minimize the cultishness and abusiveness of the Geftakys System but it is not "A Cult" in the strictest sense (Moon, Mormons, JW's, etc.) Abusive? Harmful? Yes, w/o a doubt.  But doctrinally it has been more in the mainstream than out (and don't tire me again with that 7th day creation thing, heard it, agree, but not really that big of a deal in the whole scheme of things). Sure, there are some errors in teaching but every Christian group is accused of that.

What would you call the RCC?  Abusive? Secretive? Oppressive? Murderous? Adulterous?  Yes on all counts.

BTW Rudy,
How and where did you come to faith in Christ?  I would be very surprised if it was through the Catholic Church.  If it was, I apologize.

[Peacefulg]

I am in agreement with Tim and others.  Will not say it is a cult, but does have "cult like practices"

Lord Bless,
G

[guest]

I am an ak and have been my whole life. I'm 15 and you can say i'm brainwashed deceived whatever but you don't know me. You've never met me yet you call me corrupt, pompous and deceived. You have to know me before you put me under the same umbrella as GG. I  got on my knees before the Lord and I know that this is where He wants me. so before you say every assembly is a cult go see for yourself

[Andrea Denner]

Dear guest,
Let's put this into perspective.  This is a discussion on opinion of whether people should label the assemblies as a cult.  But most of this site is devoted to the error that has been propogated as a whole, and also errors propogated at particular locations.  Pray as you read what is on this site, you will find that there is truth here.  Yes, you will find occassional slant, but that happens in any conversation.

Andrea

[psalm51]

I am an ak and have been my whole life. I'm 15 and you can say i'm brainwashed deceived whatever but you don't know me. You've never met me yet you call me corrupt, pompous and deceived. You have to know me before you put me under the same umbrella as GG. I  got on my knees before the Lord and I know that this is where He wants me. so before you say every assembly is a cult go see for yourself

Dear guest,
No one is calling you "corrupt, pompous, and deceived". They are just pointing out cult-like practices in the assembly.  You are very young. Many of the people posting were involved longer than you have even been alive.  Before you jump to conclusions read and consider what is being said very carefully. I am fairly certain that many of the posters on this BB have seen for themselves and are hoping that you will "see" things very clearly. I hope you continue to walk very closely to the Lord. I know one thing for sure He is the Great Shepherd.
Pat

[Tony Rosete]

It is amazing to me that there are still people saying "that 7th day thing" is not a big deal.  Not only does it require complete manipulation of the scriptures to get there, it violates fundamental historical christian teaching, and it totally destroys the teaching of new testament sabbath rest.  It's not important that we as New Testament believers can rest from our works as He did from His?  As long as GG was not teaching that Jesus and Satan were brothers, it's ok then?

And of course the conditional inheritance thing has been mentioned time and time again on here, but that is once again foundational christian teaching, and in my opinion corrupts the work of Christ on the cross - thus making it heresy, and thus making it a cult.  No the GG assembly was never drinking purple koolaid or trying to hop onto  the Hale Bob comet, but their practices and heretical teachings do qualify it as such - in my opinion.  

[Margaret]

Another point to consider:  If GG's definition of salvation means you can be saved but end up not being part of the Bride of Christ, not being with Christ for eternity, in fact, end up not being in heaven but in the lake of fire--is this the same gospel preached by the apostles?

[A Voice of Concern]

People want me to identify myself and I have:  I am a voice of concern who still loves the saints.  I am male so that, according to the Assembly’s interpretation of the Bible, gives me the right to share a word.  (Forgive the joke in this serious matter!)  I am sharing what I have learned from my own experiences.  I have done a lot of research, years of soul searching and much praying.  I should clarify what I meant by the word cult.  

In the past, Christians tended to define cults like JWs and Mormons by what they believed, i.e., a cult is a heretical sect of Christianity.  But this is dangerous way to define a cult because a group might preach the gospel but the group dynamics could have a negative affect on the lives of the members, e.g., if the members are treated like children by those in leadership positions.  (I am talking about control that stunts the growth of people as individuals before God, metaphorically much like a mother who smothers her child and never allows it to let go of the apron strings.) The Assembly’s belief system dictates a very clear code of conduct that does not allow for people to decide God’s will for themselves or act as they think God would want them to.  This is wrong and very dangerous because it stunts one’s growth as a Christian.  People in cults are robbed of their ability to think for themselves and sometimes need to be deprogrammed or take time away from the cult before they can see the true affect the cult had on their life.

Most modern definitions of “cult” are not primarily concerned with what a group believes, but defines what the group is (power structure, etc.) and its sway over the members.  For example, Marc Galanter’s book, Cults:  Faith, Healing and Coercion,  avoids the word cult because it conjures up mental images like Jim Jones’ the People’s Temple or David Koresh’s Branch Davidians. Thus, he uses the term “Charismatic group” in lieu of cult which he defines as “a close-knit community defined by the following characteristics:  It has a strongly held belief system and a high level of social cohesiveness; its members are deeply influenced by the group’s behavioral norms and impute a transcendent (or divine) role to their leader.”  (This defines the Assembly perfectly!)  Thus, what makes a group a cult is not what they believe, but how they practice what they believe and how the group dynamics affects the members.  To me, a cult is any group that exercises excessive control, authority or influence over the lives of its members to such a degree that they are dependant on that group and cannot think or act for themselves because the group will attempt to influence them unduly through various physiological tools like guilt trips, monitoring schedules and finances (“being accountable”), discouraging independence, and (what a cult-like concept!) find the mind of the Lord together to show the unity of the saints, etc.  

Now is it just Fullerton and the California Assemblies that are a cult?  George had workers who submitted to him because under the agreement of being a worker they had to be loyal and dedicated to his ministry that clearly defined the truth and the will of God.  Over time, different rules or standards were instituted by various people and communicated to the workers in the worker’s meetings.  The various workers were in authority in all the Assemblies (placed there ultimately by George and others) and would then share George’s and others’ interpretation of God’s will and truth to others and expect them to follow it “for the sake of the testimony.”  People in the local Assembly are encouraged to submit (not “act independently”), obey the leadership (that passage in Hebrews means “be persuaded by” in Greek, meaning there is choice there to accept what they say), seek counsel, find the mind of the Lord together, etc SO the regular laity of the Assembly submitted to the will of George through his workers who were in positions of leadership in the local Assembly.  If there were ever any disagreements with conforming to the supposed will of God, workers would call other workers or even George who would make a pronouncement that was supposed to be accepted.  Therefore, there is no autonomy of the local Assembly and certainly no autonomy of the individual to decide the will of God for themselves because the will of God has already been clearly defined.   So, with this direct link from George (and other revered leaders) to all the local Assemblies, the beliefs and coercive practices that his ministry has instilled in its many members are present in every Assembly.  Going to one Assembly is like going to McDonalds:  you know what to accept because they serve the same beliefs and practices with a side order of spiritual pride of being THE place that God has chosen to have the most light.  

Cults, by the way, always claim that THEY are the only one or the best of the best... just like the Assembly teaches.

[Oscar]

I talked on the phone a few years ago to a brother who had been kidnapped and deprogrammed out of the assembly, but I can't remember his name.
I think the deprogramming process essentially does what GG's exposure has done to the assembly faithful.  It jerks the lid off the garbage can.
The deprogrammers hammer away at issues like the leader's credentials and character until the subject cannot deny it.
The problem is, it IS illegal.  They try to avoid legal issues by having close relatives directly involved.  Who wants to see mom behind bars?
But there have been some cases where Moonies or such have prosecuted family.
Tom M.

[Susan McCarthy]

The person you are referring to is Brian Steele of Santa Barbara.  His mother is friends with my mother in the Bay Area.  Since his "deprogramming", Brian is married with a family, walking joyfully with the Lord in a healthy church, and lives in Washington State.  

The deprogramming does not take away the Holy Spirit, for the Lord promises that no one can snatch us out of His hand.  What the process did was bring Brian to the place where he could get back to his simple faith in the love and grace of Christ, and the sufficiency of the cross.

[Mark C.]

Hi Susan!
  Yes indeed, I heard from Brian about his deprogramming and have a letter from him that describes his experience.
   The Assembly practiced something called, "millieu control" where you only recieve the info. they want you to hear and label anything negative about the group as, "of the Devil, etc.".  This is a cultic characteristic and Brian was taken out of the control and was provided with an alternate view of the Assembly.
   This kind of control is not possible in the Assm. now, in the same way as it was practiced pre GG excomm. days.  However, if the axe is not taken to the Assm. root system another toxic cult like organization could take it's place.
   If one has trouble with using the word "cult" for fear it is lumping Christian's in with JW's then use the term Paul used for the Galatians and call such teaching and practice cursed.              God Bless,  Mark

[another guest]

wow, in my short time in one of the so-called "assembly" fellowships, i've never felt forced in any way by the leadership with regards to "rules" and the like...well, except that all have a duty to do what "overseers" do (i.e. no clergy-laity).
i find some practices i read in these msgs kinda surprising. my take...the place i go to ain't a cult. and since i've never been to the others, i wouldn't know.
something i've noticed though--visitors from other assemblies find us in our "natural" settings (out of the meetings) odd, as if we didn't know some code or something. hmmm...

[Brian_Steele]

Well, this is timely!  I just found this site tonight and made a (long) post about my deprogramming (see "Deprogrammed -Brian Steele's Santa Barbara Exit").  By the way, Mark it is great to hear from you and many thanks for the discussions you had with me.  Much appreciated.  Greetings also Tom Maddux, David Maudline, Dean Halverson, Patrick and Shelly Evert, Jason Cox.  My appologies for not keeping in touch but I'd be glad to catch up.

After leaving the Assembly via an involuntary intervention (i.e. deprogramming) I went to Wellspring Retreat and Resource Center in Ohio.  Wellspring is a rehab center for cult victims.  During my time there I met 5 other cults victims from different groups including Bible-based groups and New Age Groups.  Though we came from different organizations the similarities in our experiences were striking.  Meeting many cult victims subsequently, I am still amazed, to this day, that I have common ground with people from political, business, new age, Bible-based, eastern, and sci-fi cults.  Though different cults hold different doctrine, the methods of manipulation and control are they same across all boundaries.  

Robert J. Lifton studied thought reform in Communist China.  He identified 8 criteria of control that they used in their "re-education camps".  When Lifton examined cults in the United States he found identical practices of control and manipulation.  These criteria are summarized below.  At one point (years ago) I made a detailed analysis of how the Assembly meets all of these criteria.  I'm in the process of putting this document together and would be glad to send a copy on request (it's about 10 pages long, too big to post here!).

1) Milieu Control:  Control of human communication and information. "To be engineers of the human soul, the leaders must bring it under full observational control, monitoring information and thoughts."

2) Mystical Manipulation: Specific patterns of behavoir that, though provoked from the leaders, seem to have arisen spontaneously.  A heavenly/spiritual reason is given to normal experience.

3) Demand for Purity: The world is divided into absolute pure and impure based on what is inside/outside of the group.  Results in constant shame, guilt, rebuking, exhortation.  Impossibly high standards are required to be met.

4)  Cult of Confession: Because one is constantly failiing, one must constantly confess.  Confession is exploited by leaders.  Confession becomes a public performance (arrogance through self-abasement).    A battle between self-worth and humilty.

5) Sacred Science: Doctrince and beliefs of the group cannot be questioned and are absolutely correct.  Results in a feeling of elitism and uniqueness.   Questioning ldoctrine eads to shunning, excommunication.

6) Loaded Language: Thought-terminating cliche, the language of non-thought.  Shop talk taken to a far extreme, separating the group members from non-members.  Language is limited to group talk, becomes automatic (can I hear a "Praisethelord?") the thought process atrophies from disuse.  Reinforces Milieu Control because one looses the ability to speak clearly with outsiders.

7)  Doctrine Over Person:  human experience is subordinated to the claims of the Sacred Science (doctrine).   Myths of the doctrine replaces actual experience.  Character, personality, identity are reshaped, replaced with the group ideal.  Members forced into a group mold, conformity is a must.

 Dispensing of Existence:  Anybody outside of the group is a non-person, backslider, fallen away, worldly.  To leave the group is to leave God.  Creates an atmosphere of fear.  Involves shunning, excommunication (do I hear, "Loss of inheritance"?).

Most cult experts agree that the above criteria can be present in different degrees for different groups.  However, in tandem, they act to manipulate and control group members.

Ask yourself honestly if the Assemblies meet these criteria.  Again, I will provide a more detailed description of the criteria as well as specifics, in my experience, of how the Assemblies meet the criteria.

See also "Thought Reform and Psychology of Totalism" by Robert J. Lifton.  Chapter 22 describes the 8 criteria in more detail as well.