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Author Topic: Why Leaders Are Responsible  (Read 209572 times)
al Hartman
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« Reply #120 on: May 29, 2003, 12:35:54 pm »




     Yikes???

     Don't you know that older men have had time to make their mistakes & learn from them?

     Besides, everyone says that girls mature more rapidly than boys, so a nice age gap kinda evens things out!!!

al

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editor
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« Reply #121 on: May 29, 2003, 11:05:04 pm »

Al and Eulaha

I am 40.5, and my wife is younger than me.   Uhhhh.....she doesn't "look" a day over her early thirties.....

I told her that I thought is was a great idea for men in their forties to marry young women, in their early twenties.  That way, for the rest of my life, I'll be married to a beautiful young woman!

Seriously, if two people are in love with eachother, and understand that one is older than the other, etc.  and still want to marry, this is great!

I think that perhaps the men are jealous, while I don't know what the woman think. Wink

OK, I think I just poured hot water all over myself with this last post.....

Brent

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Arthur
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« Reply #122 on: May 29, 2003, 11:15:29 pm »

Al and Eulaha

I am 40.5, and my wife is younger than me.   Uhhhh.....she doesn't "look" a day over her early thirties.....

I told her that I thought is was a great idea for men in their forties to marry young women, in their early twenties.  That way, for the rest of my life, I'll be married to a beautiful young woman!

Seriously, if two people are in love with eachother, and understand that one is older than the other, etc.  and still want to marry, this is great!


Al and Eulaha?   Together?   Huh

Did I miss something?
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MGov
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« Reply #123 on: May 29, 2003, 11:51:52 pm »

Al and Eulaha?   Together?   Huh

Did I miss something?

Had a good laugh with that one.

Arthur, you must read the whole thread veeery carefully! Smiley

M
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moose_
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« Reply #124 on: May 30, 2003, 02:43:45 am »

Yes the assembly or maybe politically correct would be to say an assembly is still meeting in omaha. I am not sure of what they are doing, I have enough problems keeping track of my own family. I have been attending diffrent places of worship for about three months. It has been a blessing to meet with a verity of Gods people here in Omaha.

and Brent, if you do come to town, we can put another nail on the wall to hang your coat on.
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« Reply #125 on: May 30, 2003, 03:25:30 am »

Yes the assembly or maybe politically correct would be to say an assembly is still meeting in omaha. I am not sure of what they are doing, I have enough problems keeping track of my own family. I have been attending diffrent places of worship for about three months. It has been a blessing to meet with a verity of Gods people here in Omaha.

and Brent, if you do come to town, we can put another nail on the wall to hang your coat on.

Thanks for the offer Moose!  One thing no one nobody can deny is that Assembly people are definitely some of the most hospitable people in the world.  When pressed by people to say something good about the Assembly, hospitality is always one of the first things that comes to mind.  Especially when they burn cows in the Mid-West!

Brent
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moose_
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« Reply #126 on: May 30, 2003, 04:42:26 am »

 Wink

I don't remember you being at the BBQ, but yes it did get burnt. now I must say it does seem to be a whole cow on the grills out here in the midwest, I beleive that is due to the graciousness of the midwesterners and the large portions typically served.
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Arthur
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« Reply #127 on: May 30, 2003, 10:05:12 am »

Al and Eulaha?   Together?   Huh

Did I miss something?

Had a good laugh with that one.


Hehe Grin   Wink
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al Hartman
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« Reply #128 on: May 31, 2003, 08:53:03 am »




Eulaha, my Dear,

     Apparently, no one yet suspects!
     Shall we come out of the closet???

RSVP,
Your al

     (Now THAT'S an age gap!!!)



« Last Edit: May 31, 2003, 08:55:01 am by al Hartman » Logged
Mark C.
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« Reply #129 on: July 20, 2003, 09:22:06 pm »

Hi MM! Smiley
  I will return to my oft used analogy in regard to, " those who may have had positive Assembly experiences", of Nazi Germany.  Loyalty to the Nazi German govt. brought rewards to individual Germans that most certainly were positive, but this was not the case for those who opposed Hitler.  Can we then say that Nazi Germany was good for some and bad for others?  Most would find such moral relativity repugnant.
  The Assembly was/is not Nazi Germany, and so some would say it is not a fair analogy, but both were authoritarian systems that completely controlled the lives of those under it's power.  Members of the Assembly feared leaving the group thinking that departure would lead to an eternity in outer darkness as a disembodied spirit! Cry  All rebellious Germans faced from the Nazi's was physical death; not nearly as great a loss as eternal separation from Christ in a place of weeping and gnashing of teeth!
   Coupled with the above power of fear the Assembly wielded there was the emotional dependance of individuals on the group for their acceptance; not just the affection of the members that had to be earned, but the necessary "faithful continuance" to earn God's love.
  Now, for those who are part of the power structure and "faithfully" continued the personal rewards were/are substanial:  Adulation/respect from the members, a deep affection, the feeling of being superior, etc.  We all have egos and all this stuff feels great.  It shouldn't be surprising that some present leaders are trying to preserve their positions in the system as their whole reason for being is tied into the group.  It should be obvious that this is an inordinate affection and why these leaders should step down and disband their groups immediately.
  Were there individual acts in the Assembly that were done as unto the Lord by individual believers?  Of course, and these were received from the Lord as sincere, as in the widow who placed the one mite in the box.  Jesus commendation of the Widow was not an endorsement of the erroneous Pharisaical system in Israel.
  Let's be clear in our repudiation of the evil system that GG built, and in our support for individuals seeking recovery from the toxic influences therin.
                                                   God Bless,  Mark    
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jackhutchinson
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« Reply #130 on: July 20, 2003, 11:07:37 pm »

Marcia,

Bingo!

When I first started reading the website and posting questions for the leaders I heard the same reaction that you have:

"There are 2 sides to the story, so we don't want to get just one side.  Besides, you have to be careful not to let the pendulum swing too far the other way in reaction to what you read on the net." (the second part was a reaction from one of the leaders after he supposedly repented)

My response was/is as follows,

"Yeah, and all those years in the assembly we got only one side of the story - the leadership's side.  Those who have told the other side of the story got excommunicated."

"The pendulum has been welded to the wall by the leadership.  Now that the website is up the pendulum can now swing freely."

"Have you read the website?  What specifically is unbalanced about it?"

As you have noticed, the leaders don't like the net because they can't control the information on it.  All they can do is try to discredit it with lame comments like the one you mentioned.

At the end of Terminator 2 the bad terminator re-forms itself after being frozen in liquid nitrogen then shot to pieces.  That's what some of the disbanded assemblies will do - THEY'LL BE BAAACK!

Jack
« Last Edit: July 20, 2003, 11:23:47 pm by Jack Hutchinson » Logged
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« Reply #131 on: July 21, 2003, 01:56:16 am »

Quote
That's what some of the disbanded assemblies will do - THEY'LL BE BAAACK!

One of the ex-SLO leaders has begun "discipling" people here in SLO again.   This ex-LB doesn't tell their new prospect who they are, or what their background is.  The LB doesn't mention the problems with honesty and discernment that they had over the last 20 years, neither does he mention the fact that his leader, GG, and his idol, The Assembly has been overthrown.  No, this ex-LB still thinks he has something to offer and is happy to help a young, unsuspecting man in his walk with the Lord.

I am speaking the the pastor of the Church that this ex'LB attends later today.  I have several conversations with this pastor in the past, regarding this person and the other "saints."

Sadly, it appears that people are still very much addicted to the illusion of power and importance that they enjoyed in George's system.  The thing to do, is to let the leaders from other churches know about these people, who they are and where they came from.  People who were serving George Geftakys with their whole being six months ago, have no business discipling people, and being deceptive about it at that!

Brent
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Eulaha L. Long
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« Reply #132 on: July 21, 2003, 02:55:19 am »

AMEN Brent-I totally agree with you. Smiley
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BeckyW
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« Reply #133 on: July 21, 2003, 04:49:10 am »

A few thoughts on this subject...
Leadership here said we left "because of the web site".
That's not true.  We left because of the information and testimonies on the web site.  Because we finally had access to people and their stories without the leaders here filtering our information, straining out what they didn't think we were "spiritually mature enough" to handle (see worker's characteristics handbook).  I was told all the info. on the web site was like The National Inquirer (a tabloid like "Elvis Lives and Gives Birth" stuff)  Then an LB, when we challenged him about not telling us of all the information out there, said "Rick Ross-they're railers, not even saved!" He said he wouldn't  look at anything himself. (Years ago, they told us the Enroth book was just disgruntled ex-members, and provided discrediting info. on each one so we wouldn't even bother to read it.  And we believed them.) Sad
But now we finally heard the other side of many stories, and God used it all to wake us up.
They could control what we heard to some extent before, and now they can't.  No wonder they don't want the remaining assembly members to read what's on the internet.
If someone staying in an assembly is reading this, are your leaders yet accountable to you with the finances? If not, why are you still putting money in that box?
Have they apologized at all for letting a false teacher in the door all those years?  
For letting themselves be so deceived?  We all should be taking responsibility for that in our own lives, and they even more.
Have you seen Jack Hutchison's article called "Ask Questions" on the assembly reflections web site?
If they balk at your questions, it could be time to vote with your feet and go.  If you lose friends, then I wonder if they were ever truly your friends in Christ anyway.  Maybe they were just "assembly" friends, a quite conditional sort of relationship, in our experience.
Just offering my opinions here, as one who was set free by that broken 'code of silence' and is glad beyond telling.

Becky, in since 1985, out 2003

BTW, That's out of the assembly, but still "in fellowship" with all those who love the Lord Jesus and want to be in fellowship with us.  Smiley
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Will Jones
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« Reply #134 on: July 21, 2003, 06:03:44 am »

Restricting access to information is a common ploy of many "institutions" such as governments, PR agencies, and cults or religious groups.  The information that is either restricted, hidden or discouraged is anything that would deter a member from believing what the group says is true.

The Assembly had/has recommended reading lists and I have heard Assembly leaders "discourage" various books or authors.

The Assembly discouraged close ties with unsaved family members for fear that a saint would be pulled away from the Assembly.

The Assembly discouraged people from being involved in other religious groups or going to other churches.  Why?  You might see the light of your freedom in Christ and your bondage to a manmade system that does not allow members to decide God's will for themselves.

The Assembly discouraged people from taking certain courses at university or working at certain jobs that had fundamental differences in ideas such as military or political work.

The Assembly discouraged people from being critical of the Assembly by labelling such people as "railers," etc.  However, more than a few workers I had dealings with openly talked about the shortcomings of others and why certain people were not "good brothers" or "good sisters."  Such people were not allowed to go on MTT Teams and were often barred from marriage in the Assembly.  These rumors (supposedly the fact of "living in a fishbowl") helped to show who was good because they conformed and who was bad because they did not follow the dictates of the Assembly.  Leaders had the right to criticize others but not vice versa.  (On a few occasions, I brought up issues in certain people's lives and I was told never to do so again and that I did not have the right to do so anymore.)  From what we have read, the worker's meeting and George himself made a habit of criticizing others that did not match up to the Assembly's supposed light.  However, to criticize the Assembly was a major sin and to leave it is to fall away to something less than God's best, something less that includes shunning.  Sadly, according to MM, this is still practiced in one of the old/new Assembly still exists.  Such a tactic basically says that unless you are with us, you will be against us.  Jesus spoke against this practice when there was a man casting out demons in his name but was not part of Jesus' following.  We can only be for or against Jesus himself, not some manmade system of right and wrong.

To preserve the testimony, the old/new Assembly was guilty of trying to cover up problems or ignore them.  One of the ways they deal with/dealt with problems was to "discourage contact" with former members who realize the truth of Galatians 5:1ff.

To leave a place that has basically ruled your life for years takes a lot of bravery because it means beginning a new life free of bondage.  Bondage can be comfortable because you don't have to think--others will tell you what is right, true, how you should act and what you should believe.  What a sad way to live.  The "light" of the mind in bondage is darkness.  It is also hard to give up old habits that come from deeply engrained beliefs.  It is also difficult for leaders to give up the power and prestige they once had AND it is even more difficult for people who are so accustomed to be lead to suddenly start thinking and acting for themselves.

Basically, leaders should only be held partially responsible for the evils in the old Assembly because those in committed fellowship yielded their wills over to the leadership who were following a system of right and wrong imposed from Fullerton/the worker's meeting.  To admit that and leave the Assembly is to be brave, honest and, at the end of the day, free of bondage.

But leaders are/were still guilty of covering up the sins of the Assembly because of the need to "preserve the testimony."  Leaders are also guilty of hiding financial resources and, above all, fostering an environment that openly teaches that the Assembly is better than all other Christian gatherings.  To teach that the Assembly "has the most spiritual light" and is the best place to fellowship implies that to leave is wrong.  Such teaching is cultlike.  

Basically, if old/new Assemblies still exist and still have this "us versus them" teaching then God help them escape from the darkness of spiritual pride!  Nowhere in the Bible does it say one group is allowed to boast that it is better than others.  If the old/new leaders have not repented openly and in practice that such exclusive, cultlike practice is wrong, then it is clear the Assembly system started by George will continue under new leadership.  Very sad indeed.  

In the Psalms it says we should not be like DONKEYS who need to be lead around by others.  Thus, to leave the Assembly system that dictates God's will is to no longer be an ass.  In another thread it talks about how the leadership/worker's meeting instituted a "no-earring rule" that most people blindling followed and accepted as God's will/or a godly example.  Little did people realize at the time that most people in the Assembly had a very real nose ring inserted through their noses that "godly brethren" could yank at any time to get them to go a certain way or do what they want simply because it was labelled as "God's Will/What the Lord wants/a godly testimony."  Thank God I am not the ass that I used to be.   Smiley
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