Similarities to the "local churches" (Witness Lee)
outdeep:
Quote from: Tom Maddux on January 06, 2008, 10:32:37 am
A really good book about the spritual life that is based on a much clearer exposition of scripture is "Being Human" by Ranald Macaulay and Jerram Barrs, (Francis Schaeffer's sons-in-law).
Minor correction: Jerram Barrs was involved with L'Abri from the early days and actually began and ran the England branch. He married Francis Schaffer's secretary but was not related to Dr. Schaffer himself. He is currently at the Francis Schaffer institute at Covenant seminary and has some good online courses:
http://www.covenantseminary.edu
outdeep:
Years ago (around 1991) a few of us met with the Passentinos formerly of Christian Research Institute. I remember Gretchen saying something insightful:
She said essentially that if you went into the Local Church, you would come out with a weird idea of how to get saved as well as how to grow in the Lord. If you came into the Assembly, you would probably have a decent idea of how to get saved but you would have weird ideas of how to grow in the Lord.
This does ring true to me. While there certainly were much similarities in the teaching about the nature of the church, who we were before God, how our worship is better, how to incorporate spiritual truth in our lives, the warfare "us vs. them" mentality, I always (and to this day) felt the Local Church was weirder. They always looked geeky because Witness Lee felt anything other than outdated black shoes and collar shirt was worldly. Whenever I talked with them, they always seemed awkward, strained, forced and nervous. Until the early 1980's, they were much more militant in that they would go to someone else’s outreach (including ours) and take over. I witnessed them busting into one of our campus concerts and passing out their literature.
Some time in the 1990's I stopped in the Living Springs bookstore on Ball Road in Anaheim. I picked up a children's song book that said basically, "God is processed this I know for the Bible tells me so."
I guess we missed the fact that they were doing and believed many of the things that they were because some of the differences were so pronounced.
Side note: one of their biggest hits was around 1978 when their #2 man (I think Max Rappaport) defected from Lee and became very critical. OK, another similarity.
anonXian:
Thank you, Mark, Dave, and Tom, for your comments.
(Mark, I couldn't tell in your response if you were referring to me as "Dave K." You started off that way and then kept saying "you", i.e. "it's a good thing you had Christian training." I'm not Dave K., and I wasn't involved in the Assembly.)
Let me ask you all (and anyone else who reads this), how do you "get over it" after being in a group like this? The difficulty I have is that the local churches contain a lot of truth and healthy things mixed in with the weird things. Now that I'm out, I've visited other Christian groups, and they're okay, but in many ways they're lacking. I finally decided on one, but I still miss what I once experienced in the local churches. Do you see the problem? I can't go back to the local churches because I was there long enough to see some things that were wrong. But I can't feel at home in "Christianity" because I learned a lot of things that make it seem kind of shallow. I meet with a Christian group now because I know it's not good to be alone, and something's better than nothing. But once you've been part of "God's purpose" and left it's not easy to move on.
I realize I'm asking a lot. If it's too much you could just direct me to other places where you've written about these things on the forum here. I'd like to hear your stories about how you moved on with your Christian lives. Do you meet with other Christian groups now? How did you decide where to meet? And how did you replace the teachings you learned (especially the inner life stuff) with healthy teachings?
By the way, Tom, thanks for the links to the criticisms of inner life teachings, that was very helpful.
Mark C.:
Hi Anon!
I was talking to Dave K. and also joining in with the Local Church discussion in my usual confusing manner of conversing here ;). These poor communication skills have gotten me into trouble in the past, but thankfully most contributors are tolerant of me ;)
You (anonXian) have a very good question, and one that many of us struggle with. I have tried to address the issue of adjusting to post Assembly life in the "Wounded Pilgrims" thread on this BB for years now. The issues will be very similar for you as a former member of the Local Church.
What makes the question so difficult is that each one of us is different and what works well for one person is not always helpful to others. Many have found that one of the most helpful things is to just to try and chat about what they're going through with someone who can listen with a sympathetic ear.
I can relate very much to your feelings regarding leaving a place where there is a very strong sense that you are deeply involved with God. When I left the Assembly over 16 years ago I felt like I was living in a void---- left adrift in a great sea of no meaning without a rudder!
There didn't seem to be a place that I could find where I could replace what I felt in my group. (Former members who were not so subjective as I was don't struggle like I have with these emotional issues). You seem to be like I am, in that your relationship with God is one that is deeply felt, not just a matter of theology and reason.
I have discovered that leading with my intuitive perceptions of what is spiritual leads to disappointment. What I mean by this is that trying to experience God via an inner sense can be similar to taking drugs where we are seeking to feel good via an altered state of consciousness. We are no longer seeking God but a thing we call God that is actually an experience that can rise to ecstasy.
The "fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, etc.", so emotions must play a part, but if this is all that we are trying to pursue we are ignoring God. What the Local Church, and the Assm. presumptuously called deeper life was actually a pretty shallow life.
When I first left the group my view of myself was of a believer who was superior to the others in the churches that I visited. My former group was far more committed, intense, disciplined, knowledgeable, and spiritual. I have come to discover that I am no better than the next guy and this working of humility in my soul has been the greatest benefit in my adjusting to post Assembly life.
Humility allows an opportunity to honestly assess our past religious arrogance in our groups that claimed to be so close to God. It helped me to drop the intense effort to keep up an image of spirituality and to be less judgmental of those in the churches where I visited. It also helped me to make a critical evaluation of what is truly spiritual and how my former group was fundamentally flawed in their thinking.
What I'm trying to say is that a fundamental change in how I view spirituality (life with God) has been the most beneficial on my road to adjusting since leaving.
I hope some of my experiences make some kind of sense to you and help you in your recovery.
God Bless, Mark C.
Oscar:
Anon,
I can really empathize with you having gone through the exit process when I left the One True Church. Of course, my OTC was a different one from yours. There were, however, many similarities. As Mark has stated, it really helped to be able to talk about my experiences with a sympathetic brother. In my case it was a pastor.
One of the things that really helped me was some thoughts I had picked up from Dietrich Bonhoeffer's book, "Life Together". Here are a few excerpts from the chapter called "Community".
1. Innumerable times a whole Christian community has broken down because it had sprung from a wish dream. The serious Christian, set down for the first time in a Christian community, is likely to bring with him a very definite idea of what Christian life together should be and to try to realize it. But God's grace speedily shatters such dreams.
2. By sheer grace, God will not permit us to live even for a brief period in a dream world. He does not abandon us to those rapturous experiences and lofty moods that come over us like a dream. God is not a God of the emotions but the God of truth. Only that fellowship which faces such disillusionment, with all its unhappy and ugly aspects, begins to be what it should be in God's sight, begins to grasp in faith the promise that is given to it.
3. Every human wish dream that is injected into the Christian community is a hindrance to genuine community and must be banished if genuine community is to survive. He who loves his dream of a community more than the Christian community itself becomes a destroyer of the latter, even though his personal intentions may be ever so honest and earnest and sacrifical.
An online summary of Bonhoeffer's book can be read at http://www.religion-online.org/showchapter.asp?title=2737&C=2488
Mark's reply to you is very insightful. I want to comment on this part:
Quote
I have discovered that leading with my intuitive perceptions of what is spiritual leads to disappointment. What I mean by this is that trying to experience God via an inner sense can be similar to taking drugs where we are seeking to feel good via an altered state of consciousness. We are no longer seeking God but a thing we call God that is actually an experience that can rise to ecstasy.
Mark is quite correct when he says that the "inner sense" can be similar to taking drugs. In fact, it can be the same thing! The only difference is that we produce the drugs from within ourselves. The drugs are such things as adrenaline and certain endorphins such as dopamine. They can be just as addicting as drugs we injest or inject. Many Christians evaluate their spiritual lives by the state of their feelings. Emotions are important, but are not a replacement for a life of faith and service.
Just remember that Jesus said, "I will build my church". Our job is to accept it for what it is, not for some ideal image that we hold in our minds.
Many blessings,
Tom Maddux
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