God brought me here.

[Luke Robinson]

Dear Older Brother Scott,
Just a few things.

I care because just because you have not seen these things doesn't mean they are not going on all over this country.

I care because these things WERE NOT perpetrated by a man, they were perpetrated by a flawed doctrine.

I care because this same doctrine will remain in force even though GG is temporarily disgraced in most, but not all of his lodges.

I care because your dad and my dad were good friends once.

I care because if no one else does, this will start up again within a year.

Do you want some more, little brother? There's lots!

Scott

Well, on the first couple of things, I am going to take your word for it, because Lord knows it I never saw these things.  Oh, are you sure these things are happening all over the country?  I could reverse that and say, "Just because you HAVE seen these things doesn't mean they're going on all over the country."  It works both ways.  

Secondly, these things were perpretrated by many men who were not following God's word.  The only doctrine, me and many others in the assemblies have lived by is God's word.  I am sorrowful over those who aren't.  And praying for them.

Thirdly, you are jumping to conclusions.  Just because GG started this work, doesn't mean that it will end with him.  So many things are changing.  Just keep your eyes open and pray.  Again, we could reverse it, just because you believe George's doctrine will continue in the assemblies doesn't mean that it will.  Let's calm down and hope the best about what God is doing in all of these places.

Lastly, how do you know it will happen again in a year?  God only knows.

A Brother in Christ,

Luke Robinson

[brad]

Guys....

Come on...obviously we need to let some our disagreements remain and embrace our common ground. ...it will take some time for all of us to come to grips with these devastating revelations.

[Guest]

Luke,
Would you know it, if you are deceived??

[Luke Robinson]

Dear Guest:

God would let me know.  And He would not give me peace about the place where I was attending.

A Brother in Christ,

Luke Robinson

[Scott McCumber]

I'm sorry guys, I thought the question was, "Why do you CARE so much?"

Caring is an emotional word. The question was not, "What were the doctrinal issues that caused you to leave this fellowship?"

I drew upon MY experience to explain my caring. It was not anger, it was passion. And it explains why I am not going after the Jehovah's Witnesses.

I know you're sincere, Luke, and I never questioned you personally. But you asked for an explanation as to why so many people here "care" about this issue. I'm guessing my list is similar to many others on this board.

Scott

[brad]

Luke,

Let me humbly suggest that all of us..( Scott, Guest, Brent etc..) were at some point as convinced and protective of our local Assembly fellowship as you...maybe even more so. And you are absolutely correct...GOD did reveal our deception and lead us into a different understanding of his will and ways.

I would refer you back to point made by our "Guest"....? How would you know if you were decieved? Hmmmm...interesting idea, and maybe GOD is speaking to you about this via...this BB? Deception is not a sign of weakness or failure...it is a gradual and dawning awareness of your true situation. I cannot claim to say that you or anyone is or are currently decieved. What is for sure...is you have some very hard and difficult weeks ahead of you. Rest assured this is not about being "right"...but being responsible. Pray about these irritating comments and let GOD's HOLY SPIRIT sift the wheat from the chaff

He does work in mysterious ways....just a thought.

Peace....

[Phil Strangman]

Scott,

If that is one of the basic tenets of the Geftakys doctrine (what you told me), than I'm pleased to say that I don't follow that or believe it any more. It's true that I was raised with an attitude that I was in the "best place", I heard it from time to time in the preaching. However, I think people are changing here. I have not heard that kind of preaching recently here, to the best of my recollection. Hopefully we will never hear it again. So, if George wanted the second generation to grow up and continue that way of thinking, he failed in at least me, because I don't buy it anymore.

Someone who's been a good friend of mine for over 10 years (and I'm only 19!) is Baptist. Me and him have a great time anyway! As a matter of fact, God willing he is going to be playing with me and a couple of others at a coffeehouse outreach that some people from fellowship are putting on next month! I know he has a walk with the Lord. It's different than mine, because I was raised more rigorously (as you all know), but I'm starting to see some things differently (as a result of what's been going on), and he wants to start a personal devotional himself! (as we'd call it, a "quiet-time")

Brad,

I'm 19 and live in the St. Louis metro area. As a matter of fact, I and my mom are huge fans of Rich Mullins' music, and I own a Fernando Ortega CD as well. I'm aware of almost every single thing you mentioned. Like I mentioned, I have sweet fellowship with one of my best friends who has been Baptist his whole life and walks with the Lord. I am definitely learning about not to be 'exclusive'.

Also, pray for those of us who still do the UMSL Bible Study here. We have a desire to establish good contact with Campus Crusade at school and clear up any misunderstanding. Daniel has a desire for the Christian groups here to get together to put on a big event. This is definitely something wonderful that could happen. We offer a Bible Study on Wednesdays if that's the best time people can come! What I'm seeing now about campus ministry is that I'm there to share Jesus Christ with people and help them walk with God, nothing more, nothing less. No grabbing them into fellowship.

Peace my brothas and sistas

[brad]

Phil,

That is awesome....I hope and pray that things will remain that way...
Tell Danny Edwards....I praying for my brother!

As far as the "outside" world of Christians...bro you are there. Might as well "re-name" your gathering...cause its not the place I grew up. If the past comes back to haunt you...reflect on this time and these many wise suggestions.

God Bless...and watch your self...by the way I still feel 19 and luv to jam with a good ripping Audio A rift or two...

B.

[Scott McCumber]

Sorry, guys, had to slip away long enough to play Little Bear and read "The Puppy Who Wanted a Boy" with my daughter!

Phil, I have heard that often enough from you and Luke and Luke S to believe it is true and I think it is an important shift.

It certainly is becoming more obvious that some of the local fellowships have managed to slip free their bonds over the past few years. Maybe your parents were inspired by their love for you!

I am very glad you are having these opportunities and I hope you make the most of them. When I was a teen in the Assembly the edict came down hard from Tim Geftakys - "contemporary Christian music is forbidden! It is as bad as secular rock because the evil rhythms lead to demon possession and licentious acts!" I kid you not!

I hope these local fellowships have distanced themselves far enough from the original Geftakys doctrine that you can lead the Christian life intended for you.

Oh, yeah, it's DC Talk for me, but I haven't heard anything new from them in a while!

Scott

[brad]

Scooter this is buford earl...

Well said my brother...I am off to read "Pirate Island Adventure" with my 7year old..Bethany Rose.

You gotta get the solo versions of Toby Mac and the gang, not DC talk. I would HIGHLY recommend Audio Adrenaline latest album...as far as that goes.

Gang, its been real...

Peace.

[lemonlime]

I'm just gonna jump right on in here, if that's okay.

Firstly, to Luke R.

I'm rejoicing in that you have found the place God has for you. In fact, I think it's awesome that you have decided to stay because if the assemblies are not going to disperse, they will need alot of emotional repair and they need bretheren (and sisteren) with strong walks with the Lord. And they already do, even if they do disperse.
I'm not saying this is the road for everyone ever involved with the assembly. What I am saying is that the assemblies need prayer and encouragement now more then ever. All christians don't belong to this particular place of worship. Of course they don't. God calls people to different ministries and I think it is awesome that you have heard the Lord's voice and are at peace.

To Scott:

I completely understand where you are coming from, as well as Luke. I think it is important to see that God is at work in the assemblies right now. If the Lord leads the assemblies to remain, then praise the Lord! I know this is difficult... it is for most of us. I know I'm having a hard time... I went through alot in the assembly myself. Not as much as you, but I know how you are feeling. I know the fear that GG will return to his "throne". And it is important for you to say everything you said. But I think Luke R. said it more clearly then I can:

Just because GG started this work, doesn't mean that it will end with him."

YES! Praise the Lord, there is HOPE! Don't give up on them Scott. Remember that God wields miracles. This isn't something that can be fixed by human hands. The emotional, physical, mental, spiritual damage inflicted by this ministry is incurable to us. We can't help ourselves. But that is why we have God. Prayer is our greatest power. Let us join together and use it as one, not bicker over trivial things like the place God has put us. You can work for God in a den of lions, and Jesus is with His children through the flames. So why not in a gathering of damaged souls?
Much Love in Christ,
Emily

[stovros]

I am curious about the ways in which the assemblies have strayed from the Bible.  Could someone give me a basic list of what they believe to be faulty teachings by george?  

[lemonlime]

stovros, it's difficult to say... you see, as GG has loudly stated over the years, he has preached on every verse in the bible, and had it on tape. theres a couple issues in Doctrinal Issues that might help. For an actual list, i dont really know...

[Scott McCumber]

Emily,

You amaze me.

I bet your dad is really proud of you!

And your big brother, even though you called him a jerk

Doh! Was that a secret?

All hail, the POSTRIX!

Scott

[Scott McCumber]

Greg,

That has been a big issue for many years. My contention is that the attitude sprang from the teaching. Kind of a chicken or egg quandary, huh?

Scott