AssemblyBoard

Dear Verne,
Thank you for making this public. The individual you are referring to is Jerry Robinson. I was shocked when that letter was read. How dare he just slink off like some rat and leave his sheep like that? The Robinson family always looked down on other families and I think they knew that they would be facing some major questions from us. They're very responsible for hurting the flock and they will be judged by God for it.

I hope they are not going to the upcoming wedding. Sure, they'll see the saints if they have to at weddings. If they have to answer questions though from unhappy saints, well that's too bad. In fact, if the Robinsons go to the wedding, we're not. What kind of example are they to the flock? What kind of parents are they? They allowed their sons (although both Luke and Paul are adults) to come on here and insult every person who looked at them side wise. Their presence at the happy occasion of a wedding would just dampen spirits. Do the wedding guests a favor and stay home.

Thanks for speaking out. The most painful aspect of the fall of the Geftakys ministry is the shattering of the illusion I had of so many of these men, some I knew and admired for long years...let us continue to pray for God's mercy...
Verne

I find this very interesting Verne.  I was under the impression that you are for the assemblies disbanding and everyone going to other church gatherings.

M

I'm glad I'm not in fellowship in a gathering where attitudes like this prevail.  I suggest that you 'air' this out with Mr. Robinson himself, before publically condemning him and his family.

M

This is a STL problem.  MOST, if not ALL, LBs have acknowledged the part they have played in 'co-operating' with GG to keep his ministry going, and are very humble at this point in time.
M

WHAT IS THIS????  WHO ARE YOU???
If you want to publicly denounce someone, the least you could do is put your name on here.  What are you afraid of?  This seems like one of those fake posts that are used to illicit responses.

Verne,
I would also ask you what the deal is with your problem with this family?  I LOVE the Robinsons.  I thought, like MGov, that you wanted everyone to leave the assemblies.  Don't you think that they have repented of their involvement?  Are you saying that they left in the wrong way?  What were they supposed to do?  

Sincerely questioning,
Andrea

NO WONDER Luke and Paul post what they post. I had no idea they were LB kids!!!  That explains a lot of why they sometimes seems to support the Assembly's corrupt teachings!  I actually feel sorry for them now... :o

 ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???
Did I say something wrong....??
Were you in fellowship in St. Loius? I was not...'sides, as Tina said:
"What's love got to do with it...?"
I thought we were primarily interested in truth on this BB...
Verne

Who's Tina? and why did she say that?  I'm puzzled.
M

Tina Turner... ;D ;D ;D
Verne

MGov:
Verne was quoting a song from Tina Turner "What's love got to do with it."

Verne:
I am curious too. You say you are for healing and yet you did your best to damage Paul and Luke Robinson when they were on this BB. As their elder, you surely had a responsibility to set a good example for them, and you didn't, sir. Then you start a thread trying to discredit their parents based on the observations of a blind man - a man who has sent many false rumors out there about the Robinsons to random people not even involved in the St. Louis assembly (like the both of us for example). I guess it's no surprise that you'd be one of the first to post in this thread. You're going to be held accountable for hurting God's people, Verne.

Eulaha:
You are even more guilty of Verne. Even on this thread you couldn't resist getting in an insensitive jab at Luke and Paul. I've noticed you don't seem to get along with the younger people on this board - why is that? I understand that Paul and Luke out-discerned and out-witted you on numerous occasions - but you will find examples in the Bible of the young (L and P)outdiscerning the older (you). I'm also very sorry that your "healing" involves hurting others. That's what leads me to believe that much of brent's old website is diabolical. Do you think God's plan for your healing involves lashing out at people incessantly. Look at your posts, they're all attacks. I stopped attacking people a while ago. Can't you try it to? You too will be held accountable for hurting God's people, Eulaha.

Sister in St. Louis,
Hi there. I'm not from STL, and I don't know the Robinsons. But I'm confused. If you disliked the Robinsons so much, why would you be upset if they left the assembly? Wouldn't you be relieved? If they felt that God was leading them away from the assembly, then who are you to tell them that they should stay? I think maybe you miss them. Did you attach yourselves to them and so it was hard for them to leave? It's always uncomfortable when God gets us out of our comfort zone and people that we are very familiar with go somewhere else. Remember, life's all about changing - nothing ever stays the same. Nothing, but God and His word stays the same. All the things of the world change everyday. Friends that you used to have will move away, and new friends will come into your life. In the assembly, we're not used to change as much, so the past few months have been difficult. Just hang in there and don't hurt people out of frustration. Someone wrote me about the Robinsons once with the same thing that you said. But in the same letter, the man wrote that the Robinsons cooked for his family, prayed over his kids, visited with them, etc. They served him and served him well. So imagine my suprise when in the next paragraph he said exactly what you said in this thread. How easily he forgot all the Robinsons did for him. The Robinsons aren't obligated to be this man's slave, and they're not obligated to you in the same way. After you and this man attacked them, do you think they will want to be around you? They have to protect their children. They are doing the best thing they can. They didn't receive the honor and esteem for their service that the Lord calls on the saints to give them, but God's justice is the best. The Lord knows the truth.
Lord bless.
- Matt

Some other thoughts, STL sister:
If you thought everyone was looking down on you, do you think that could be your insecurity? Why didn't you leave if you felt you were being treated in an ungodly manner?

Also,  I was thinking. That wasn't the Lord directing you to post, was it? Do you think that's what the Lord would say - I'm not going to the wedding if that STL sister is going. Do you think he would personally insult them - they would just dampen spirits if they were there. It seems to me that you are trying to dampen spritis on this thread, sister. Please, don't do this, don't let the enemy work on you. The Lord is love.
- Matt

Matt,

Let me give you my perspective on this whole deal here....

You seem to always want to put the ownership of the problems that the assembly created back on the people who were hurt or wronged.  I have read things you have wrote that say that if people didn't like the message of the assembly or the way they were treated, they just should have left...

It just doesn't work this way.  In a nutshell, many people were obviously disgruntled or unhappy with many things that went on with the assembly.  However, they chugged along based on the fact that they were convinced and led to believe that this is where God wanted them, that their disgruntled and unhappy feelings were selfish feelings and the devil subtly working - blah, blah, blah - you get the point.  Then all of this sudden, this ministry was exposed for what it truly was.  People discovered that this was not a ministry God raised up, rather just the opposite.  People had given their lives to this ministry only to find out that they had essentially given their lives to something that was completely different than what they had thought.   Obviously, people are going to be unhappy.  

So therefore, if people are unhappy in different assemblies because when issues came to light, that instead of being accountable, leadership ran off and hid, please understand where they are coming from.

Okay this has gone far enough.  

I haven't bothered wasting my time on this silly website until my relatives have been thoroughly slammed and slandered in this ridiculous public forum.  I am absolutly sick and tired of the nonsense that is passed off as "lively discussion" or as people who were "hurt" and need some coddling.  Folks....news flash.....move on with your life (if you have one).  I have a couple personal notes to people as well.

Tony Edwards:  I am appalled at your behavior and ridiculous slanderous lies.  I have watched in stunnded silence as private message after private message was brought to light.  Right now I am so infuriated at you I can barely type.  The latest lie is that Paul R. was kicked out of the assembly because of homosexual tendiences.  WHAT ROTTEN FILTH!!!!! I am telling you up front that you need to stop your crusade and get on your knees and repent.  Oh, I'm sorry or are you to busy typing on your keyboard already in response to my post.

To the sister in St. Louis:

Please feel free to inform me of your name so I can avoid you at all costs.  If this is how you feel about my relatives I would prefer not to ever have any form of communication with someone as arrogant as you.  Thank you for your sly little post, but since you are still ashamed to show your name I don't think you are worthy of any more of my time.  

A lot of this crap is getting really old get over and move on.  The gathering formely known as "The assembly" has become your idol all over again.  MOVE ON AND LET IT GO.

 ?? ??? Saint Louis Sister,
This is one of the saddest things i have read on this bb. I know all of the sisters in stl and i can't beleive anyone sister would write this. So needless to say i am very saddned by this.I will pray for you.
Carolyn Dodorico

I'm not a moderator here, but if I was I would say this:

If you want to accuse someone, and use their name, it is only fitting to use your own name.  Anonymous accusation is pretty high up on the coward-scale.  

On the other hand, if I reacted to every anonymous accusation leveled at me, I would probably still have to react to 100 or so.  I got used to it, and let them roll off my back, because they were false.  The strong reaction to what "Saint Louis Sister" said is actually giving her(he? who knows?) far more credibility than she/he/it deserves.  

As far as I am concerned, nothing in her post should be believed or acted upon, because without a name attached, there is absolutely no way of knowing whether part, or all of it is fabricated.

Anonymous posts should be limited to comments about already public material.  Personal attacks, accusations, or evidence from anonymous sources should be ignored, unless they can be substantiated independently.

Even journalism follows these standards.  Certainly Christians should do the same.

Unless it can be verified that Jerry Robinson did do what he is accused of, we should pay no attention to the post.  Was Verne referring to Jerry Robinson in the quote above?  I don't know, and neither does Saint Louis Sister, because Verne doesn't say.   Verne??  Care to comment?

Now, as far as slinking away like a rat, looking down on other families, etc.  I would be willing to listen if I knew who I was speaking with, and heard some examples of why they came to those conclusions.  Until we can put a name and a face on something like this, it is baseless and without merit, IMHO.

2 or 3 witnesses people!  That's the standard.  Also, the first to plead his case seems right, until his neighbor comes and examines him.  Be careful......

Also, the point here is not to publicly display dirt on people, but to expose the Assembly system in order to learn from our mistakes.  Failure to do the above almost guarantee's that we will repeat the error in the future.

Brent

dear st. louis sister
i can hardly believe someone actually had the nerve to write such an outrageous post. i haven't read this website for a number of months and am only writing now because of that unbelievable post.
the robinson's were a faithful part of the st. louis assembly giving more of their time and effort than you can ever know. i cannot BELIEVE that you actually had the nerve to say he slinked off like a rat! How in heaven's name can you blame him after 20 YEARS of serving the saints and people turning on them and accusing them without them able to defend themselves
all i have to say is.... shame on you
hannah dodorico

What did I say that was so wrong, Carolyn? Was it the truth that is wrong? I didn't make anything up...I told the website exactly what happened. I'm not surprised that the other elders' families (Teaters and Dodoricos) are here to justify the actions of the Robinsons. That's just slimy. I've never had a problem with Ken and Nancy or you and your husband. Your families are much more dignified and more ready to accept responsibility. The Robinsons aren't like you though. Do you see how they just jetted right outta there when it was too uncomfortable for them. And look what Daniel is saying to that poor blind brother, Tony. Daniel has no idea how good he has it, he's very spoiled compared to most people in the world his age. Daniel, but for the grace of God go YOU!

And Daniel,
You like to slam everyone else for trying to hold the Robinsons accountable, but you don't say anything to Matt or Andrea Denner for defending them. Have you not been keeping up on this board? Matt has been trying to defend the leading brothers for months, can you imagine? He defends GG and that wife-beating son of his. How do you sleep at night, Matt? Eulaha and Verne didn't do any damage to Luke and Paul Robinson, by the way. They were loving them by correcting their hateful ways. If anyone has damaged anyone on this board, it's YOU Matt and Luke and Paul Robinson. And now we can add Daniel Teater to the list. Daniel, your cousins were always stuck-up and insulting, but I didn't know you were like that too! I'm so sad!

A sister in Saint Louis.

Perhaps we can now more clearly see the absolute potential for chaos and confusion at the failure of those with responsibility to speak, and I am not talking about the children. The silence has been corrosive...in all liklihood it will continue to be.
I agree that the naming of names does demand transparency. It is a fundamental tenet of jurisprudence to be able to face your accuser. That why the BB is here isn't it?
Verne

St. Louis Sister

If what you are saying is true, then you have nothing to fear.  However, it is understandable that people would react violently to an anonymous accusation against a family member.  (I had no idea the Teater's and Robinson's were related)

If you could state the facts, and let people refute them, perhaps you would find a kinder audience.

From Lookingaway:

This doesn't sound like St. Louis Sister is lying...it sounds more like you are interpreting things a little differently.

Please, take a few deep breaths, and then pray.  Speak the truth in Love.  Light can be painful, but it is of God. Darkness is the realm of the Devil.

Brent

Surely you don't think that St. Louis sister is a real poster do you???  Reread her/his posts.  This person has accomplished just what he/she wanted to by getting a bunch of you riled up and in attack mode.

Andrea

Mark:
I can understand your sensitivity on this issue as your family is involved. As I read your response though I cannot help but wonder if your are being entirely objective regarding what was alleged to be true. Have you for example considered why this sister felt and expressed the sentiments she did in view of what has ocurred in the minsitry you were a part of?
Verne

Andrea you know better. There has been a consistency on this BB from regular posters on the matter of accountability of those in leadership in George's minsitry. This is hardly attack mode.  Has it ocurred to you that the kind of discussion we are having is a direct result of the silence of the men in charge in St Louis? You notice we are not talking for example about Omaha...
Verne

Hi Mark  

So what you are saying is that St. Louis Sister's post is not true, and that she didn't talk to anyone in person first?

Here we have a problem.  Her post is worth nothing, being anonymous, yet there is heated response to it.  The best course of action is to ignore it, but we are a little past that now.

The next best thing to do is to refute it, which cannot be done unless we know who wrote it.

This is a true test for many of us, because it will prove where our loyalty lies.  Do we really stand for the truth, even if it exonerates an "ex-assembly leader," or do we selectively use the truth for our own purposes?  The way we respond to something like this will define us.

In this case, given what we know, and more importantly what we don't know, I must wholeheartedly side with the Teater's and Dodorico's, and I'm sure by proxy, with the Robinson's.  Anonymous posts of this nature can't be proven or disproven, and therefore cannot be considered truth.

Brent

The matter open to dispute is the St Louis' sister's characterization of the Robinson's demeanor toward other families. The matter of the letter that was read is apparently not in dispute. The first matter is clearly a matter of subjectivity and not testable by normal rules of evidence. We already have some basis for determining the truthfulness of the poster, though she is anonymous.
Verne

His/her posts have absolutely no solid accusation except that they "slunk away like rats".  By "attack mode" I was meaning the high level of offense taken and replies back.
Let them reveal themselves and give examples.   I agree with MGov that they (given they are really who they say they are and have legitimate concerns/problems) would preferably take this up with the Robinson's themselves and not air dirty laundry here.

Andrea

And that would be???
Andrea

Fair enough Andrea. But why are we pretending that there is no context to the sentiments and perceptions being expresed. Have we forgotten what has happened in that ministry? Are we truly surprised that there are individuals that feel this way? Whatever happened to healing?
Verne

I purposefully avoided using anyone's name when I referenced the letter read from a former leading brother in St Louis. The sister correctly identified the individual.
Verne

Quite right, that I don't know what went on. That's why we are here is it not? Now, do you intend to enlighten me or will you leave the task to others?
Verne

Verne,
I believe that there is definitely context to sentiments that have been expressed on the board.   My only point here is that this poster is possibly not legitimate, has made character attacks, and has only served to upset people instead of bringing truth to light.
 :-[
andrea

Mark,
Matt's not from St. Louis and you don't say anything to him for posting in here. Neither you or Daniel reprimanded Matt for his posts to the sister in St. Louis. You have to be fair.
Love,
Laurie.

I am not upset Andrea, why are you or anyone else for that matter?. If what this poster is asserting is proven to be false, let the evidence establish that to be the case. This has been the pattern of the BB since its inception. You ought to know that by and large the people regularly posting here do not suffer fools gladly. If her statemets are fallacious, let that be proven. Simple no?
Verne

Please forgive...I get to typing too fast sometimes...
Verne
ps I will immediately make corrections..

I'm not upset either (although in disagreement with stl sister), but it is clear that this has rocked the boat of a few in St. Louis.  You talk about fallacious statements proven false, yet we don't have any solid statements to prove false because most of it is character attack, etc.  Or are we here to judge character????  

So are we havin' fun yet Verne??

Andrea

On the subject of character Oh, where to begin. This is an area in which conscience makes cowards of us all.
I would say in all honesty Andrea, the burden of proof rests squarely with those who served in positions of responsibility under George Geftakys. Were there some good men there? Yes I believe so. I am very troubled by the silence of so many Andrea. I have been saying this from day one...
Verne
p.s. definitely having fun... :)

Daniel, Mark, Matt, Luke, and Paul,

I think it is touching that you want to defend the elders so much, but due to your age, you think with your emotions and not with reason. That's especially how boys are. Until males are about 24, they tend to think with their penises instead of their brains. Since you are all males under 24, I highly suspect that you are thinking with you penises and not your brains. Let the older ones take care of this.

Love,
Laurie.

Colorful...! I think the boys can make a valuable contribution...It is also clear that much of what they are saying is driven by the fright and fight stimulus response...(apparently the parents opted for flight)
This is entirely understandable as it is a very messy business...
Verne

Laurie,

If you are a sister in the Lord, I do not think that you have prayed about what you should say, before posting.

M

Verne,

As I read your posts on this thread, I appears to me that you are unable to think outside your 'box'.  Maybe the assembly has worn off on you more than you'd like to admit (sarcasm intended).

M

Hi Mark

In case you didn't notice, I am defending you and  your family here.  I forgive you for saying what you said, because in the heat of the moment, with all the impulsive posts flying around, you may not have understood what I was saying.

I don't agree with this anonymous accusation.  I never said i read a letter, and I have never claimed to have spoken with Jerry, Ken, Paul, Rudy, or any other leader in Saint Louis.

If you want me to insult this person, and use this kind of speech, @#$%^@%%, well, I don't think it's right.  

So far, she has 2 things right.  There was a letter read in Jerry's absence, and he did leave.  Does this prove anything?  Nope.

Anonymous accusations, by definition, are not true.  Add a name, and back up what you say, and its a different story.

I agree with Pat Mathews, we don't know the half of it.  Unfortunately, what goes on behind closed doors doesn't help people who once looked up to their leaders.

Brent

It always gives me pause when former leaders and workers start to take offense at what is said by those who criticise former Geftakys leadership. Other than the Lord's assessment himself, who to better give report on the shepherds than the sheep? It is amusing to see all the hackles rising now that some of the St Louis folks (other than leaders or their relatives) are expressing an opinion. Do we remember that it was the silence of so many for so long that enabled Geftakys? It seems to me the people concerned are big enough and smart enough to mount their own defense. Those of you experiencing distress at what is being suggested on the thread should invite the respective parties to clear up any lingering misunderstanding. Attacking and belittling people you disagree with is right out of the Assembly playbook.
Verne

It is a rare soul that attempts to impugn the soundness of my intellect. You are certainly entitled to your opinion MGov.
Verne
p.s. the only people 'boxed in" are those too spiritually obstinate or simple-minded to process the clear lessons of that lamentable era. All the temporising and indignation notwithstanding, that entire endeavor has been ajudged as null and void...why don't we wait and observe the ultimate denoument...?
Verne

Too GGish Verne.
M

My faults are many MGov, don't you dare compare me to that spiritual monster...
Verne

Forgive me Verne; that last 'jab' was unnecesssary, I went too far with that one.

M

Looks like the Robinsons are destined to be famous. :)
We just finished with the Why Luke R... thread, and now we have this one started today and already with 4 pages of replies.
M

Hello dear ones,
I see that I have offended a lot of people, many of whom I care dearly for (Teaters, Dodoricos, Andrea Denner, Verne Carty). I've met each and every one of you and I don't want there to be this discontent between us. You are right that I should not have posted anonymously. However, I was only pointing out the specific brother that Verne was alluding too. I did not make anything up. Jerry Robinson left the assembly with a note rather than addressing the assembly. I mentioned my personal feelings on the Robinsons. How they treated me may not be how they treated you, and so it might be hard for you to understand where I'm coming from. I have good reason to remain anonymous though. There is too much bitterness, too much name-calling hatred on this board and in the assembly situations. I can't take it any more. I'd also like to mention that I'm against spreading rumors like Tony Edwards apparently has (he's not said anything to me, but I know there is a commotion going on here because of some false comments he's made). My main problem was with Jerry Robinson leaving us without any guidance in the midst of turmoil. He's a very gifted man and he could have done a lot to help the saints out. Instead, he did slink away...maybe not as a rat, but as a man. He has not been held accountable for this damage that it did to the saints. He placed his comfort and his life before those of the saints he shepherded. He's not an innocent man. Thank you for listening.

And please do not send any emails. That is a fake email that I made up a few years ago to use on forms for shopping online. That way I'd not get junk mail in my real email.  I will not answer any emails sent there.

O.K. Mark I admit I am a little sensitive about being compared to GG but do you really think my own failures carry as much impact as his? To whom much is given, much is required. My own failures notwithstanding, I can say with great confidence I am nothing like that man, God's mercies be praised...
Verne
p.s. your dad is one of the kindest, gentlest men I have ever met...

STL sister,

What about Private messages on this BB?  will you be checking those?

M

Eulaha,
I found your message to the Robinson boys inappropriate. You did not show them love in your post and they are going through a hard time. Let it be known that I did not agree with this woman (Eulaha).

I was in no way offended by anything you said sister.




This also is the basis of my own query to all those formerly in leadership. How you end the race is the key thing! The silence is deafening!
Verne

This thread needs to be rated PG13. :o

To my dear sister (or brother) in Christ (maybe) who may or may not  be in St. Louis. I see that you have managed to stir up bitterness, anger, wrath, and a lot of un-Godly sentiment on this thread. I'd say Satan accomplished his goal quite nicely through you. I'm sure he is patting you on the back right now. Verne blames this on the leading brothers, even though none of them made you post here. Now, ma'am, sir, whatever you want to be called, how did you expect their family to leave the assembly? Would you rather they had just disappeared and not leave a letter of any kind? No ma'am - that's ridiculous. In addition, you were far to dependent on the leading brothers if you can't get any healing without Jerry Robinson present. The only healing you will ever get will never come from a man - only from the Lord. Everything good comes from the Lord. The Robinsons will never be able to give you what they're looking for. Even if they had stayed in the assembly just to please you and it was  against how they felt they were being led - you'd still be unhappy. The Robinsons are just men (except for Ms. Robinson - she's a woman). They'll never replace what the Lord can give you. Turn to Him, hold on to Him, love Him, trust Him, and remember that only He will give you healing. The Robinsons cannot give you what you need, no human can.

As for your personal sentiments of the Robinsons, we are only hearing one side of the story. Remember, I've said it a lot on this board - there are 3 sides to every story: your side, my side, and the truth. Since you are anonymous, the Robinsons can't really present their side. My experience with Luke and Paul has been quite different and I know many people in San Diego really like L and P. They would be shocked to see you say these negative things about them. Who do you think is encouraging you to feel this envy, bitterness, hatred to the Robinsons? Do you think that's the Lord? Really listen to Him...is he saying: tell those Robinsons that you won't go to any wedding if they're going to be there. Ma'am, I'd urge you to stay away from here because as you said you can't take it anymore. This website will only encourage your bitterness, wrath, insecurity, etc. Already look at the replies on this thread. Repent and turn to Him. He loves you more than all the leading brothers in all the world combined. Amen? Amen.
- Matt

Hello All!

"1 Sam 15:32  And Samuel said, Bring ye near to me  Agag  the king of Amalek. And  Agag  came to him gaily. And  Agag  said, Surely the bitterness of death is past.  33  And Samuel said, As thy sword has made women childless, so shall thy mother be childless above women. And Samuel hewed  Agag  in pieces before Jehovah in Gilgal. "

Think about this passage.  Not all bitterness and lack of forgiveness is bad, but much of it is.  Discernment is key here.

I learned something here in SLO, back when I was actively calling George, David and the leaders to repentance.

I viewed the leaders as being either Deceived, Ignorant, or Corrupt.  I still view them that way, especially the one's who held on to the very end.  There were some who really did stand up to George, Zach, David G., and others, who suffered for it, but I am talking about the leaders who were in place in December of 2002.

I observed their actions,  and drew conclusions about them based on what I knew and what I saw.  Due to the fact that I was enemy#1 at the time, and was by far the worst nightmare ever to visit George's house, I had very little contact with anyone except Danny Edwards.

Although I knew a lot of things that they didn't know, especially about George, there were some things that they knew that I didn't know.  Consequently, due to my knowledge, I assigned to them far more corruption than they deserved.  In fact, these men were far more deceived than I had realized, and when their eyes were opened, the largely behaved in an honorable way, especially Danny.

What I am trying to say is that even though Jerry left a note, and didn't elaborate on why, and didn't "stand" the way one would think a shepherd of twenty years should stand, we need to be careful assigning to him "rat" status.  There are undoubtedly other things to consider.

Notwithstanding,  I don't think anyone is going to argue that leaving a gathering where one was an elder or leader for over 20 years, and only leaving behind a note is rather extraordinary.  However, given the extraordinary nature of the Assembly, and the fact that the leader in question was an integral part of it, it really shouldn't be a surprise.

Yes, we all wish that these men would come forward with apologies.  I'm sure private apologies have been forthcoming, but there is something to be said for public ones, when appropriate.  However, do not suppose that leaders did not also suffer in the ASsembly.  They did.  


As for bitterness and hatred on the BB, we are all entitled to our opinions.

Now, we have named another person, Tony, and let it be known that he is spreading rumors in St. Louis.  I have never heard these rumors, and don't have any idea what he is saying about whom.  What I do know is that a person named Tony is telling lies....or do I?

Again, I'm not going to pay any attention to any of this.  Anonymous accusations are worthless.

As far as I'm concerned, everything said about Jerry and Tony, by a person who won't identify themselves, is false.  If our anonymous poster does know the truth, and is either afraid or unwilling to share it, then that is a bigger problem than an elder leaving behind a note.  This fear and secrecy are the very things that allowed this whole debacle in the first place.

My wish is that Brian Tucker would lock, or better yet delete this thread.  If we have something to say, let's have the courage to tell people who we are.j

Brent

Yes, you're right. I did not want to hurt the people I love on this board. I did not want them to be angry with me. Forgive me Mark, Daniel, Carolyn, Hannah, Luke, Paul, Tina,
I did not want to distress you. I did not expect this kind of reaction at all. Just know that I love you all very much and would never want to hurt you.

Jerry:
Forgive me brother. I acted in anger and selfishness. I do love your family and I know you have been good to the saints. I don't like what Tony Edwards is doing at all and I pray that God will open his eyes to his sin. Matt has a good point. I attached myself to much to you and your family and so when you left it was very difficult. I need to "attach" myself even more to the Lord.

Brent:
I agree with you. Please, Mr. Tucker, delete this thread if at all possible.

Thank you sister for that post, and let me tell you that I didn't mean to come off as some pompous windbag running his mouth, which is exactly how I sounded.  (However I still feel that you should reveal yourself.)

By the way to all who previously read my comments, I do wish to apologize for the antagonistic language especially in regards to Tony Edwards.  What I have stated before (about his slanderous comments) still stands, however I realize that trading insult for insult is the last thing God would want.  For that I apologize and ask you (Tony) for forgiveness and have taken down the offensive comments.

However with that note I again will reiterate that I have been truly shocked by different things you have written about the Robinsons.  I work with Paul and I can assure you that your comments have done nothing to build him up at all especially in such an important time as this.  Right now is when someone needs to come alongside him and edify and build him up not tear him down.

He told me about a time when he took you down to the hospital and afterward stopped in at McDonalds for you.  He remembers being willing to sacrifice his time and energy for you, but now all he feels is betrayed.

 To any and all who have received messages from Tony I simply ask that you take it with a grain of salt.  I have talked to numerous people here in St. Louis and it appears that he is hell-bent on some sort of crusade to decimate the reputations of others.  Remember it is by the mouth of two or three witnesses not by one (namely Tony Edwards).  If any of you who have received information from him please note that he rarely if ever posts on the main BB, because he knows the type of reaction he will get when everyone in St. Louis sees his bald-faced lies and twisted views.  Tony if you want to talk to me or to Luke or Paul or Jerry please let us know.  I will be happy to come over, and sort through these things, and if there is misunderstanding on my part then let me know and we can go from there.  Thanks

Oh by the way I agree delete this thread.

I cannot allow these kind of slanderous comments, Brent. I agree with some of the things you are trying to do on this bulletin board, but I know the families you are referring to in this PM better than you do. I can testify that your comments on these kids are entirely untrue. I very much regret starting this thread and posting on here. Please forgive me St. Louis saints for this, I was wrong. Here is the PM I received from Brent. Brent, I had to expose the slander for all to see in case you've told other people these things about the kids of the leadership in St. Louis.

Hello There

While I understand that you were telling the truth, and most other people understand the same thing, due to the nature of the BB, and the participation of several people, you simply can't anonymously accuse a Robinson, Teater, or Dodorico on the BB.  Nothing has "come out," on them, so you set a precendent with your post.

Personally, I agree with you, that an Elder should not flee at the first sign of real trouble.  However, what did you expect?  While your story has merit, it simply can't be told from an anonymous perspective.  May I suggest that you slowly re-enter the community here,  and warm up to the issue?  You will find that we are a very forgiving and tolerant bunch, with the exception of the STL leadership's kids.  You will get nothing but abuse from them,  unless you defend GG and his leadership.

I'm sorry i came out against your post, but it was a matter of principle.  The vast majority of anonymous posts on this board have been from people who wanted to attack me, or defend GG, or both.  We didn't allow them to do it anonymously, and stated reasons of principle.  I couldn't compromise in this case.

Brent

Thanks.  My name is Brent Tr0ckman.  What's yours?
Another principle that I have has to do with trust.  Thanks for sharing a PM that I wrote to you with everyone on the board.  I'm sure everyone will notice this, and appreciate it very much.

Would you like to see any of the PM's I get from others?  Shall I share them with everyone, like you did mine?

I can't wait to see what happens next.

Brent--real name--real person.  

PS--I learned something from you, whoever you are, what I don't understand is if you know these families so well, and are so supportive of them, what did you start this thread for?  I didn't start it, verne didn't start it, you started it.  And then, when someone tries to reach you, privately, you respond in public?  The St. Louis Assemlby must have been a great training ground indeed.

STL Sister,
I don't mean to sound harsh, but I'm having a hard time believing that you are who you say you are.  You claim to regret having started this thread, but at key times have pulled it back up to the front with rather ire-stirring comments and information.
What gives??

Andrea

Brent,
I noticed in your signature line that you have some things that you consider opposites.  Why do you consider truth and loyalty opposite?  I consider loyalty a good trait.

Andrea

Also,  how does one give positive and negative points?  I'm a dunderhead and still can't figure it out.  Anyone??

A

St. Louis sister
Just warming up...

Attitude: +0/-3
[good] [bad]

Posts: 6




I'm a llama!
      (No subject) on: Today at 01:04:58am

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Hi Here's another PM I can share with you, so you can post it to everyone else.

I was trying to approach you, and see if I could help what sounded to me like a bitter and disturbed person.  I figured that if I blasted you, you wouldn't want to talk, but I couldn't totally agree with you.  Your facts were correct, to a point.  I know a little more about what took place than you may realize, but I really didn't expect you to take a PM, that was intended to be a private bridge builder between us, and turn it into a public back-stab.

Now I know better, and I will not make the same mistake next time.

For everyone else, I will not share your private mail to me.  You are free to share in public anything I have ever written to you.  Dredge up email, PM's, whatever you can find and do your best to slander me.  I invite you.  Be my guest.  I have nothing to hide, including this Private Message.

Brent  

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Why?  Does Brent need a -ve point?  I'll do it for you. (Just joking) :)
M

I need to give myself some positive points.  I just don't have ENOUGH!  ;D

Andrea

STL Sister

A PM is a PM and should only be revealed with permission from the one that wrote it to you.  You may not agree with Brent, but you could have brought him to task on the BB without revealing his PM.

M

That's one thing you can't do; someone else has to do it for you.  I just gave you one.
M

Hi Andrea

Truth and loyalty are both part of God's character, but they are in tension with one another.

Truth alone is brutal.  There is no lie, and no deception, but there is also no covering or mercy.  A truthful parent, who has no loyalty to their children, calls the police if their child steals something, or drinks alchohol, etc.   They don't try to work things out, they just tell the whole truth.  Loyalty is needed here.

Loyalty is great, and necessary.  However, loyalty without truth, or being loyal to someone or something that is sinful, is absolutely wrong and become idolatry.  In other words, we become a blind follower of a blind guide, when we are loyal, but not truthful.

However, when the two are in balance, things are awesome.  Jesus is The Truth, but He is also a loyal friend.  You can take it from there.

Brent

Very true.

I'm interested to see how the mercy and understanding flows from this one.  I think I should be the one to take the brunt of the judgement.  My PM can be read all sorts of ways, without asking me what I meant, and why I wrote it.  I think it should be construed exactly how our dear sister put it, I am slandering the St Louis kids.  (never mind the hundreds of words that they themselves typed on a public forum)

As for our dear anonymous sister, I think we should pretend that this never happened, and act as if she didn't post what she did, and be nice to her.  She said she was sorry.

Shoot, she may even be playing a game.  Think we'll ever find out?  Well, when I was admin on this board, I had no problem finding out who people were.  You can see their IP's on their posts.  I know Brian will keep as silent as a post about it, and well he should.  However, he will not allow people to impersonate others, or play dangerous games, if that is the case.

So, sis, what is it.  Were you lying in your first post, telling the truth, or are you just too big a coward to take a stand one way or the other?

Brent

Sis? did you write this?

Brent,
On your last post.

That's what I'm talking about!  Quite a dramatic change of heart isn't it?  

Andrea

Which last post?  What are you talking about?  Who's change of heart?

Sorry, I'm a little confused.  Can you clarify?

Brent

My point is that I've been trying to say from my very first post on this thread that I think that this is someone just trying to stir things up around here.  The change of heart is from "sis" talking about how all of the Robinsons thought they were better than everyone else, and that the Robinson boys were insulting everyone....to utter defense of the Robinsons. (including information that he/she knew would get a rise out of people)

A

Well, I like that WHO song, we won't get fooled again!

Brent

You know, I was thinking about the PM's that we use on the board, you know, the PUBLIC Messages?

I have some from a guy named Tony Edwards.  Lil' sis here uses his name, and says he is lying about things in ST. Louis.  I wonder, is he lying?  Could he be telling the truth?  He hasn't said anything on the BB, but a sister from St. Louis comes on here, followed by LB's kids from ST. Louis, and tell us how this guy named Tony is telling lies.

What is Tony saying?  Does he only lie?

Poor Tony.  He isn't here, but he gets called a liar from people in St. Louis.

I wonder if he would mind it if I shared his public messages to me.  I have around a dozen.

(Don't worry.  I would never do such a thing.  But the thought of it should cause our sis' to apologize pronto)

Sis, you're a snake, and I'll remember that.  I wonder who you are?

Brent

Hey Tony!  Can you PUBLIC MESSAGE me?

I thought I would private message everyone on the board.

I think what we have in this thread is an attempt to slander and silence a guy named Tony Edwards, who has the nasty habit of telling the truth in St. Louis.  

Why did one of the kids (probably didn't know any better) spend a post bringing up his name, when lil sis didn't even mention him?

I think we need to hear from Tony.  At first, the name didn't ring a bell, but then when I heard he was blind, I remembered him, because he came out to CA to get a dog.

I searched my email (about 10,000) and found a bunch from him.   He was so kind and gracious the way he spoke about the leadership on STL.   I wonder if he freaked out, or something?

Whatever he is saying, it reminds me of what people said about me when I "slandered" George and David.  I told the truth, but these snakes screamed "liar!"

Tony, public message us!

I received a couple of e-mails from Tony. The one item of interest he mentioned, the writing of the letter, I was able to subsequently confirm. Ad hominem attacks are indeed troubling. We should respond only to what is actually said!
Verne

Actually Brent none of us are little kids. We all stand over 6'3 and are down right proud of it. (Luke is 6'10, Mark 6'5. I'm 6'3 and Paul is too.) In regards to my comments about Tony and the reasoning behind why I chose to use this thread were as follows:

    For a long time I have watched as private message after private message came from Tony Edwards that contained information that was highly questionable i.e. Paul was kicked out for homosexual tendencies, and many more. There aim was not merely to expose the "leading brothers," but rather a personal vendetta aganist the Robinsons.  This has gone on for quite awhile and needed to be addressed.  What better time to do it then on a thread addressed to the very people he particularly angry with: the Robinsons.

 I am amazed that Verne and Brent seem to possess such great knowledge as to the events that transpired in St. Louis.  For being so far away you certainly have formed a healthy set ideas in light of what went down here.  Please  do not falsely assume based on faulty logic and one-sided stories. It disturbs me greatly to watch (especially you Brent) play the role of savior while you merely exacerbate the situation with your psychoanalysis.

However, right now I think what would be best is if this thread closed and I stop talking about Tony Edwards and talk to him personally.  Tony if you read this I would like to get together with you sometime, and first and foremost see that reconciliation takes place.  You are my brother in Christ and I always respected you and enjoyed talking to you. I will try and give you a call this week so we can put an end to this charade.  To any and all St. Louis people that read this:  Let's stop wasting our time on this BB and invest it in relationships with each other.  

A reasonable concern Daniel. I try not to comment publicly on matters of which I have no knowledge. I also try not to needlessly name names when  it is not germane to the larger principle under consideration. I have been very general and fairly consistent in my fundamental thesis that Shepherds are responsible for the flock, including those in who served in St. Louis. If anything I have said does not comport with the facts as you know them, point them out and I will make corrections.
Verne

Dear Daniel,  I am writing to respond to your very  last statement,only. I agree in part. I agree 100% that, I have, in the last few days, after being notified of a personal attack on the Robinsons, spent WAY TOO MUCH TIME on this BB. I had not read anything here in months.   I agree 100% that I need to spend my time in St Louis building relationships with people I can trust.  HOWEVER, I would like to point out that if this BB stops before the (former) sister in St. louis comes forward,  EVERYONE, here there and everywhere, (in my opinion) who has read this BB will continue to play "name that sister". If, she did not realize that a personal attack on the Robinson family would hurt so many people, she surely does "not realize" the damage she has done to ALL the sisters in St. Louis. There are many events coming up where we will all be together. I AM NOT the "sister in St Louis". I do not want to go to the various events where people will be asking themselves, "Is she the sister?"  If she(former sister) thinks that the Robinsons attendance at the up coming wedding would dampen spirits, what about ALL the sisters that will be thought of as possible candidates for being "the" sister in St. Louis? So, it seems only fair, that the (former) sister in St. Louis come forward and apologize to ALL the sisters that have been effected by her anonimity. Therefore I would hate to see this "end" with the question still out there, "who is the sister in St Louis?"

I hesitate to post, and have never done so before, due to fear of unintentionally saying something inflamatory or something that would offend. If I have done so, I apologize in advance. I simply think that this sister needs to see she is continuing to do damage to other sisters, unless and until she comes forward.
-Libby Birdwell-  

My apologies.  I didn't know you were all related, and I was under the impression that you were kids.  So, you are adults then?


I missed these private messages.  Which thread are they in, or are they public?


I have a telephone, a mail box, and email.  I have found that if I communicate with people, I can learn things from them.  Examples would be, who said what at a meeting, who preached on what passage.  Letters written from one person to another, etc.  For instance, I received the excommunication letter before most Assemblies did.  I had ears in every gathering in the system for a while, with the one exception of Pasadena.  

I'm glad you like Tony so much.

Also, I'm not sorry that your families Assembly exploded.  I also won't take credit for it.  I'm sure you guys all played a part in it.

Brent

Hi Libby.

I don't think the BB is going to stop soon.

Also, don't be too sure that this Sister in St. Louis, is a sister at all.  The IP's of all the people who post are visible to Admin.  It would be interesting to compare the IP's of about 8 people on this forum to that of STL sister.  

I can't see them, but there are people who can.  I wonder what would happen if we found out that STL Sister was actually someone's brother?

Brent

Brent,

The information that I obtained was not linked to any threads.  As I stated before they were private messages sent from Tony to numerous people on this board (PRIVATELY).  As stated before he will not post some of the things he has written due largely to the false information they contain.  All I ask is for the shroud of secery and deciet to stop.  

Libby,

I understand the predictament we face.  It will be difficult to attend various events now without everyone turning into a suspect, however I will talk to you later but now I have to run to work.

I suggest that you resolve this problem in STL; talk to Tony etc. and then post the results for our benefit.
M

The problem is being "solved" as I type.

I don't have all the facts yet, but I do have some, and let me say that there are going to be a few VERY embarrassed people.

I would suggest that whoever has been sharing Tony's PM's with people on this board should 'fess up pronto.  I heard from Tony today, and his adaptive software doesn't work very well on the BB, so he can't post.  The PM's are easier for some reason.

The truth about this is going to come out.  The choices are:

Will the people who did this confess, or will the story be told by others?  It is only a matter of time.  Sadly, I will be building boats for a Christian camp this weekend, so I won't be able to solve this dark, deceptive mess until Sunday or Monday.

From Daniel Teater:

Indeed?  Numerous=two people.  I know who they are.
Private=one of the two shared the private message with someone else.  Could this be ST. Louis sister's "other" identity?  I don't know, but we will find out.

Tony will not post, becasue he is blind and his adaptive software won't let him.  Perhaps you guys will continue to tell everyone what lies he is telling.


Oh, it will stop.  Don't worry about that.  Would you like to be the one to stop it, or should I?

John 3:20  "For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his  deeds  should be exposed.  21  "But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his  deeds  may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God."

Is that the rumbling of distant thunder I am hearing...?
Let me say something to all you former assembly folks (of whom I am one).
Your greatest danger is the tendency many of you have to ignore or minimise your serious spiritual injury sustained under the ministrations of George Geftakys.  Do you understand how much of your spiritual llfe has been bled away? You are in need, many of you, of a Great Physician!
Verne

First, it was this:



Then, she wrote this:


In response to this?:


does anyone else find this interesting?  

Brent

Sister in STL,
I have never defended David G or GG on a personal level. Get the facts straight before you spout off your mouth. Tony if you are reading this, can you email me?  Thanks.
- Matt

Does anyone else think it a breach of etiquette for private IMs to be bandied around without knowledge or consent of the sender? There is I think a presumption of confidentiality in these messages as one is often willing to express sentiments or views in confidence that my be inappropriate for public consumption. I am of the opinion that this mutual trust and respect ought to be guarded.
Verne

Verne,

It all boils down to motivation.  The STL sister intended to slander Brent by publicly posting his PM.
Private sharing of PMs/emails may fall in the category of getting advice, or sharing news.
When I do not want my PM/email being posted publicly or shared with anyone else, I often state that in my PM/email.

M

Yep.  I wonder what we will think when we see the horrible things that Tony Edwards wrote to "numerous" people on the BB, via private email?

STL sister is sorry, and didn't mean to hurt anyone.  She has contradicted herself on several levels.

Tony, who has never even posted here, has been thouroughly slandered.

My private message is no big deal, everyone already knew I felt that way anyhow.  What has me so worked up is the dark manipulation being played out by someone.

Long live GG!!  

Brent

Mark,
It may be too late to post this, seeing as though it sounds like you won't be around anymore, but I am the one who made the charge of fake poster to this person.  

I'm going to still hold to that due to the conflicting and erratic posts, coupled with the fact that this person brought this thread back to the forefront at key times... with very strife geared comments and information (including sharing a private communication that would be guaranteed to stir things up).  I will assume that you have nothing to do with this and ask you to read back through the posts and see if you conclude the same thing.  I would certainly apologize if I am wrong.

Are you really serious with the second to last paragraph of your post??   Wow.

Andrea

I missed something Brent, Verne
How has Tony been slandered??
If he sent an email and did NOT state that he did not want it shared with anyone, then I do NOT see a problem with others 'talking about it' amongst themselves.  If anyone, it was Verne who disclosed information from the email publicly on this BB (but very discreetly).
M

    (from another thread, because it is appropriate here)
...............................................................................

    Call me naive, but i just don't get all the Brent-bashing.  
i was gone for two weeks, during which time Brent returned from his six week hiatus, and now it seems every time i look at the bb, somebody is taking a shot at him.  i'm not writing this to defend Brent, he's a big boy.  i just don't get it.
    His comments are often tongue-in-cheek, and quite amusing (but maybe that's because i'm not passionately debating him over something).  i don't read in his remarks that he's throwing his weight around, trying to be someone important or even getting emotional.  But claims are being made to that effect and quotes presented to back those claims (although they fail to do so) that make me think that maybe the patients have taken over the asylum.

    Let me ask this:  If the Son of God, during three years of ministry, was misunderstood by everyone who heard him (even his closest disciples), why should we feel that we must keep hammering away at our points of view until everyone else accepts them?  Do we just post whatever pops into our heads, or do we carry that thought to the Lord and ask him whether HE wants it posted?
    Suppose we do that and are convinced he wants us to post, but when we do, someone else refutes our words?  Do we at once engage that person in debate without consulting the Lord?  If we follow human instinct and attack, the results resemble a cheap talk-radio program.  (Still, someone will probably refute what i'm saying here without seeking the Lord's counsel about it).
   
    Let's face it, it isn't human nature to carry everything to God in prayer.  But then again, human nature isn't what's going to overcome this present evil world and the temptations of the flesh and carry us to our heavenly reward.  That is all attributable to the nature of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, AND our partaking of IT.
    Well, that sounds awfully preachy and takes all the fun out of showing everyone how much more clever i am than are those whose views oppose mine.  Maybe i should just stuff all this spiritual business under a rug and get on with tearing into my brothers and sisters as if they are my enemies.  That oughta have our REAL enemies (those powers and principalities) rolling on the floor with laughter.  It won't make me more than a conqueror, but if i "win" my debate, i can pretend it does!

MGov this comes real close to a perversion of truth-you know full well I mentioned Tony's e-mail in an attempt to defend his integrity. There is something truly creepy about the way you are representing this MGov; What gives??!!
Verne
p.s. Al there is a clear reason for all the Brent-bashing but those engaged in it will never admit it...you ever heard the one about waking a sleeping man in a burning house...?

Poor choice of words on my part, Verne. Don't mean to 'slander' or anything, but to use you as an example of one who disclosed information from a PM/email 'legitimately'.
I am referring to the above quote from one of your posts.
This is a response to Brent's request to 'fess' up.

M

PS.  I will 'fess' up to sending PMs and emails to others (privately) in order to get advice, or to give news/information &/or to encourage the other individual with the information I had.  I never sent anything to anyone when the individual told me not to do so.
M

Curioser and curioser...!
MGov you really mean to tell me that you see no distinction between referring to information received in an IM in which all identities are kept confidential, and actually posting or sending the entire contents of that IM to others?
For your information, the reference to that letter in Tony's mail was not the first time I had heard about it. The information was confirmed many times over and obviously known by everyone present when the letter was read. I seem to be really missing something in this exchange...
Verne

Verne,

You must read my posts carefully; this is what I said:

but to use you as an example of one who disclosed information from a PM/email 'legitimately'.


I guess I should have qualifed that as 'good example'.
M

MGov, Brent was clearly responding to Mark and Daniel Teater's repeated assertion that they had private IMs sent to others by Tony and was in no way referrring to my mentioning the St. Louis letter. Is it possible that you completely missed this?
Why you cited me in that context mystifies me...if it was inadvertent then I accept that; the reference certainly sounded like an accusation...

Verne

To all,

   My name is Tony Edwards.   It is a name that was known as a father, husband, friend, disability advocate and Christian brother…until now.   I am writing this message for the following reason:

Proverbs 22:1  A good name is rather to be chosen than great riches, and loving favor rather than silver and gold.

   I returned home from a fishing trip on Thursday (May 22) and was encouraged by the time I had with my brother and two nephews.   They are each losing their vision from the same eye disease.   Two of them are not saved and we had a great opportunity to address issues and plant the seed of the Gospel.

 Thursday evening, I decided to check the BBS as I recalled a discussion on Free Will.   This was a common topic during our camping trip.  
   Well, I was devastated to see the topic started by STL Sister and then to see my name slandered in subsequent posts.
   All I feel I can do here is to make the following statements and hope that those who know me will accept them as the truth.

 *  I have not sent multiple private messages to a number of users on the board.   I only mentioned the resignation letter to two people via email.   I emailed a sister in California thanking her for a missing puzzle piece regarding couples meetings.   FYI, we were in a wonderful couples group and it was a blessing to Peggy and I.   I also emailed, what I thought was a letter of encouragement, to Luke.   Since this thread, I've emailed Brent, to tell him why I wasn't defending myself on the BBS, and to the young brother who was accusing me of lies etc.

 *  The BBS software does not work well at all with my adaptive software.  Reading is okay and all of the links are accessible, but to post a message is very difficult.    I also didn't have the time, or desire, to follow a thread and respond.

 *  I have no idea who is sending the PM's in my name.   But I assure you that they are lies and they are not from me.   I was in tears to think that Paul felt that I betrayed him.   Paul, the trip to the hospital to see Ian, during a very scary time, was a tremendous blessing for me and my family.
   For whoever is saying these things, I hope that you would consider the following:
Proverbs 6:12  A worthless person, a wicked man, Is the one who walks with a perverse mouth,
13  Who winks with his eyes, who signals with his feet, Who points with his fingers;
14  Who with perversity in his heart continually devises evil, Who spreads strife.
15  Therefore his calamity will come suddenly; Instantly he will be broken and there will be no healing.
16  There are six things which the LORD hates, Yes, seven which are an abomination to Him:
17  Haughty eyes, a lying tongue, And hands that shed innocent blood,
18  A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that run rapidly to evil,
19  A false witness who utters lies, And one who spreads strife among brothers.

   *  I am not ashamed of anything that I've written in my emails, however, I do regret the lack of wisdom in sending them.   I did ask that the information not be shared and was even assured that it wouldn't be.  

 *  I do not have a personal vendetta against the Robinsons.   I think very highly of Tina, who has always been willing to extend service to my family.   I've always thought that Luke and Paul were quite amusing.   I can't recall ever questioning Jerry's ministry and I very much enjoyed our one on one conversations prior to the exposure of the Assembly.    For the record, Jerry did NOT offend me, just disappointed me.

 *   I have no idea of the depth of damage to my name here in St. Louis.   How many read the false PM's, read the posts on the board or spread the tales by word of mouth or email.   I guess it doesn't matter as I believe that my name will be vindicated whether it is in five days, five weeks or five months.     

 *   I wish to put this behind me and move on with my life as a husband and father.   It has been quite a humbling experience and I have learned from it.   I don't wish to discuss it further on here but if any in STL wish to contact me, they know how.   I am not angry or bitter but very saddened by this turn of events.   For those that have publicly slandered my name, if they see the error of their way, I'd hope for a public apology.

 *   For any Christian brother or sister in St. Louis, who has been healing and has been hurt by this whole mess…Please accept my deepest apology for any part that I have played in this pain.   For any suspicions or discomfort that has been the result of the lies.All I can say is that the Lord will shine light into every darkness and bring Peace.   What Satan has meant for evil, God can certainly use for good!

Wishing God's very best for all of His Pilgrims!

Tony Edwards
Taplive@juno.com
PR 2:7-12

I typed this letter, however my wife had to post it.

Great news.  Thank you! :)

Brent

I know that many of you have trouble reading with good comprehension.  What Tony is saying, and let me guarantee that this is Tony, is that:

1.) He did NOT, repeat, NOT send PM's to people, as he is accused of doing.  What I mean in the previous sentence is that Tony didn't do it.  In other words, the cute LB's boys and girls are lying.  What I mean by that last statement is that they are not telling the truth, which is a nice way of saying they are lying.

2.)Tony's mail to me was every bit as gracious as what he has written here.  He is a whole lot nicer to Jerry Robinson than Saint Louis Sister, but he is getting slandered, while shehe/it is "forgiven."  There is a reason for this, which we shall discover in due time.

The Teater boy said this:

Mark, the reason I said there were two people is not because I was "ALL" knowing, but simply because I knew that there were only 2.  There's a difference.  I may not know how the universe started, which I would if I was all-knowing, but I do know how many people Tony PM'd.  Can you see that there is a difference here?  So, I did know this information before posting, but I am not all-knowing.  I have considered the accusation against this man, from you, in which you call him a liar.  I have considered it and have concluded thus far that you are the liar in this case, and that you are doing it in pure Assembly tradition, except that you aren't as good at it as others.

---

Think of the words of these punkish young men, and their false claims, and compare them to that of Tony, and draw your own conclusion.

Also, as many of you will no doubt point out, it would appear that I insult these poor boys (they call themselves adults!) in the previous sentence.  Let me assure you, I have no intention of apologizing for these words, because they are not insulting, but rather descriptive.  These words exist in the english language for just such an occasion, and I believe I have used them properly.  These boys are acting in the basest manner, and I would point all of you to the verses Tony shares with us.

I await the stream of name calling and the simultaneous avoidance of any facts on the part of these snakes.  I can't wait to see how they ignore what just happened, forget about Tony, and jump all over me.  I'm happy about it, because I can type fast, while Tony can't.

Care to share any more PM's boys?  How about if you show us the ones that Tony sent you, where he lies?

Brent

Whoever is using your PM account would have to know your password as well in order to send PMs in your name.
emails are similar.

Since there is nothing to bring you shame, I suggest that you post the email you sent, so that the matter can be clarified.

M

Mr. Hartman,
I think you mixed up the names on your "why is everyone bashing brent" post. I never wanted to see you, sir, get so deceived. Do you see the discrepancy here? Is it not clear as day? Brent insulted my intelligence by calling my theology  "McTheology" and when I called him on it, you felt I was "Brent-bashing." When Mark Teater called Brent prideful and arrogant (opinions about Brent that I definitely share! oops, I just bashed brent) that was Brent Bashing, but when Brent throughly insulted the Teaters in his last post, well he's to be commended for his bravery. I suppose that I was Verne-bashing when I asked him to apologize for saying those nasty things about Luke and Paul on the "why leaders are responsible thread." Let's examine Brent's post together:



Oh, now this is interesting. Brent, which ones of us have trouble reading with good comprehension - just curious. It's so kind of you to break down Tony's post for us, since it must not have been very clear the first time.


And people wonder why the leaders don't want to expose their families to the saints of the former assemblies sometimes. Brent just doesn't have a problem with the LB's - he has a problem with their kids too! Is there not something a little deranged about this? Brent's mission against leaders of the assembly has turned into insulting their kids too. He's so sure that the LB's are responsible that his mission extends to insulting the kids too. The only reason they are liars, evidently, is because they're LB's kids and because Brent Tr0ckman says so.


In other words, we can just insult someone and say - oh but I'm not insulting them, I'm *describing* them. Ok, Brent, don't take this as an insult, but rather a description of you - You have definite issues with pride, arrogance, and bitterness. I know you have been "described" that way by many. Did anyone else notice how gentle he was with STL sister, but the second she posted his PM to her, his tone changed dramatically - now she's a "dark manipulator." Too bad it's not all about Brent! I think it's funny that you are defending Andrea Denner's posts about the leading brothers being guilty for allowing GG to be arrogant. A little hypocritical, I'd say.

Thanks for referring the Teaters to Tony's verses. And now let me point you to some verses, Brent:
Satan is not alone he has those who help him to deceive people. 2 Corinthians 11:13-15 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light. Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.
Matthew 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

You say compare the posts of these men to Tony's? The posts of the LB's kids express nothing more than their righteous anger at the slander of their family by possibly Tony Edwards, definitely by you Brent (look at all the insults you've hurled at the Robinson boys and the Teater boys), and also Verne, among many others on this board. Let's think- who's the ringleader of this BB? Who started it, who made the GA website, who is always in the middle of every hotspot on this BB? Oh, you are Brent. You try to appear as an angel of light, saying that your only mission was to help people, to encourage healing, to expose sin. But how has this angel of light accomplished this? Well, I'm sure you know by now that this board has encouraged "healing" by having people lash out - think Eulaha, Brent, Verne here. This angel of light has provided a forum for attacking, slander, bitterness, wrath, etc. Yes, Eulaha, I'm a regular contributor! It's been encouraged by this board - I'm glad I'm able to recognize that though. Yet, this angel of light has such a huge following of flatterers - many have been deceived.


Ah, another insult - oops description. LOL - does anyone else find it funny that he says this after L Robinson deletes his account and after Mark Teater announces that he won't be posting anymore. Thankfully, I've done neither, and have I ever backed down from you, sir? No, sir - never have. I'm not saying you are Satan, by the way - but you are being used by the enemy. I think that in order to justify your website and the creation of the BB, you had to downplay all criticism of it as discouragement from the enemy. Consequently, you and your supporters now feel that you are infallible. Sir, work for the good of all and make sure that the Lord is what you're doing all this for.
- Matt

P.s. Your last post reminded me of scooby doo - that part in every episode where the bad guy shakes his fist and says "if it wasn't for you meddling kids.."

Mark and Daniel:
Do you know how difficult it is to regain any credibility one you have been demonstrated to deliberately take liberties with the truth? I stand somewhat surprised at how disappointed I am in you (after all I am the one according to you who should not care a whit about the St Loius folks). I expected better, everthing notwithstanding...perhaps Laurie was right...
Verne

I unregistered a few days ago simply because I felt all of this was going no where,and that I had made matters worse by opening my big mouth.  However, I re-registered in order to tell everyone that I talked to Tony this morning over the phone, and the misunderstanding is being cleared up.  Thanks Matt for sticking up for my fam, but to a certain degree the verbal flogging I have recieved is justifiable.  I certainly think that there may have been some self-assertion in their posts but the message certainly was clear.  I am not here to defend myself, but rather to set the record straight.

TO BRENT AND VERNE:

 I haven't been able to sort through the whole mess yet but here is what I am able to tell you from my end.  I WAS WRONG.  Tony told me this morning that he never said that Paul was kicked out due to homosexual tendicies.  I want all who read this to understand that after a lot of miscommunciation and false-assumptions (on my part) things are being fixed.  I apologize for any hurt that I may have caused due to rash thinking and a fiery temper.  I now seek only to use this BB to clear up any misunderstandings I may have caused and clear any reputations that need to be cleared: namely that of Tony Edwards.

Daniel Teater

Hi Everyone!
  I venture into these troubled waters to offer some practical guidlines that I hope might be helpful  :).
   I have been on several BB's in the past 12 years, other than this one, that have to do with the issue of cults/abusive churches.  At times I have noticed consistent difficulties on all of them when it comes to constructive discussion; difficulties which led to the abandonment of what had been a helpful participation.
  Good discussion does not mean the absence of debate or lively disagreement.  The problems arise when a poster makes a personal attack and than the offended recipient of the attack returns with a similar remark and then the thread is off to the mud-slinging races!
   The issues that surround the Assembly are one's that are very emotional for us, and I am certainly not asking anyone to suppress their feelings, but to improve the chances that their posts' are effective and persuasive.  If our goal is to change the thinking of others we will never achieve that by the use of name calling, as that only makes the other person defensive.
  If we are only trying to hurt others with our posts, because we have been hurt, then we need to be honest and humble enough to acknowledge these sins and find healing grace in Christ.
  "But Mark, you have talked about anger being a part of recovery?!" some may say.  Anger is a normal emotional reaction to being taken advantage of and abused.  I am not saying that it is the work of the Holy Spirit to create anger, but that it is the natural result of becoming aware of and sensitive to the evils of abuse (the anger of men does not work the righteousness of God).  
   Jesus and Paul became very angry with Pharisees and evil teachers, and they had some harsh things to say about them.  Yet, their anger came from an urgency to defend the truth of the Gospel, not from a personal defense of their hurt feelings(this would seem to define for us the difference between righteous indignation vs. sinful anger).  The defense of the Gospel is the championing of the little one's liberation from the toxic nature of false religion(the most noble cause to advance).

  What I believe can be helpful is if we post with the following in mind:

1.) Don't assume the motive of another poster. (We are told not to judge one another in this regard.)

2.) Don't attack another poster personally, (i.e. name calling etc.)

3.) Don't use the word "all" as in, "you always", etc. and when not refering to the facts of the Gospel use the phrase, "in my opinion". (the guide here is to use humility and tolerance when expressing our opinions.  What exactly happened in the hearts of Assembly leaders/members in far-flung Assemblies is beyond our human ability to correctly judge.  It is also impossible to judge the motives of those who defend the creation of the website/ BB.)

4.) Don't see individual posters as being  leaders/members of a conspiracy on the BB. (There are those who see conspiracies to defend the Assembly and others as conspiracies that intend to bring it down.  All of us here are victims, in one way or another, and as such we need to lift up our needy brethren here and not see them as enemies.)

  The key to a great post is one that is motivated by a loving concern for the other poster (even though we differ with them) and that seeks to minister the Gospel of the grace of God in what is said.  These posts' will have the most power, influence, healing power, and blessing for others here.  Remember there are a whole host of those who only read here and who are also looking for answers.
                                 God Bless,  Mark
 
   
   
   

Trying hard to be gracious but pray tell...what nasty things? Please post them for all to see...
Matt do you remember accusing me of starting the thread actually started by the sister in St Louis? I did not even bother to protest that false accusation. I will ask again- what nasty things on that thread did I say about Luke and Paul?    
    Please post...
Verne

Thank you Daniel.  This is a good start.

Will you tell us about St. Louis Sister?

Also, one thing about apologies that was dreadfully lacking in the Assembly, especially among the leaders, is clarity.

Vague admissions are not what the scripture is talking about, when it talks about confession and repentance.  

What you should do, according to the Bible, is say what you did, what you said, and how it was wrong.  Then you can apologize to people for something specific, in which case they know, beyond any doubt, that the matter is closed.

Example:  I told people that Tony was calling Paul a Homosexual.  I got this misinformation by_________, which was wrong on my part because__________.  I should have done_________.  Because of what I said and did, people wrongly thought___________.  I apologize for the pedantic nature of this paragraph, but we learned such a false idea of repentance under GG, that this sort of thing is necessary.

The lack of specifics makes it impossible for the person you sinned against to reconcile, because they aren't sure what you are apologizing for.  

Without going into details at this time,  what I am saying above is quite correct, in the scriptural sense.  

How about sharing with us some details?  I am ready to forgive you, as Tony is.  (He told me this, and I know he has been praying for all of you, night and day.)

Here are a few hints:

1.)  You said, "PM's to numerous people," amd "private message after private message was brought to light." Was this true?
2.)  You indicated that significat slander against your family was going on in St. Louis, from Tony.  Is this true?
3.)  What were your false assumptions?

This is the big one:

How did St. Louis Sister know about Tony's slander, when he didn't do it?  Am I wrong to assume that she must have heard it from you, or one of your cousins?  This needs to be cleared up.

Several posts from you, and your family, in which you do some real damage, and foment plenty of anger, bitterness, and everything else you accuse others of doing, followed by,

"I WAS WRONG," is still not quite right.  

Read the article on Biblical Repentance, on GA.com (AR.com), and you will understand where I am coming from.  ( I did not write the article, so please, no one start calling me God.)

Finally, yes I am trying to help you, and it seems that this matter is in the beginning stages of resolution.  Please don't stop short, but carry this through to completion.

Be Zealous and Repent!
Brent

Sigh....

Matt, have you read what Daniel Teater just posted?

There was a person who lived next to us a few years ago, who was a sex offender. (we moved with in weeks of finding out)  What this person did was horrible and sick.  When I referred to this person as a pedophile, I was not insulting him, but describing him.

When some comes in your house, and tracks dirt on the floor, because they didn't take the time to check their shoes, we may call them inconsiderate.  It is an accurate description.

Insults are not deserved.  Descriptions are.

I was gentle with Saint Louis Sister, because I assumed she was a real person.  When I found out otherwise, I changed my tone for obvious reasons.  If you think my anger was simply because she shared a PM, think again.  There was nothing in that PM that I hadn't already made perfectly clear publicly, in 50 or more posts.  My anger was directed at the fact that I realized that someone was being slandered, and that someone was manipulating us on the BB.

We wrestle not against flesh and blood, but when people are being used by the enemy, we must address them, in order to fight the one behind the scenes.  Also, I had already read the things that Tony had sent before I posted, so I had far more factual information about what I was doing than you did Matt.

I understand why you constantly attack me, and I am willing to be patient with you.  However, instead of insulting me, I would appreciate it if you would look at what I wrote, what others wrote, and then how this is turning out.

BTW, my comment on "McTheology," stands.  Poorly developed, misapplied arguments, made without actually reading the thing you are denouncing is tantamount to declaring a product defective, because the box it comes in looks like the box you used to store old rags.  If you don't look inside, you could be wrong.

We await your next round of ascribing to me omniscience, omnipotence, co-workings with Satan, arrogance, lying, being a leader of a conspiracy, etc.

Or, perhaps you could stop it and argue ideas?
Brent

Are we going to hear from Mark as well?  I don't think any of us would mind if he posted one or two more times, in order to restore Tony's reputation, which he clearly besmirched.  I also expect that he might want to take back several comments about me, where he call me a liar, when in fact what I said has proven accurate, and what he said is turning out to be false.

What of it Mark?  

Also, who is Saint Louis Sister?  Are you albe to tell us?

Brent

I am so proud of you I could just bust...!
Verne
p.s. Brent's advice is sound although a bit painful-what makes it valuable and perhaps needful is the public nature the discusions assumed. You should feel free to take time for reflection before proceeding (don't tell anyone but I've been there...)

Hi Verne

I've been there too, but I must take you to task on something.  Repentance is not painful.  The sense of release, and of knowing that all has been made right is wonderful.  It is only painful if we are forced to admit wrongdoing, but strive to tell as little as possible.  This sort of pride feels excruciating pain when any humility contacts the slug-like skin.  Forced humiliation is indeed difficult for the person who MUST repent, but not for the one who is ZEALOUS to repent.

Daniel,  be zealous and repent.  You are already forgiven, now be reconciled.

Brent

I'm reposting this post from a few days ago.  I thought it was very revealing of Brent Tr0ckman's real personality and unlying motives.  Whether his PM to the St. Louis sister was posted originally by mistake or by fault seems irrelevent at this point.  This time he was the Dragon that got painted red.  He wanted everyone to just go forward to new vistas of raking through other people's weakness, difficulties, and woes.  But I, for one, would like to take a pause here and REMEMBER what I saw that shocked me.

Hi Doctah--fake name--real person--previously registered under another name....

BTW, do you mean UNLYING motives, or UNDERLYING motives.  If you mean to say that I am NOT a liar, thank you.  If you are attempting to communicate some UNDERLYING, or HIDDEN motives, please feel free to do so.

Welcome.  What was it that shocked you in the post where STL sis, posted my private message to her?  BTW, she never wrote me back.

Was it the fact that she posted it?  Or was it the fact that I said something about the kids of the STL leaders?

I know that you are not new around here, so you are probably aware that I have had many words with the STL leaders' kids.  You may also have noticed that they were the ones who recently slandered Tony Edwards, and others.

So, what is it that shocks you?

Feel free to post any other PM's I may have written, in order to fully expose my UNLYING/UNDERLYING motive.  If you don't have any, I can lend you some.  Perhaps some of those I sent to the kids of the STL leaders?

Brent Tr0ckman--real name--real person--registered under my real name.

This is just a repost, so that it doesn't get buried underneath all the posts where people are angry with me.

Also, remember that Tony has admittedly been falsely accused.

Brent,

I meant to say "underlying" not unlying motives.  I think most readers would figure that one out, but I surely want to be accurate for your sake, Brent.  Btw, in the following quote, the word precedent, in the way it was used Brent, there should be an "s" at the end of precedent.  Just thought you might like to know this rule.

Good try, but I will not give you a chance to try to verbally "out-joust" me.  You are very good at "selling" your ideas and manipulating people, but I think the following speaks for itself.  It's the spirit behind it that is sooo disturbing, folks.   Listen closely and go back and reread posts previous and following to the one below.  Brent really embarrassed himself and rightly so.  It is apparent that he is familiar with speaking the way he did in the PM (below).  He speaks with others on a regular basis behind the scenes,  i.e. coaching, teaming up, discussing and coordinating strategies of attack against any who are moderate in their views.  He wages war against any who will not take a clear position with him.  

This particular sister surprised him by having her own genuine response and by not going along with his attempt to coach her.  If you ask me, this kind of "UNITY" is the worst of what I know of the assemblies.  The unity of the brethren from the scriptures gives the idea of simple love (which is God's love) and kindness and innocence and wisdom from above......not manipulative and strategic.  It appears that we have a new leadership keeping very quiet as to outward show, but is clearly quite organized behind the scenes.

Brent, it seems to me that you are upset with PM's being publicly shared  because this could happen again.  Someone could betray your conficences.  You were very remorseful in later posts over this uncontrollable practice of posting a PM.  Is it because you normally count on hiding your strategies and enjoying the planning of attacks with your soldiers without the scrutiny of unbiased minds?   And, as would be consistant with this spirit, you lump everyone together in your verbal attacks who does not rally to your personal views.  Your attacks are often against some of the greatest people one could possibly know.  





Btw, I doubt I will be posting again.  So say what you will.  I do, however, reserve the right to repost previous posts.

Hi there.  It seems as if you have missed the big news here.  Kids from STL slandered a guy named Tony Edwards, accusing him of doing all sorts of things, which he never did.  An anonymous poster attacked Jerry Robinson, and his kids, praised Verne and me, then changed their tune and did the exact opposite.  She then posted one (ONE) (1) of my PM's and you Saint Louis kids (you are one of them Doctah) seem to have forgotten that Daniel Teater admits that what he said about Tony was wrong, and you continue to jump all over me, for telling someone the truth, and that is that the ST. Louis Leadership's kids dish out nothing but abuse on the BB.  I don't mind saying it in public.  As for your assertion that there is a highly organized cabal behind the scenes, I am quite flattered, because the fact is that there is no such thing, but if it looks like it to you and your cousins, it implies that what I write packs a punch.  Thank you.

As for this:
I am not worried that this could happen again.  In fact, I am INVITING people to do this.  Please post my PM's on the board in order to make me look bad, or good.  I still have all the ones you sent me, Doctah, shall I post them?  I won't do it without your permission, buy you do have permission to post mine, including any email from me you might have in your possession.

Anyone who wants the entire contents of my outbox need only ask, and I'll send it to them.

I think we should have a thread where this post from ST. Louis Sister can be posted over and over and over, so that people can see how I control a vast, behind the scenes network, where we have a strategic and manipulative unity.

Do you have a problem with the way Tony Edwards was slandered by the "kids?"  Or is the fact that I declared the truth to someone in a PM a worse offense?

Brent

Such as...?
Verne

Brent,

I hate to break your heart, but I'm old enough to be your parent.  If someone grabs a parking place in front of you, do you suspect the "kids"?  If someone calls and wakes you up at night and it's a wrong number, do you think, oh it's those robinson "kids" again? They perhaps have lives.  Do you?

 He shall feed his flock like a shepherd: he shall gather the lambs with his arm, and carry them in his bosom, and shall gently lead those that are with young.
Isaiah 40:11
Verne

 :D :D :) :) :)  ROFL!!  Let me get this straight, you are old enough to be my parent?  Most people over sixty have better writing skills, and certainly thinks more clearly.  Also, when did I ever say anything about parking places, or being woken up with a wrong number?  

I am commenting on what the "kids" write on the BB, including the way they slandered Tony Edwards.  BTW, only one of them has made any attempt at an apology, the others are nowhere to be seen.  

I say we give them a pass, not worry about Tony, and the fact that his friends have heard all sorts of slanderous things about him, and concentrate on attacking me.  

Brent

BTW, I invite you to call me late tonite and wake me up.  Please do.  805 543 3440

You appear to be a well-spoken individual and I trust your coming to the BB has a constructive purpose. Would you share it with us?
Verne

After reading many posts is it fair to conclude that the banter displayed by some is a result of the original discussion that anyone who accepts a position of authority is responsible for how their leadership effected the lives of those entrusted them ?
 I ask 2 questions; Scripturely is leadership responsible or not responsible for the direction taken by those under their care ? and why / why not ?

Hi Mark

I would answer question 1 by saying that leadership is responsible for the direction taken by those under their care with the following condition:

If a person takes themselves out from under the leader's godly example, and refuses the leader's godly entreaty, then the leader is not responsible for the direction they take.

The converse is also true, to a certain extent.  If a leader gives false counsel to those under his charge, which is followed by those he leads, then he is responsible for the harm done to those under his care, who follow his lead.  There is a condition here as well, because we are never to place ourselves solely at the disposal of any man, but must always give Christ pre-eminence over our lives.  

If a person is a novice, very young or inexperienced, and is taken in by a bad leader, then I believe the leader bears the brunt of the responsiblility.  

However, if a person under a bad leader is lax, over a period of years, or has repeatedly ignored warnings, and has violated their conscience with regard to a bad leader's example, than the follower bears proportionally more blame than the purely deceived person in the first example.

Heb 13:17  Obey those who rule over you, and be submissive, for they watch out for your souls, as those who must give  account . Let them do so with joy and not with grief, for that would be unprofitable for you.

This passage says several things:
1.) We are to "obey" our leaders.  (another topic, what does obey mean?)
2.) Leaders are supposed to have our best interests involved.  They are supposed to watch out for our souls.  That is why we should listen to them.
3.) The leaders will give account to God for those under their care.
4.)If we give them undeserved grief, it is not profitable to us.

Nothing could be clearer, leaders must give account for the results of their leadership, namely the state of our souls.  Barring the conditions I mentioned above, and perhaps others that I have overlooked, I personally don't see how anyone can suggest that leaders are not accountable.

Brent

Mark,
Don't you find it interesting that Brent says Doctah can't be over 60 because of his/her writing skills?



You need a comma after "after reading many posts." The correct word is "affected" not "effected."

Short Grammar lesson:
to affect: to have an influence on.  Ex) His studying positively affected his grades.

an effect: something brought about by a cause or an agent. Ex) Studying a lot had a positive effect on his grades.

The word "effect" can be used as a verb, but this is extremely rare.
to effect: to bring into existence. His bad grades effected a desire to study more.

In short, you're safe to use "affect" as a verb only, and "effect" as a noun only.

My main purpose in correcting you here was to show Brent that age has very little to do with writing skills.


Sorry, Mark, you're a little behind. These questions have been thrown around on the "why leaders are responsible thread" for many weeks. I'd say it would behoove you to take a look at your own responsibility for once. I remember you posted something in which you blamed DG for the failed outreach that you started in the ghettos of STL. DG wasn't your boss, by the way. If you decided to continue having an outreach in the ghetto, did you think DG was going to physically prevent you from doing so? He's just a man, like you! So why did you give up on the outreach? Was DG your God and not the Lord almighty? That's a direct breach of a commandment - and you are the one responsible for that.

- Matt

Thanks Matt.  Point well taken.  You are 100% correct.

Did you read what Tony Edwards posted?  How about Daniel Teater's most recent post.  Do you have any comments about this?

Brent

In case you haven't seen it due to it being buried on the previous page, here it is:

Yes, Brent,
I do have some comments about the most recent posts. If Daniel felt he was responsible for misrepresenting Tony, that's fine, and I commend him for apologizing. However, that does not excuse your nasty comments to him and them (the other Lb kids). They are your brothers (in Christ, of course) and you treated them like the crud under your shoe. The only reason, too, was because Mark pointed out your arrogance and pride. It's apparent that your biggest fear is losing credibility. You seem to think that's the ultimate loss - which is why I imagine you tried to discredit me by saying I had a coach?

As for Tony,
He has asked me not to publically comment on his emails and I would have to do that to comment on his posts. He has assured me that things are being worked out in STL, and I'm glad for that. If someone slandered him by saying that he said Paul was gay, well I agree that they need to repent.

Are you happy, King Brent? I have obeyed you!
- Matt

Matt and Brent,
Thanks to both of you.
Matt thanks for making plain the difference between affect and effect, before posting I checked affected in the dictionary and it read "afflicted" which would not communicate my thought.
As far as repenting goes in my life ? Everyday !. How about you ?
Brent,
Thank you for the time you you spent answering my questions  plainly.
 Sincerely, Mark

??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ??? ???





Mark:
Why are you so extremely angry? What Daniel did was noble and I simply acknowledged and applauded it as a brother in Christ. Your unwarranted hostility and ugly portrayal of my motives in this regard is most unseemly. Too bad...
Verne

Here's the full email.  The context is after it t was said (by several people) that the leaership in St. Louis saw abuse between David and Judy.  Ken Teater wrote Judy a letter about this, in which he says that after hearing a commotion, he only saw David standing over Judy, straddling her.  Ken Teater says he did not see David smothering her.  I have no reason to doubt Ken, and I wrote this email to his son as my response.  If anyone cares, they can also find posts on the BB to that effect, but they are buried deep.

Here is the email that Mark quotes.  Please note how two-faced I am:

Hi Mark

Your brother answered very well.  I don't want to stir up trouble either,
and as far as I'm concerned, your dad was too young and inexperienced at the
time to be considered guilty.  The fact that he wrote the letter to Judy
exonerates him in my view.  The fact that your brother referenced the letter
online, exonerates your whole family.  You guys are not trying to hide
anything.  You will get no trouble from me on this issue.  I have known
about it for some time, yet I never said anything.  I have no reason to
change this policy now.

Praise God the Teater's are walking in the light!

Here's the next one, where my arrogance and lies surface.  Note how I attempt to manipulate Mark.

Mark
Please pray for me.  I need it.  This thing is not over, by a long shot.
Seriously, have the saints pray for me.

Brent
----- Original Message -----
From: "Mark Teater" <markteater@hotmail.com>
To: <Tr0ckmandc@sbcglobal.net>
Sent: Saturday, February 01, 2003 8:31 PM
Subject: Re: The BB


> Thank you for your caring e-mail.  I am truly thankful for your care and
> concern on this issue.  We are all for exposing the darkness that has
> covered the Geftakys ministry for years.  I honestly have to say God is
> doing GREAT things here in St. Louis.  We (St. Louis) are all in the word,
> and in prayer as to what way God is leading us.  Pray for us.  Thanks
again.
> Your Brother in Christ,
> Mark Teater
>
> _________________________________________________________________
> MSN 8 with e-mail virus protection service: 2 months FREE*
> http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus


Now you all see the way I communicate with people exposed.

Hey Mark,
 Brent's exposure of your email really speaks to his own foolishness - not yours. He really does manipulate into trusting him and he made you feel that he cared about you. Then he calls you such nice names as "snake" and "punkish young men" etc when you disagree with him on his handling of the BB and especially of the Tony Edwards and STL sister issue. He's not to be trusted and his handling of this thread has fortified my suspicion that he is not serving the Lord on this BB. Who are you serving Brent?

Hi Mark.

I long for the good old days.  For the record, the only thing I ever said about you, was in that PM.  I started to "dislike" you when you accused Tony Edwards.  It was actually written after you posted so vehemently about Tony Edwards.  Until then, I never mentioned you, let alone told people how I felt about you.  Others in your family were on the BB far more than you, and my comments were based more on their input, although I do view your recent activity as abusive.   I have other emails of correspondence between you and I, and others in STL.  Since you didn't refer to these, I won't share them.  I won't post your mail, or my mail to you, unless you do it first, as you have done.

As for me being manipulative, in order to get people to trust me,  I have long realized that due to the nature of what the Assembly was, I will receive mostly abuse from those i am trying to help.

It is not nearly as bad now as it was when all of you were serving GG, and were taken in by him.  Now, it feels like a birthday party, compared to then.  :)

Is there any other manipulative email that you would like to share?  (this is tongue in cheek, I am NOT angry.)

Matt, don't you have some?

Brent

I am reposting as I am still patiently waiting for a response from Matt. If you are going to recklessly throw out these kinds of accusations, you ought to be prepared to defend them with facts. Please indicate your previous basis for the allegations regarding nasty comments about the Robinson boys. You have me wondering about your credibility Matt...
Verne

At the request of Mark Teater, Im going to come foward. Im anonymous as Laurie because thats not my real name. I have no qualms about coming foward as the st. louis sister. I made that account up. I also made up the rumor about Tony saying Paul was gay. I received a forward of tonys email from someone else on this board that contained a lot of names from the leadership at the st. louis assembly, a lot of information about his health, and also mentioned the wedding. Luke believed me because I had this information about tony's health and i knew names, but I didnt know luke would spread it around. After telling luke this, it was clear that he told many people as people other than luke came on the board with this rumor. I mostly made up the comment to get Lukes goat by saying that people think his brother is gay. Luke and Mark now owe Tony an apology also for spreading the rumor before confirming with tony if its true or not. Mark also owes Brent an apology for his mistreatment. Mark Teater asked me to post this because I came "clean" so to speak with this information in an IM, and Mark wants to send the conversation to Brent. Now Brent can believe it when he gets the IM.
Love,
Laurie.

Verne,
Here is one nasty thing from the "why leaders are responsible" thread that i will directly quote you on:

I can remember more that i'm not going to look back through all the threads...something about diapers, some other belittling remarks like "pugnacious pup." You only mentioned that I accused you of making nasty remarks on the "why leaders are ..." thread anyway. It would be foolish of you to deny that you ever said nasty remarks to Luke and Paul. That would have me questioning your own credibility, sir.


I never accused you, by the way, of starting the sister in st. louis thread. You added that yourself. (remember that wild imagination of yours that we were talking about) I accused you of staring the "why leaders are responsible thread" based on the email that Tony Edwards sent you. (see the above quote...where did you garner that information?) Get the facts straight, sir. I'd ask for an apology for accusing you of starting the stl sister thread, and also for your denying that you ever said nasty things to Luke and Paul, but that would be asking too much. You're on Brent's side, so you are exempt from apologizing for anything =)

Lord bless.

- Matt

The above, everyone else, was in response to this post by verne:

Quote from: vernecarty on Today at  01:53:56pm    

Quote from: Matt on Today at  03:30:16am    
I was Verne-bashing when I asked him to apologize for saying those nasty things about Luke and Paul on the "why leaders are responsible thread."
 




Quote from: Matt on May 21, 2003, 02:25:19 pm    


Verne:
I am curious too. You say you are for healing and yet you did your best to damage Paul and Luke Robinson when they were on this BB. As their elder, you surely had a responsibility to set a good example for them, and you didn't, sir. Then you start a thread trying to discredit their parents based on the observations of a blind man - a man who has sent many false rumors out there about the Robinsons to random people not even involved in the St. Louis assembly (like the both of us for example). I guess it's no surprise that you'd be one of the first to post in this thread. You're going to be held accountable for hurting God's people, Verne.  





Trying hard to be gracious but pray tell...what nasty things? Please post them for all to see...
Matt do you remember accusing me of starting the thread actually started by the sister in St Louis? I did not even bother to protest that false accusation. I will ask again- what nasty things on that thread did I say about Luke and Paul?    
    Please post...
Verne
 


I am reposting as I am still patiently waiting for a response from Matt. If you are going to recklessly throw out these kinds of accusations, you ought to be prepared to defend them with facts. Please indicate your previous basis for the allegations regarding nasty comments about the Robinson boys. You have me wondering about your credibility Matt...
Verne

Mark, can you please lock this thread?  I think we are more than done with it.

Hopefully, we can resolve this properly on the new thread.  I think this St. Louis Sister affair is one of the darkest hours we have seen in this whole endeavor.

Brent

Mark,
Please don't lock it until verne responds to my post. Thanks!
- Matt

Dear Hearts, One and All,

     As it appears that Mark Campbell is garnering a well-deserved night's sleep, and Brent either doesn't want to wake him or doesn't have his phone # (i have it, Brent),
i will ask you to let this be the final post on this thread.

     Any further discussion regarding this topic should be addressed as follows (provided by Mark Teater):
--------------------------------------------------
For those of you wondering where the "other thread" is click here: http://www.briantucker.net/bb/index.php?board=6;action=display;threadid=421

It's in:
Any and All Topics
Topic: Resolving the "Saint Louis Sister" fiasco.
--------------------------------------------------
     Thanks for helping to bring a close to this thread.  Pray for and post upon the "other thread" to the end that Jesus Christ may be honored and injured saints healed.

al Hartman

As I thought...thanks for the response Matt, but I  must conclude based on this response that I for one have pursued this as far as is profitable...I do find it telling that having posted some of the things you have Matt, you of all people would have the temerity to take me to task for the above statements. I am not impressed...the Lord reserved His most strident criticism for hypocrites so forgive me if I find it difficult to take your reprimand on this subject too seriously - you lack credibility my friend...
Verne
p.s. I am not too concerned about the accusations you level against me Matt; I do suggest you publicly correct your libel of Tony Edwards...you are clearly not as keen a judge of character as you imagine...

To All! :)

  I am now awake and will lock this thread as commanded!

                       God Bless,  Mark