Disappointing--final posts from longtime users

[Arthur]

In regards to recent (like the past three months or so) posts:

Ah, ok I see now.

This just confirms to me that the time for this board has passed.  I think it had a good beginning, but I can't see that it does much good now.

I'm disappointed--I was hoping to ask more questions...but, I'm not sure that I would listen much to answers from people who can't stop fighting amonst themselves.

Have you noticed that a lot of good people have left?  Only a few people are posting now and it's mostly garbage strife.  I don't know about you, but I tend to not gaze into my garbage can and talk about its contents with my friends.  I just leave my garbage can there in the corner and every once in a while toss garbage into it.  

Hey, if your guys' idea of a good time is endless argueing...then by all means continue to your hearts delight.  But that's not for me.  

There isn't just gunfights in the hall of this hospital.  This hospital has become a theatre of urban warfare. This is where people buy tickets to see WWF matches.  It's a spectacle.  

Well, I hope you can learn to stop bickering and instead focus on helping people.   Good luck in life.

Once again frustrated at what I see in my fellow man,
Arthur

Update: After going back and actually reading the "garbage", I found that it wasn't all just pointless argueing.  I found that people like Brent and Verne were stating and standing for the truth, and being maligned for it.  Because of this, I decided to join the "spectacle" and state where I stand.  Of course, it didn't change much, so I guess I may still be moving on.  

[Joe Sperling]

Arthur/Verne---

I hope you don't leave the BB for good. I've enjoyed many of your posts very much. I feel this BB can still be a place of great profit and fellowship for all. I hope to see many more posts in the future from both of you.

Take care and God bless,  Joe

[editor]

Hello/goodbye everyone.

I have really been in prayer and counsel about this, and have decided that this will be my final post on the BB.

Until this morning, I wasn't even planning on saying anything, but simply walking away, but I thought better of it, and decided to let people know why.

The purpose of the BB was intitially to expose the unfruitful works of darkness.  Mission accomplished.  I handed it over to Brian Tucker, and began posting as a "normal" member, although with a higher profile and more "gravitas" than the average user.

The new mission, at least in my mind, was supposed to be for healing.  Mission impossible.  (Don't try to tell me that with God all things are possible.  That fact doesn't mean that God does everything.  There's plenty of stuff He doesn't do.)

I tried taking 6 weeks off, which helped a little. Things got absolutely horrible with the St. Louis Sister thing, and then seemed to get better for a while.  Things actually looked really good over the last 2 weeks, and then, sure enough they blew apart again.

Every time we have engaged in meaningful discussion, and especially when it has been edifying, someone comes along and derails the process.  There are some who are of "Brent," others who are of "the twelve," and others still who are "of Christ."  I am quoting 1 Corinthians here, and in this context I do not say "I am of Christ," as a compliment.  The most recent faction to arrive on the scene is the "I am of Christ," faction, which is the worst of the bunch.

Basically what we have here are a handful of people posting, with a few onlookers.  We are unable to rise above phony tolerance, and vapid thought processes for more than a day or two.  Whenever someone says something edifying about the Lord Jesus, it is largely ignored.

If someone says something true about the Assembly, or its teaching, they are criticised in the basest manor, and the topic gets thrown back into the ditch.  We are blind followers of blind guides.  Yep, we are pharisees.  I include myself in this description.  I even wrote a paper about it.

Jesus advice is to "leave them alone."  Matt 15:14

The latest thing to hit the BB, is the worst yet, in my opinion.  In this case, the answer is not to fight, but to leave them alone.  That's what I intend to do.

People can say whatever they want about me, and I fully expect someone to say, "As soon as he had any opposition, he left."  In anticipation of this, I would just remind everyone that when I started this, I faced far more opposition, from far more people than any of you could imagine.  The warfare was intense, but God strengthened me, on your behalf.  If I was the type to fold under pressure, I would have done so long before now.  I am not facing any opposition worth mentioning at present, compared to before, but what I am facing is a dullness and pharisaical spirit that will not hear or see.  So, I am not going to try talking anymore.

Another accusation that may be leveled at me is along the lines of our recent disaster, where come claim there are "shepherds who are supposed to know better."  Indeed, there are.  As one of them, I am hoping to take the lead by getting you out of here.  Everything you need to know about the false, unholy system that George Geftakys erected, and which you all serve(d) is to be found on the website, and in the older posts on this BB.  Avail yourselves of them, and the wisdom they contain.  There is no sense repeating things over and over to people who plug their ears, and cover their eyes, and won't let themselves read the truth.  You are free to drift wherever you will.

Prov 9:8
Prov 17:10
Prov 19:25
Prov 24:25--I can really testify to this one.

2 Tim 4:2  Preach the word! Be ready in season [and] out of season. Convince,  rebuke , exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3  For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, [because] they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers;  4  and they will turn [their] ears away from the truth, and be turned aside to fables.  5  But you be watchful in all things, endure afflictions, do the work of an evangelist, fulfill your ministry.

The time has come on this BB, and I am done.

Titus 1:13  This testimony is true. Therefore  rebuke  them sharply, that they may be sound in the faith,  14  not giving heed to Jewish fables and commandments of men who turn from the truth.

and finally there is this:

Titus 2:10  Reject a divisive man after the first and second admonition,  11  knowing that such a person is warped and sinning, being self-condemned.

What has happened here is that some of you have coddled and encouraged the warped and sinning, when you should have rejected them.  The consequence for this is that whatever "could have been," shall never be.

There are hundreds of people who have been permanently scarred by George Geftakys and his doctrines.  The community here is in a unique position to help them; I would venture to say that we are the only ones who really understand and can address the errors from the standpoint of experience.  Sadly, this benefit has been forfeited due to the blind arrogance that is concealed in misplaced compassion and foolish tolerance.

I will not be writing here again, but please know that I am praying for you all, and will always be available in person, on the phone, or by email.  You may reject my warnings, and besmirch my character as much as you like, but I can say that my hands are clean in this matter, and I have been faithful to my ministry in this regard.

Brent Tr0ckman

[Matt]

 Arthur, why was your post edited by Brent Tr0ckman? Are you one of Brent's aliases? Just curious...

- Matt


 Disappointing--final posts from longtime users
« Reply #4 on: Today at 12:12:20pm »  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
In regards to recent (like the past three months or so) posts:

Ah, ok I see now.  

This just confirms to me that the time for this board has passed.  I think it had a good beginning, but I can't see that it does much good now.

I'm disappointed--I was hoping to ask more questions...but, I'm not sure that I would listen much to answers from people who can't stop fighting amonst themselves.

Have you noticed that a lot of good people have left?  Only a few people are posting now and it's mostly garbage strife.  I don't know about you, but I tend to not gaze into my garbage can and talk about its contents with my friends.  I just leave my garbage can there in the corner and every once in a while toss garbage into it.  

Hey, if your guys' idea of a good time is endless argueing...then by all means continue to your hearts delight.  But that's not for me.  

There isn't just gunfights in the hall of this hospital.  This hospital has become a theatre of urban warfare. This is where people buy tickets to see WWF matches.  It's a spectacle.  

Well, I hope you can learn to stop bickering and instead focus on helping people.  Good luck in life.

Once again frustrated at what I see in my fellow man,
Arthur
 
« Last Edit: Today at 05:14:49pm by B. Tr0ckman »
 

[sfortescue]

Arthur, why was your post edited by Brent Tr0ckman?

- Matt

Answer:
Brent Tr0ckman can(could) edit anybody's post he wants(wanted) to, because he is(was) the administrator.

[sfortescue]

It seems that lately several people have been giving up.  This has been happening in stages.  First, a person will give up on manners, then, after a while composure, next, rationality goes, and finally, the person will give up on posting anything at all.

I wonder why.  The "Saint Louis Sister" fiasco was caused by inflamatory private messages and emails sent by an outsider intent on causing mischief.  I'm wondering if something like this is happening again.  Have the various combatants in this latest brawl been receiving private messages or emails from an outsider goading them to fight?

I am of the opinion that private messages and emails from outsiders or other people who are not very well known should be considered suspect and of questionable validity.  I also believe that outsiders should not be given any information via private messages or emails.

Remember the old saying, divide and conquer.  This BB does good by helping to unite God's people through communication.  The devil doesn't like that.  That is why he takes measures to encourage and enhance conflict.  That is why he took measures to alienate from this BB the Robinsons & co.  It looks like he is still at work with hopes of shutting down the BB completely.  Opposition from the devil is evidence that the BB is doing good.

Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.  Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.  For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of the darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places.  Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Stand therefore, having your loins girt about with truth, and having on the breastplate of righteousness; And your feet shod with the preparation of the gospel of peace; Above all, taking the shield of faith, wherewith ye shall be able to quench all the fiery darts of the wicked.  And take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God:

Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints; And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel, For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.  Eph. 6:10-20

The armor:
1. Be honest
2. Do what's right
3. Proclaim the good news of peace with God
4. Believe that God rewards those who seek him
5. Hope and quietly wait for the salvation of the Lord
6. Speak the Truth in love

Pray before you post.  Try to avoid repetition.  Posts remain in the BB database so there isn't much need for it.

[Joe Sperling]

Stephen---

I think you're right. There has always been a little conflict on the bUlletin Board---but most of the time it has been constructive. When some "bickering" breaks out we can learn from it, put it behind us, and be brothers in the Lord as "dear children of God".

I remember Jesus at the well. He told the woman "He that drinks of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst,
but the water I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life".(John 4).

The water that flows up in us is not intended just for us, but that others might come and drink. We are supposed to be a blessing to one another, and the water of life in us should make unbelievers around us thirsty for what we have.

I know, I too have been guilty on this BB in the past of some "bickering" myself, but I really did learn from it and am
still learning. I think when these outside influences come in and we can see that they are "purposefully" trying to cause strife we should ignore them.

This BB is intended for fellowship, and to help those escaping the Assembly to be healed. When someone comes in defending the very system that hurt so many that should put a red flag up in front of us. They are free to state "their opinion" but they should rather be ignored rather than "backed up" by those who have escaped that system of legalism. Why encourage them to continue?

There was a person named John who used to come into the Bulletin Board for the very purpose of causing strife and division. After he was largely ignored and felt no one was listening, he left and hasn't returned since. I feel this Bulletin Board can continue to be a blessing for all. As we share the things the Lord has taught us, and help others who have escaped false teachings, that water that flows out from us will be fulfilling it's purpose. Because the Lord never blesses us just for us, but to be a blessing to others.

Thanks for your wise observation Stephen.

God bless,  Joe

[sfortescue]

Outsiders are those who have never been in an assembly and don't even have any interest in the message of Christianity.  I don't consider Matt to be an outsider, but he does make the moderator's job difficult.

[vernecarty]

I realize there are many on this BB who view their calling as one to be ministers of grace. I would remind every reader that God’s work of recovery entails not only the ministry of grace, but also the proclamation of truth:

And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
John 8:32

  And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
John 1:14  

The basis of all the Adversary does is deception:

When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
John 8:44

I  have determined to make this my last post as I have concluded that the spirit of deception has reached a new zenith on the BB. What is one to make of  a self-styled “minister of grace” taking the remarks of a long-standing BB member of established repute, willfully and maliciously out of context, for the express purpose of impugning that individual's integrity and with absolutely no regard to the truth of what has been asserted or the context in which the comments occurred? It is clear that my task here is at an end.

I would remind all readers, that it was truth, not grace, that was the casualty that led to the untold sorrow and misery visited upon countless lives decimated by the ministry of George Geftakys, and his enablers. It was the death of truth, not grace, that resulted in the unspeakable blasphemy of things most holy, and the bringing of shameful reproach upon the name of Christ by that so-called ministry. It was the death of truth, not grace, that allowed so many who knew full well what was taking place, yet stood silently by while many suffered torment, ship-wreck of their faith, and some took their very lives.
Those of you who would sacrifice truth on the altar of compassion, hear what the word of God says to you:

When I say unto the wicked, O wicked man, thou shalt surely die; if thou dost not speak to warn the wicked from his way, that wicked man shall die in his iniquity; but his blood will I require at thine hand.
Ezekiel 33:8
Woe unto them that call evil good, and good evil; that put darkness for light, and light for darkness; that put bitter for sweet, and sweet for bitter!  Woe unto them that are wise in their own eyes, and prudent in their own sight!
Isaiah 5:20,21a

It s my sad conclusion that the BB has ceased to be place where not only grace, but also truth prevails. It is a place I no longer care to be. Those of you who know me, I do not have to justify my position to you- the day will declare it. I have no greater joy than to hear that God’s people are walking in the truth - beware all those who seduce you with the notion that it can be lightly sacrificed on any altar.

May the God of all grace keep to the time of the end, those who have truly been bought with the precious blood of His dear Son, our risen, reigning Lord Jesus Christ.

Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth.
John 17:17


In the eternal joy of HIs service,
Verne

[vernecarty]

On clear instructions from my Lord and Master, one final post is required.
While I do not believe anything I have posted on this BB is untrue, not everything I have posted has been charitable. Frequently in my haste to join the battle, I have not always followed the Biblical admonition:
Let your speech be alway with grace, seasoned with salt..
Colossians 4:6

Upon careful reflection, there are a number of you whom I offended and therfore must humbly ask your forgiveness. This must be done publicly and not privately as I intended to do.
Therefore, Matt, MGov, Al Hartman, Luke and Paul Robinson, Mark and Daniel Teater, Affriming and any others that I fail to name,  I humbly ask you to forgive the sometimes harsh tone of my commentary and pray for me that God would give me a heart truly like His. I am praying that God would graciously teach me to always speak the truth in love.
God richly bless and goodbye all...
In Christ,
Verne

[al Hartman]

Dear Verne and all,

     You were forgiven before you asked, dear Brother, but thank you for the public statement.  It means a lot to many.

     There are two sides to each of us:  a BC (Before Christ) persona and a DD (Day of our Lord) character.  The latter is the new creation which we became through Jesus Christ's completed work in his life, death, burial, resurrection, transfiguration, and ascention.  That person is perfect, lacking nothing, and no apology is ever necessary for his behavior.
     But our BC person is an atrocity, a dead and decaying, stinking mess that can cling to us only because it dwells in our flesh:  the old sin-polluted body which goes with us everywhere, and shall until the Lord presents us with a new, glorified body to replace it, thus completing the manifestation of our complete redemption in him.
     Before we were born again by receiving Christ by grace through faith, we had built up quite a history with our "old man," our carnal (fleshly) persona:  We had established a plethora of behavior patterns, or habits.  Those did not go away when we accepted Christ.  They are still part and parcel with this body of sin which we drag around with us like Jacob Marley's chains.
     BUT-- Hallelujah!  They are no part of the new man which we have become in Christ, in whom we are hid from all the sinfulness of our past!  And now we study to learn Christ, that we may know him, love him and allow him to express himself to, in and through us.  Which involves also learning that the old sinful nature which clings so tenaceously to our earth-bound bodies has no authority by which to manifest itself in us.
     The intercourse between the redeemed is not of the old creation, the flesh, but is of the spirit, the new creation in Christ Jesus.
     But we don't always readily distinguish between the voices we hear.  Sometimes our reaction to a situation is so powerful, that we only hear one voice and, as we are Christians, we assume it to be the right voice.  Sometimes it is not.  BUT, because Christ lives in us, to will and to do his good pleasure, making us eternally grateful for so great salvation, giving us the DESIRE to hear the voice of the Lord, he speaks to us, and we hear him, even if it is after the fact.
     And WHAT do we hear?  Accusation?  Condemnation?  Pain and suffering because of our lapse, our failure?
NO!  We hear the powerful but loving voice of our savior, instructing us how to go on, to continue in our walk with him, because all was forgiven at Calvary.
     What is the mark of a godly man?  Is it that God speaks to him?  No, the Lord speaks to all of us, if we will but hear his voice.  But the sign of a godly man is that he hears the voice of God, he listens, and he obeys, no matter what that entails.  It is not an easy thing to apologize after having taken a strong stand.  But it is a godly thing, and worthy of recognition and appreciation.

Gratefully, in the love of Christ,
al Hartman

[Arthur]

Dear Verne and all,

You were forgiven before you asked, dear Brother, but thank you for the public statement. It means a lot to many.

Al, it would mean a lot to many if you were to apologize for interrupting our discussion in the "Does Hebrew 10:24-25 Really Say That Christians Must Go To Church?"  

As for the rest of the post--it's been awhile since I've been under the influence of assembly false-teachings, and I needed a translator to understand what Al wrote.  I looked through the Mantra of Jabez and Seven Habits of Highly Effective Cult-Leaders (aka, how to turn CEO's into Mormons) but could find nothing.  I even searched Getting Money by Selling Faux Spiritual Books to Gullible People is My Purpose-Driven Life, and still found nothing.  Not until I turned to The Mystical Christian Life by Nee did I find a useful bridge.

    There are two sides to each of us:  a BC (Before Christ) persona and a DD (Day of our Lord) character.  The latter is the new creation which we became through Jesus Christ's completed work in his life, death, burial, resurrection, transfiguration, and ascention.  That person is perfect, lacking nothing, and no apology is ever necessary for his behavior.
     But our BC person is an atrocity, a dead and decaying, stinking mess that can cling to us only because it dwells in our flesh:  the old sin-polluted body which goes with us everywhere, and shall until the Lord presents us with a new, glorified body to replace it, thus completing the manifestation of our complete redemption in him.
     Before we were born again by receiving Christ by grace through faith, we had built up quite a history with our "old man," our carnal (fleshly) persona:  We had established a plethora of behavior patterns, or habits.  Those did not go away when we accepted Christ.  They are still part and parcel with this body of sin which we drag around with us like Jacob Marley's chains.
     BUT-- Hallelujah!  They are no part of the new man which we have become in Christ, in whom we are hid from all the sinfulness of our past!  And now we study to learn Christ, that we may know him, love him and allow him to express himself to, in and through us.  Which involves also learning that the old sinful nature which clings so tenaceously to our earth-bound bodies has no authority by which to manifest itself in us.

Translation:
     There are two sides to each of us:  a BA(Before Assembly) persona and a SDEALTA(Still Delusional Even After Leaving The Assembly) character.  The latter is a new rendition of age-old hypocrisy, spiritual darkness and counterfeit Christianity, which we took on while in the assembly through the deceptive work of George Geftakys--his horrible example, false teachings, spiritual abuse and the list goes on.  That person is haughty and unrepentant, always thinks everything is spiritual and believes himself to be a master among spiritual babes, and no apology is ever necessary for his behavior.  
      But our BA persona is an attrocity, a totally unspiritual, worldly wretch that could never understand higher spiritual mumbo jumbo apart from the assembly.  There is still some of the BA in us that clings to us and tries to get us to no longer become delusional.  It will go with us everywheres, lurking in the shadows waiting to jump out and make us see things clearly.  And it shall continue to do so until the day that the assembly starts meeting again and a new leader is setup who will establish a new, glorified assembly--one that will totally purge us of our ability to reason and think that just maybe we are being deceived.

You see, dear saints, the fleshly BA persona can never grasp spiritual concepts such as:
-we are a "new creation" in Christ Jesus "perfect, lacking nothing"... yet we carry our old sin-polluted bodies with us everywhere.
-Hallelujah! our old behavior patterns and habits are "no part of the new man."  Unfortunately..."they did not go away when we accepted Christ."
-though it was "by grace through faith" that we were born again, we need "to study to learn Christ that we may know him, love him and allow him to express himself to, in and through us." What's more, we need to learn the "old sinful nature which clings so tenaceously to our earth-bound bodies has no authority by which to manifest itself in us."

I'm going to tell it to you straight, dear friends.  You cannot learn these things unless you are delusio...I mean spiritual.  I know, to the natural man, all these things sound like contradictions and double-talk.  If only you had the capacity to understand that good is evil and evil is good!  You need to be spiritual like I am, can't you see that?!  What the <censored> is the matter with you people, can't you see that I'm spiritual?!!  

    The intercourse between the redeemed is not of the old creation, the flesh, but is of the spirit, the new creation in Christ Jesus.
     But we don't always readily distinguish between the voices we hear.  Sometimes our reaction to a situation is so powerful, that we only hear one voice and, as we are Christians, we assume it to be the right voice.  Sometimes it is not.  BUT, because Christ lives in us, to will and to do his good pleasure, making us eternally grateful for so great salvation, giving us the DESIRE to hear the voice of the Lord, he speaks to us, and we hear him, even if it is after the fact.
     And WHAT do we hear?  Accusation?  Condemnation?  Pain and suffering because of our lapse, our failure?
NO!  We hear the powerful but loving voice of our savior, instructing us how to go on, to continue in our walk with him, because all was forgiven at Calvary.
     What is the mark of a godly man?  Is it that God speaks to him?  No, the Lord speaks to all of us, if we will but hear his voice.  But the sign of a godly man is that he hears the voice of God, he listens, and he obeys, no matter what that entails.  It is not an easy thing to apologize after having taken a strong stand.  But it is a godly thing, and worthy of recognition and appreciation.

Gratefully, in the love of Christ,
al Hartman

Translation:
     When we, the redeemed, talk to each other, we don't talk in the flesh but in the spirit...well, most of the time.   But sometimes we mess up and become unspiritual for a brief moment in time.  What happens is we put the body of sin back on and are fleshly again.  I know the Bible says that the body of sin was destroyed but somehow we carry it around with us so it is always there--kinda like dirty socks lying on the bedroom floor.  But then, much like the Incredible Hulk reverting back to David Banner, the flesh goes away and we quickly become spiritual again and have to repent of being in the flesh.
      During the brief time that we are in the flesh, we hear voices in our heads, but not the voice of Jesus.  After the flesh-minute is over, we hear Jesus' voice once again and he is the one who tells us to repent of that flesh-quickie.  The reason we hear Jesus is because he lives in us...I guess he goes to sleep or leaves our bodies for the brief flesh-break, I dunno. When he's back, we DESIRE to hear the voice of the Lord again and then he speaks to us, and we'll listen because he tells us there is no condemnation for whatever we did during the flesh-fest.
I'm telling ya straight, saints, THAT is the mark of a goldy man!



And THAT is a bunch of nonsense that we were all taught in the assembly.  I'm sorry it has to be this way, Al.  Your post warrants this type of response similar to Verne being accurate when he called the boys "morons".  

Arthur

[Matt]

Al, it would mean a lot to many if you were to apologize for interrupting our discussion in the "Does Hebrew 10:24-25 Really Say That Christians Must Go To Church?"  

Al, what Arthur is saying is that you should apologize for taking brent and lurker to task for their abusive behavior. Arthur, of course, wouldn't be saying anything if you had limited your criticism to just me. It's so sad to see Arthur in this kind of bondage to a man. First he was bonded to GG, and now to Brent. As he at one time thought GG was infallible and above reproach, he now thinks Brent is. I pray that he will stop putting himself in bondage to men and will look to the Lord.

 

Translation:
     There are two sides to each of us:  a BA(Before Assembly) persona and a SDEALTA(Still Delusional Even After Leaving The Assembly) character.  The latter is a new rendition of age-old hypocrisy, spiritual darkness and counterfeit Christianity, which we took on while in the assembly through the deceptive work of George Geftakys--his horrible example, false teachings, spiritual abuse and the list goes on.  That person is haughty and unrepentant, always thinks everything is spiritual and believes himself to be a master among spiritual babes, and no apology is ever necessary for his behavior.  
      But our BA persona is an attrocity, a totally unspiritual, worldly wretch that could never understand higher spiritual mumbo jumbo apart from the assembly.  There is still some of the BA in us that clings to us and tries to get us to no longer become delusional.  It will go with us everywheres, lurking in the shadows waiting to jump out and make us see things clearly.  And it shall continue to do so until the day that the assembly starts meeting again and a new leader is setup who will establish a new, glorified assembly--one that will totally purge us of our ability to reason and think that just maybe we are being deceived.

You see, dear saints, the fleshly BA persona can never grasp spiritual concepts such as:
-we are a "new creation" in Christ Jesus "perfect, lacking nothing"... yet we carry our old sin-polluted bodies with us everywhere.
-Hallelujah! our old behavior patterns and habits are "no part of the new man."  Unfortunately..."they did not go away when we accepted Christ."
-though it was "by grace through faith" that we were born again, we need "to study to learn Christ that we may know him, love him and allow him to express himself to, in and through us." What's more, we need to learn the "old sinful nature which clings so tenaceously to our earth-bound bodies has no authority by which to manifest itself in us."

I'm going to tell it to you straight, dear friends.  You cannot learn these things unless you are delusio...I mean spiritual.  I know, to the natural man, all these things sound like contradictions and double-talk.  If only you had the capacity to understand that good is evil and evil is good!  You need to be spiritual like I am, can't you see that?!  What the <censored> is the matter with you people, can't you see that I'm spiritual?!!  

You call that a translation?! I call that completely rewriting what Al was trying to say. Al could have summed up what he was saying into a few lines. That's kind of underhanded, trying to twist around what he was saying merely to take a jab at Al. In fact, he wrote this commending Verne for repenting on the bb of his abusive behavior to those individuals he named. Before you call Al to repent, let's see you repent for your abusive behavior on the bb.

Translation:
     When we, the redeemed, talk to each other, we don't talk in the flesh but in the spirit...well, most of the time.   But sometimes we mess up and become unspiritual for a brief moment in time.  What happens is we put the body of sin back on and are fleshly again.  I know the Bible says that the body of sin was destroyed but somehow we carry it around with us so it is always there--kinda like dirty socks lying on the bedroom floor.  But then, much like the Incredible Hulk reverting back to David Banner, the flesh goes away and we quickly become spiritual again and have to repent of being in the flesh.
      During the brief time that we are in the flesh, we hear voices in our heads, but not the voice of Jesus.  After the flesh-minute is over, we hear Jesus' voice once again and he is the one who tells us to repent of that flesh-quickie.  The reason we hear Jesus is because he lives in us...I guess he goes to sleep or leaves our bodies for the brief flesh-break, I dunno. When he's back, we DESIRE to hear the voice of the Lord again and then he speaks to us, and we'll listen because he tells us there is no condemnation for whatever we did during the flesh-fest.
I'm telling ya straight, saints, THAT is the mark of a goldy man!

How sad, Arthur. You have stooped so low as to attack perfectly good preaching. You say that was a bunch of nonsense taught in the assembly? That's a basic mainstream Christian message that Al had. And the only thing delusional was your twisting everything he said into some psychopathic looking scrawlings in the notebook of a loony frenchie.

And THAT is a bunch of nonsense that we were all taught in the assembly.  I'm sorry it has to be this way, Al.  Your post warrants this type of response similar to Verne being accurate when he called the boys "morons".  

Arthur

From your mouth to God's ears...

And this last quote shows that you weren't glorifying Lord or edifying His people, but merely writing out of bitterness and attempting to take a jab at Al, me, and whoever the other "boys" are that you are referring to. The hypocrisy is out of control. After this last post, Arthur, it will be very hard to take you seriously ever again. Let's not ever hear you complain about how you were treated in the assembly again until you yourself stop abusing other people.

- Matt

[Arthur]

Al, what Arthur is saying is that you should apologize for taking brent and lurker to task for their abusive behavior. Arthur, of course, wouldn't be saying anything if you had limited your criticism to just me. It's so sad to see Arthur in this kind of bondage to a man. First he was bonded to GG, and now to Brent. As he at one time thought GG was infallible and above reproach, he now thinks Brent is. I pray that he will stop putting himself in bondage to men and will look to the Lord.

Al, what Matt is saying is that he doesn't really understand what I wrote, but he has a vague awareness that I wrote some irrefutable truth about the destructive nature of the assembly and George's false teachings.  Since he is unable to refute the truth of what was written, he is attacking the person who wrote it by trying a little reversal that, although cute, is a wee bit on the unconvincing side.  Reminiscent of the Robinson boys, wouldn't you say?

Matt, maybe you can explain to us all how it is that you know more about what went on in the assembly than Tom Maddux?  You were in there for a couple of years in San Diego, right?  Surely that gives you quite a vantage point far exceeding Tom's to tell him that he doesn't know what he's talking about.  What does being 18 years in the Fullerton assembly--most of which as a leading brother and worker--matter...right? What does having 15 years being out to reflect give him over anybody else with a quick witt and a sharp mind...right Matt?

Anything else you want to add Matt?  Maybe Al wants to say something about how we all should coddle and listen to you.  Anything spiritual you want to add Al?  Maybe we're all stepping into the flesh here for a moment...funny, I don't hear any voices, do you Al?
Maybe we should all just let the truth go down the toliet and join back up with the assembly?  Waddya say?!  

Stop sticking up for the lie.

Arthur

[Matt]

Al, what Matt is saying is that he doesn't really understand what I wrote, but he has a vague awareness that I wrote some irrefutable truth about the destructive nature of the assembly and George's false teachings.  Since he is unable to refute the truth of what was written, he is attacking the person who wrote it by trying a little reversal that, although cute, is a wee bit on the unconvincing side.  Reminiscent of the Robinson boys, wouldn't you say?

Oh, let's talk trash about the Robinson boys after they delete their accounts. Nice one, big guy. What do you mean refute the truth of what you wrote? The truth was in Al's preaching - not in your 'translations' of Al's preaching. What you wrote didn't even look like it was written by someone coherent - of course I don't understand it. Yes, we were taught that we "cannot learn things unless we were delusional." And also using <censored> words is ok to demand that people recognize we were spiritual.

As for your second point, you think the assembly taught that Jesus "falls asleep" or "takes a break" while we are sinning? No, sir - that's ridiculous.

Matt, maybe you can explain to us all how it is that you know more about what went on in the assembly then Tom Maddux?  You were in there for a couple of years in San Diego, right?  Surely that gives you quite a vantage point far exceeding Tom's to tell him that he doesn't know what he's talking about.  What does the 18 years in the Fullerton--most of which as a leading brother and worker--matter...right? What does having 15 years being out to reflect give him over anybody else with a quick witt and a sharp mind...right Matt?

So emotional, Arthur. The problem with Tom Maddux's post is that he is trying to accuse honest, hard-working LB's of abusing the saints, just because he abused the saints. He also has a funny idea of financial exploitation. If the saints freely gave after being told only that their money was for "work here and abroad," then that was enough accounting to satisfy them. AND no one was ever forced to give their money. So, just because he was a worker, doesn't mean he has infallible logic.

Anything else you want to add Matt?  Maybe Al wants to say something about how we all should coddle and listen to you.  Anything spiritual you want to add Al?  Maybe we're all stepping into the flesh here for a moment...funny, I don't hear any voices, do you Al?
Maybe we should all just let the truth go down the toliet and join back up with the assembly?  Waddya say?!  

Stop sticking up for the lie.

Arthur

I have been so coddled on this bb, the kindness is killing me, Arthur! The ex-assemblyites have been such great examples for me, luke and paul, affirming, etc. The ex-assemblyites treat us in the same way they complained about being treated - and then expect to be taken seriously.  It's chilling to see someone so deceived. Honestly, Arthur, don't place a man as your idol. Brent is just a man, just like GG was. You don't need to idolize a man. You need to trust in the Lord.